GA - Suspicion over heat death of Cooper, 22 mo., Cobb County, June 2014, #7

[Karmady]

Huh? It's behind the passenger seat, unless the car was made for a European market that has a steering wheel on the right. They show the seat both forward facing and rear facing on the webpage. The pink one shown is behind the driver's seat

http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2012/07/2012-hyundai-tucson-car-seat-check.html

ok, behind the passenger seat. Doesn't really matter. The pic is from the rear driver door perspective and the car seat in this case was in the center position with the view, afawk, from the driver's door. Like I said, I'm quite sure there will be a mock up of the actual carseat position in the vehicle and that it will convince no one that they are wrong about their pov on this lol

 

[Chewy]

I wonder if he had any pictures of Cooper on his desk or the walls of his office/cubicle or on his work computer as a screensaver. Anything that could have jogged his memory during his workday that he had left his son in the car.

The problem with this, is that most people who defend forgetting your kid in the car will say that in his mind the child was in daycare. He could have thought of the child all day and even have spoken to his wife about him but if he thought he was in daycare it wouldn't have registered.

I'm intrigued by the lengths to which people will go to in order to defend this guy in this case. It's very telling to me that even with an arrest for murder people just don't want to hold him responsible. And the reason they don't is because of all the cases that happened before where the others were not arrested. When you only have a 50% conviction rate and you have men averaging 3 years in prison for doing this, then you are setting up a situation that is very dangerous to children.

This is why I believe that in every case the parent should be charged for negligence. Not murder but negligence. Yes people forget. We all forget things as parents, we all make mistakes as parents. Every single parent on this thread has some very bad and dangerous thing they did at one point with their child, either via laziness or desperation that could have resulted in the death of their child.

I remember one time leaving my children home alone when they were very little, during a severely cold snow storm and running up the street to pick up milk and cereal and diapers. I had left them for about 10 minutes and ran the entire way. They were both sitting in front of the television and I figured, 'it's safer to leave them here in this cozy warm apartment instead of dragging them out into the cold." They were watching morning cartoons and sitting on the couch. When I got back my 3 year old was in the bathroom with a can of shaving cream, a face full of shaving cream and a razor getting ready to go shave. lease:lease: I'd like to say I never did it again, but I did do it again throughout the winter. I just put them both in their cribs before I left again. I was a single mom and had absolutely no baby sitting help and sometimes I took risks that I shouldn't have. I understand how it can happen.

However, it is negligence to do such things. It just is, and forgetting is not something that should ever be excused with a baby. When we start seeing an increase of parents "forgetting" their children in situations that will prove FATAL to the child, we don't sit back in sympathy and say "Oh well ship happens!!" We step up and say this cannot happen, it's too dangerous.

We need to raise the bar in safety, not lower it in sympathy. So parents who have small children should do things to make sure they don't forget their child. Even just writing on the side window of the car in grease paint, BABY!!! is one tiny thing that parents can do. And we shouldn't need car manufacturers and other people to solve that problem for parents. Parents need to be diligent about not ever putting their child in this type of situation. It's their responsiblity.

:twocents::twocents:

 

[Karmady]

you'd see the top of his head....not saying you're wrong .... it just seems to me I would be seeing top of his head....

If you're even paying the slightest bit of attention, maybe you would. if you're not, who knows. jmo

 

[newone]

ok, behind the passenger seat. Doesn't really matter. The pic is from the rear driver door perspective and the car seat in this case was in the center position with the view, afawk, from the driver's door. Like I said, I'm quite sure there will be a mock up of the actual carseat position in the vehicle and that it will convince no one that they are wrong about their pov on this lol

he's a tall guy too so this will be interesting.....if he was a runt he may have a chance to say he couldn't see much

 

[newone]

The problem with this, is that most people who defend forgetting your kid in the car will say that in his mind the child was in daycare. He could have thought of the child all day and even have spoken to his wife about him but if he thought he was in daycare it wouldn't have registered.

I'm intrigued by the lengths to which people will go to in order to defend this guy in this case. It's very telling to me that even with an arrest for murder people just don't want to hold him responsible. And the reason they don't is because of all the cases that happened before where the others were not arrested. When you only have a 50% conviction rate and you have men averaging 3 years in prison for doing this, then you are setting up a situation that is very dangerous to children.

This is why I believe that in every case the parent should be charged for negligence. Not murder but negligence. Yes people forget. We all forget things as parents, we all make mistakes as parents. Every single parent on this thread has some very bad and dangerous thing they did at one point with their child, either via laziness or desperation that could have resulted in the death of their child.

I remember one time leaving my children home alone when they were very little, during a severely cold snow storm and running up the street to pick up milk and cereal and diapers. I had left them for about 10 minutes and ran the entire way. They were both sitting in front of the television and I figured, 'it's safer to leave them here in this cozy warm apartment instead of dragging them out into the cold." They were watching morning cartoons and sitting on the couch. When I got back my 3 year old was in the bathroom with a can of shaving cream, a face full of shaving cream and a razor getting ready to go shave. lease:lease: I'd like to say I never did it again, but I did do it again throughout the winter. I just put them both in their cribs before I left again. I was a single mom and had absolutely no baby sitting help and sometimes I took risks that I shouldn't have. I understand how it can happen.

However, it is negligence to do such things. It just is, and forgetting is not something that should ever be excused with a baby. When we start seeing an increase of parents "forgetting" their children in situations that will prove FATAL to the child, we don't sit back in sympathy and say "Oh well ship happens!!" We step up and say this cannot happen, it's too dangerous.

We need to raise the bar in safety, not lower it in sympathy. So parents who have small children should do things to make sure they don't forget their child. Even just writing on the side window of the car in grease paint, BABY!!! is one tiny thing that parents can do. And we shouldn't need car manufacturers and other people to solve that problem for parents. Parents need to be diligent about not ever putting their child in this type of situation. It's their responsiblity.

:twocents::twocents:

I am lousy at editing appropriately.
First thank you for your honesty....you were not having drinks on the terrace in Portugal .... hence your guilt ((I do relate trust me)) .... you were doing something out of necessity and took a risk. It could have gone wrong. You beat yourself up more than anyone else could have or would have dared from what I can see.

I agree with you about ''raising the bar'' and perhaps that is what has incensed me so much about this case.

I find it all ''too cavalier'' just too dismissive for my liking.

We have zero tolerance now for even spanking a child yet we can dismiss this lapse of judgement???? yikes where shall we draw the line.

 

[Karmady]

he's a tall guy too so this will be interesting.....if he was a runt he may have a chance to say he couldn't see much

He's not going to say he couldn't see. He's going to say he didn't look/notice. That's what forgetting is about.

idk, I remember it being very disconcerting not to see my rear facing infants. And that those stupid mirrors don't work very well. I turned my kids around as soon as I could, but now they're supposed to be rear-facing until they're like what...20 lol Maybe if he'd been forward facing?

 

[LibertyandJustice4]

For a young couple starting a family and with student loans, they sure did eat out a lot and have a lot of electronic devices! I'm only a couple years younger than Harris living on a similar wage (adjusted for cost of living) with three people in my family and while we aren't broke, we certainly don't have nice cars or eat out 3x per day (breakfast at Chik fil a, lunch wherever, drinks/dinner whatever with friends). This makes me wonder, SPECULATION ONLY if they were having financial problems? Perhaps they had parental help, though I wouldn't think too much if he paid for his tuition 100% with student loans. I don't know. I'd be interested in the answer. Maybe a baby was too much with everything else he wanted.

Also, ime, narcissists love the idea of children as long as the child doesn't take away from them or require much from them. They see children as accessories or mini me's that further stroke their ego. Until the reality of 24/7 responsibility and less money for themselves etc sets in, of course.

All that said, the only, ONLY way I could see him forgetting CH in that short amount of time is if he frequently ate lunch at Chik Fil A and just went on autopilot back to work out of the parking lot. Given everything else, I doubt that's what happened, though.

 

[newone]

He's not going to say he couldn't see. He's going to say he didn't look/notice. That's what forgetting is about.

idk, I remember it being very disconcerting not to see my rear facing infants. And that those stupid mirrors don't work very well. I turned my kids around as soon as I could, but now they're supposed to be rear-facing until they're like what...20 lol Maybe if he'd been forward facing?

totally with you on that point ((forward facing so I could see while I was driving -- how the heck could I tell if infant was in trouble otherwise??)) I agree would have been much easier.

One simple solution albeit too simple for some would be to flop a skinny hand towel in to the top of the car seat and have it ''tail '' forward into front area (KWIM) so that when infant in seat flag is up so to speak (flopping downward) when infant removed put towel in seat for next time

 

[LayzeeDayzee]

only possible defense could be ''insanity''/diminished capacity in his case ((medical or otherwise))

Well if what we know so far is the case, seems like a whole lotta planned/premeditated actions that generally aren't in keeping with someone who snapped/was psychotic/some kind of breakdown.

All I can say is, speaking 'in general'........any parent who plans and executes the death of their child and then tries to plead insanity to save their skin, let there be an extra hot place in hell for them to spend their eternity.

 

[momrids6]

ok, behind the passenger seat. Doesn't really matter. The pic is from the rear driver door perspective and the car seat in this case was in the center position with the view, afawk, from the driver's door. Like I said, I'm quite sure there will be a mock up of the actual carseat position in the vehicle and that it will convince no one that they are wrong about their pov on this lol

I think some ado comes from folks not realizing GA does not have "criminally negligent homicide", like other states do.

Stop messing with my old brain K

I only had under 20 lb kids in rear facing carseats hitting my backrest ( aging myself here)- but there was definitely a difference in how that felt when they were in it or not.

 

[newone]

For a young couple starting a family and with student loans, they sure did eat out a lot and have a lot of electronic devices! I'm only a couple years younger than Harris living on a similar wage (adjusted for cost of living) with three people in my family and while we aren't broke, we certainly don't have nice cars or eat out 3x per day (breakfast at Chik fil a, lunch wherever, drinks/dinner whatever with friends). This makes me wonder, SPECULATION ONLY if they were having financial problems? Perhaps they had parental help, though I wouldn't think too much if he paid for his tuition 100% with student loans. I don't know. I'd be interested in the answer. Maybe a baby was too much with everything else he wanted.

Also, ime, narcissists love the idea of children as long as the child doesn't take away from them or require much from them. They see children as accessories or mini me's that further stroke their ego. Until the reality of 24/7 responsibility and less money for themselves etc sets in, of course.




All that said, the only, ONLY way I could see him forgetting CH in that short amount of time is if he frequently ate lunch at Chik Fil A and just went on autopilot back to work out of the parking lot. Given everything else, I doubt that's what happened, though.

you are reading my mind -- this is definitely a ''first world'' problem (aka pampered pets with ''problems'' )

maybe if they had to ride the bus to work they wouldn't forget their kids and if they did they would be charged for abandoning them (oh perish that thought)

I am too subtle...I believe these two folks to be spoiled rotten brats who are too self centered and would forget everything/anyone if given an opportunity and oh yes blame it on anything/one but themselves.

 

[newone]

Well if what we know so far is the case, seems like a whole lotta planned/premeditated actions that generally aren't in keeping with someone who snapped/was psychotic/some kind of breakdown.

All I can say is, speaking 'in general'........any parent who plans and executes the death of their child and then tries to plead insanity to save their skin, let there be an extra hot place in hell for them to spend their eternity.

did you get a chance to read the link about his attorney?

He specializes in mental health defense YIKES

I'm onside with you....I get it.

 

[newone]

Well if what we know so far is the case, seems like a whole lotta planned/premeditated actions that generally aren't in keeping with someone who snapped/was psychotic/some kind of breakdown.

All I can say is, speaking 'in general'........any parent who plans and executes the death of their child and then tries to plead insanity to save their skin, let there be an extra hot place in hell for them to spend their eternity.

the recent decision of guilty in the Julie Schenecker case (florida mom who shot her two teens) is evidence you can be mentally ill and still plan -- jury didn't buy mental illness defence at all.

 

[momrids6]

only possible defense could be ''insanity''/diminished capacity in his case ((medical or otherwise))

Not going to fly in GA, imo.

I so hope they move this trial south

 

[newone]

maybe that would be the appropriate ''penalty'' for this type of case:

lose driving privileges for say 10 years so that you could NEVER forget again

 

[newone]

Not going to fly in GA, imo.

I so hope they move this trial south

his current attorney defended a murder case in 2011 -- man stabbed his mother 120 times...defendant found not guilty by reason of insanity.

I shudder to think he achieves the same outcome for this case.

 

[momrids6]

his current attorney defended a murder case in 2011 -- man stabbed his mother 120 times...defendant found not guilty by reason of insanity.

I shudder to think he achieves the same outcome for this case.

completely different circumstances...

my worry is if there are too many disengaged "parents" on the jury.. we've seen it before.

 

[CHERIE.T]

http://www.hlntv.com/article/2014/0...oddler-death-justin-ross-harris-hearing-court


Attorneys to lay out case against dad of tot left in car


snip

Hearsay (or information that someone gets from someone else and can't substantiate themselves) will be allowed.

The judge will hear testimony from a police officer (usually the lead investigator in the case), who is expected to be the prosecution's only witness.

The issue of bail is also expected to be addressed at this hearing (Harris is currently behind bars without bail).

Cameras will be allowed inside the courtroom for Thursday's hearing. HLN will bring you live coverage starting at 1:30 p.m. ET.

 

[newone]

does anyone remember that horrid Texas case where the defense said the pampered kid suffered from ""AFFluenza?"" --

 

[CHERIE.T]

does anyone remember that horrid Texas case where the defense said the pampered kid suffered from ""AFFluenza?"" --

That was disgraceful imo.

I wonder how many other rich kids thought they could now get away with vehicle homicide or grievous injury?