Garrido Says Dugard's Rights Violated

[songline]

How did the kids experience the "better half of that?" By what's been reported, they haven't been to a doctor or a dentist. And they didn't go to school. They wouldn't even have birth certificate or social security numbers.
You call that the "better half?"

I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU :blowkiss:
I am beginning to think that there are some PG fans out there, A real scary thought.

 

[songline]

Natal, I think the one point you're missing is that "God and religion" were used as part of his control over them. My mother became fanatical when I was a young teenager and I can tell you it was confusing. The speaking in tongues, hearing "God's" voice and PG even thinking he was the messiah would have had a cult-like effect on the girls. If you have ever read any of Rick Ross' website and his work with deprogramming victims of cults you would likely see it differently. IMO

Correct.

sorry about your experience, I worked with a few such victims many years ago. :blowkiss:
I see you are doing well Just being able to differentiate is a great sign.

 

[kbl8201]

Please learn where the ignore button is. :blowkiss:
Not everything is important

lol thanks

 

[kbl8201]

I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU :blowkiss:
I am beginning to think that there are some PG fans out there, A real scary thought.

im sure there are plenty of wackos that share his twisted phillosophy. im just hoping there arent actual ones that follwed him

 

[songline]

im sure there are plenty of wackos that share his twisted phillosophy. im just hoping there arent actual ones that follwed him

Actualy I think his fan club posts here.

 

[kbl8201]

Actualy I think his fan club posts here.

seems to be a sleyton fan club thats for sure

 

[flourish]

How is what you are proposing to do to them any different from what you claim Garrido did to them?

There is no such thing as brainwashing btw. It is a term used to describe people who have come to think in a way that we don't believe they should. If these "professionals" are going in to this thinking that they are going to "fix" these girls in some way, I can guarentee that they are going to do permanent psychological damage to them.

People can be conditioned naturally or under duress. Duress allways does permanent damage. Jaycee would have been conditioned under duress, but the kids have been conditioned naturally. It is no different from kids being raised as religous or non-religous for example. You might decide that one or the other is not right, remove those kids from their environment, and then "deprogram" them. Maybe you might succeed in getting them to believe in something else. But to do so, you have to use duress to achieve that, and it WILL damage them.

I've said this before and I'll say it again. The only person here who needs therapy in Jaycee. What the girls need is education to live and survive in the modern world, not "re-education".

Natal: It sounds like you have some strong feelings about these things, and definitely some strong opinions. However, you state you opinions as though they are factual. If they are factual, or based on facts, please provide the rest of us with some links or titles of books, or names of experts, or some direction to find these facts. You indicate that you are well-educated, so cite your sources, please! We don't need APA-style citation or anything, but something that backs up the controversial things you tend to say might bolster your arguments. Otherwise, you just seem, IMHO, argumentative and don't come across as credible as you indicate you are.

Please learn where the ignore button is. :blowkiss:
Not everything is important

:clap::clap::clap:

Natal, I think the one point you're missing is that "God and religion" were used as part of his control over them. My mother became fanatical when I was a young teenager and I can tell you it was confusing. The speaking in tongues, hearing "God's" voice and PG even thinking he was the messiah would have had a cult-like effect on the girls. If you have ever read any of Rick Ross' website and his work with deprogramming victims of cults you would likely see it differently. IMO

Amen! Hee hee. Thank you for making such a good point, My2sisters! In the "Addiction 101" class I took years ago, and several thereafter, religion was included as an addiction. Not a surprise to you, I'm sure, nor me, either. (I grew up in a huge, devout LDS home and community, which offered many opportunities to learn about people and religion and how tightly intertwined they are). Anyway, always nice to read your posts.

 

[songline]

seems to be a sleyton fan club thats for sure

I said it seems we have a PG fan club posting here.
I think you misunderstood me.
But I sure did not mean you are his fan.

 

[kbl8201]

I said it seems we have a PG fan club posting here.
I think you misunderstood me.
But I sure did not mean you are his fan.

nope. im a HUGE jaycee fan though :woohoo:

 

[LinasK]

Natal: It sounds like you have some strong feelings about these things, and definitely some strong opinions. However, you state you opinions as though they are factual. If they are factual, or based on facts, please provide the rest of us with some links or titles of books, or names of experts, or some direction to find these facts. You indicate that you are well-educated, so cite your sources, please! We don't need APA-style citation or anything, but something that backs up the controversial things you tend to say might bolster your arguments. Otherwise, you just seem, IMHO, argumentative and don't come across as credible as you indicate you are.

There is no such thing as brainwashing btw. It is a term used to describe people who have come to think in a way that we don't believe they should. If these "professionals" are going in to this thinking that they are going to "fix" these girls in some way, I can guarentee that they are going to do permanent psychological damage to them.

I've said this before and I'll say it again. The only person here who needs therapy in Jaycee. What the girls need is education to live and survive in the modern world, not "re-education".

My point is that THEY will decide what to believe in and how to lead their lives, not what you, or LinasK or I, or anyone else on this board thinks they will or should.

Likewise, your opinion is just that- your opinion, no more no less.
My opinion is that these girls need to understand what crimes their father committed upon their mother and the circumstances of their birth. They need to know they were born into captivity, like animals in a zoo, and that this is NOT a normal life. I think it will take years of therapy to deal with that, in addition to gaining an education, and no I don't think the older daughter is a "write-off" either. She can gain an education, and perhaps eventually go to college. Her future is wide open...

 

[kbl8201]

Likewise, your opinion is just that- your opinion, no more no less.
My opinion is that these girls need to understand what crimes their father committed upon their mother and the circumstances of their birth. They need to know they were born into captivity, like animals in a zoo, and that this is NOT a normal life. I think it will take years of therapy to deal with that, in addition to gaining an education, and no I don't think the older daughter is a "write-off" either. She can gain an education, and perhaps eventually go to college. Her future is wide open...

i agree. i mean if the eldest daughter is a write offt then what would jaycee be? imo they all have a fair chance

 

[Natal]

I think it will take years of therapy to deal with that, in addition to gaining an education, and no I don't think the older daughter is a "write-off" either. She can gain an education, and perhaps eventually go to college. Her future is wide open...

Not really, the ability to learn deterioates as you get older, especially if you have never been educated in the first place. Your brain gets wired up in the first two decades of your life, fixing in place personality, learning ability, stuff like that. It is really difficult to change those sorts of things afterwards. The older girl doesnt have much time left in her development, and raging hormones are going to be directing her attention elsewhere pretty soon I expect.

 

[txsvicki]

Jaycee's children certainly do need counseling. Who knows what they really think of Garrido and his wife, but the girls have discovered that they have been lied to and that their Dad is an abducting rapist and pedophile. They could possibly have a lot of anger, embarassment, and maybe even post traumatic stress from the sudden change. No one in the public really knows yet if Garrido or his wife were ever abusive, mean, cruel, taunting, or how they punished discipline problems. Since Garrido and his wife are most likely psychopaths, they could have even caused emotional turmoil with antics, mind games, and pitting all three girls against each other at times. It couldn't have been normal because these are not normal people. Even Jaycee couldn't have behaved totally normal all the time after living with her demented abductors all those formative years. Just dealing with or trying to communicate with a psychopath or even another personality disorder can cause others big problems without adding rape, captivity, and abduction.

 

[jjenny]

Not really, the ability to learn deterioates as you get older, especially if you have never been educated in the first place. Your brain gets wired up in the first two decades of your life, fixing in place personality, learning ability, stuff like that. It is really difficult to change those sorts of things afterwards. The older girl doesnt have much time left in her development, and raging hormones are going to be directing her attention elsewhere pretty soon I expect.

Why would "raging hormones" prevent her from studying as opposed to everybody else going to college? I would understand your argument if she were raised by wolves, but she did have human contact after all.

 

[flourish]

Not really, the ability to learn deterioates as you get older, especially if you have never been educated in the first place. Your brain gets wired up in the first two decades of your life, fixing in place personality, learning ability, stuff like that. It is really difficult to change those sorts of things afterwards. The older girl doesnt have much time left in her development, and raging hormones are going to be directing her attention elsewhere pretty soon I expect.

Sources?

 

[kbl8201]

Sources?

ok i found this ironic hehe :dance:

 

[LinasK]

Not really, the ability to learn deterioates as you get older, especially if you have never been educated in the first place. Your brain gets wired up in the first two decades of your life, fixing in place personality, learning ability, stuff like that. It is really difficult to change those sorts of things afterwards. The older girl doesnt have much time left in her development, and raging hormones are going to be directing her attention elsewhere pretty soon I expect.

Wrong, I've studied child language, neural development, and brain anatomy. While it is true that personality is mostly formed by age 5, and it is far more difficult to learn a foreign language after age 12, when the brain starts to lose its plasticity, it is not impossible, nor are we so hard-wired that changes cannot be made! I'd sure hate for you to be my parent.
P.S. Even children who have been raised by wolves/socially isolated like the girl "Genie" and stroke patients after 5 years post-onset can learn language, and there is such a thing as neural re-generation.

 

[flourish]

ok i found this ironic hehe :dance:

Why? :dance:

 

[Natal]

Wrong, I've studied child language, neural development, and brain anatomy. While it is true that personality is mostly formed by age 5, and it is far more difficult to learn a foreign language after age 12, when the brain starts to lose its plasticity, it is not impossible, nor are we so hard-wired that changes cannot be made! I'd sure hate for you to be my parent.
P.S. Even children who have been raised by wolves/socially isolated like the girl "Genie" and stroke patients after 5 years post-onset can learn language, and there is such a thing as neural re-generation.

Your personality gets set by your early to mid twenties, it is still forming before that.

Feral children don't really learn complex language, they do aquire some vocabulary however but that is not the same thing. Once they miss the boat it's gone for good.

I didn't say it was impossible to learn, just very difficult. To get to college level from nothing as a young adult is exceedingly difficult.

 

[LinasK]

Your personality gets set by your early to mid twenties, it is still forming before that.

Feral children don't really learn complex language, they do aquire some vocabulary however but that is not the same thing. Once they miss the boat it's gone for good.

I didn't say it was impossible to learn, just very difficult. To get to college level from nothing as a young adult is exceedingly difficult.

But the older daughter is not starting from nothing, she is literate and had access to books, novels, even computers. Jaycee apparently taught her daughters to read and write with the 5th grade education she had, so the girls have some abilities...
We don't really know if the test measures they've been given recently, such as-who is president, world history is really appropriate for where they are at currently. In other words, just because they don't know this knowledge, doesn't mean they don't know anything and are unteachable.