GBC Trial General Discussion Thread #1

[TootsieFootsie]

I wonder if the taking of the vaccum cleaner by NBC was a part of their usual routine.
Sounds like this particular time at least he had to be told to take it and where to take it from.

Perhaps the truth is in "the bag"....the vac bag...which I'm sure would have been tested.

Forensic witnesses are going to be mighty interesting!!

 

[Straitfan]

DocWatson, going back to yesterday, I don't find it odd at all the neighbors having different times of the noises. that happens with witnesses all the time as you know, maybe just me, put me on that jury That said, now I shall try to catch up

 

[Straitfan]

GBC was lucky, IMO, none of the neighbors made calls to 911, I would have and do, so sad they didn't for Allison.

 

[Makara]

GBC was lucky, IMO, none of the neighbors made calls to 911, I would have and do, so sad they didn't for Allison.

Yes, that's a good point Straitfan. Not one person who heard the screams etc. has said that they contacted the police. There were rumours of the police being at GBC's house on the Wednesday night but it has never been substantiated so we have to leave that one alone for now. It may well be that the police involved in this case have a whole lot of information and evidence to back it up and I'm very much looking forward to them taking the stand. That's when I think this trial will really take off.

 

[Freya1977]

I noticed that little gem - clever idea they cooked up to explain something quite damning. I wonder if those terms actually were mentioned in that episode of The Good Wife? I wonder if it has been checked? Ch 10 could probably supply information about what episode it was, and it could be viewed.

If I recall correctly it was actually checked and found to be correct?

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[they'll get you]

Hypothetically, was going for coffee on the 18th some kind of trial run?
If GBC had asked ABC to go with him for coffee, no doubt she would have jumped at it IMO. You know, on the premise of the 15 min talks and trying to repair the marriage, etc.
So, could it have been a disguised 'trial run' of taking Allison somewhere and his parents minding the children? This is not beyond the realm of possibility. My opinion only.

Fusky I don't know what it is but THAT made me go OMG. I just can't pinpoint it. He went in, the babes were already in bed/asleep while g & Allison went for a cuppa, romance or business. Mmm they are playing at something.
I now realise it was the night before but......

I think that's exactly what happened the next night.

 

[they'll get you]

GBC was lucky, IMO, none of the neighbors made calls to 911, I would have and do, so sad they didn't for Allison.

000 in Aus.

 

[marlywings]

Just on that second point too - when I walked early every morning I saw the same people going about their day everyday at that time. People knew me who lived on the route I walked as we'd wave when I passed or those in cars sounded horns. Neighbours know better than anyone if people have exercise routines - there is no evidence of this. Although most people I came across were strangers, they knew I walked at that time every morning.

Exactly! I've bolded your comment above & the line below....

From the QPS Court Brief - Charges

The defendant initially told police and other witnesses that it was usual for the deceased to take a morning walk on week days and that he was concerned that morning because the deceased was due to attend a work seminar and had planned to leave the house at 7am. The defendant told his sister Olivia Walton of the deccased's walking route at about 6.30am on 20 April 2012. The defendant told another witness, Elise Nielsen, a long term friend of the deceased, that the deceased normally went for a walk at about 10pm in the evening. The defendant identified two possible walking route to uniform police, however, three hours later told the deceased's parents that he did not know the walking route. That is, within a few hours the defendant provided four differing accounts about the walking routines undertaken by the deceased. Enquiries with the deceased's parents and close friends indicated that the deceased was not known to walk for excercise and was unlikely to have gone walking late at night. Extensive enquiries were conducted along the suggested walking routes with no persons coming forward having witnessed anyone matching the deceased's description walking at either of these times in this area.

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[Thinking]

I wonder if the taking of the vaccum cleaner by NBC was a part of their usual routine.
Sounds like this particular time at least he had to be told to take it and where to take it from.

Yes, perhaps when it became clear the police were going to hang around after they turned up way sooner than expected?

 

[Freya1977]

I was thinking that I'd heard it reported back at the time that NBC and GBC were loading in the vacuum and hose as police arrived . is that incorrect?

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[they'll get you]

Exactly! I've bolded your comment above & the line below....

From the QPS Court Brief - Charges

The defendant initially told police and other witnesses that it was usual for the deceased to take a morning walk on week days and that he was concerned that morning because the deceased was due to attend a work seminar and had planned to leave the house at 7am. The defendant told his sister Olivia Walton of the deccased's walking route at about 6.30am on 20 April 2012. The defendant told another witness, Elise Nielsen, a long term friend of the deceased, that the deceased normally went for a walk at about 10pm in the evening. The defendant identified two possible walking route to uniform police, however, three hours later told the deceased's parents that he did not know the walking route. That is, within a few hours the defendant provided four differing accounts about the walking routines undertaken by the deceased. Enquiries with the deceased's parents and close friends indicated that the deceased was not known to walk for excercise and was unlikely to have gone walking late at night. Extensive enquiries were conducted along the suggested walking routes with no persons coming forward having witnessed anyone matching the deceased's description walking at either of these times in this area.

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Did of the children say she walked?

 

[Freya1977]

Did of the children say she walked?

They said she walked before they would get up in the mornings.....so maybe they've been told that's what she did.

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[Total]

Yes, that's a good point Straitfan. Not one person who heard the screams etc. has said that they contacted the police. There were rumours of the police being at GBC's house on the Wednesday night but it has never been substantiated so we have to leave that one alone for now. It may well be that the police involved in this case have a whole lot of information and evidence to back it up and I'm very much looking forward to them taking the stand. That's when I think this trial will really take off.

Although in one of the CIB Constable's statements he interviewed several people who came to Indooroopilly Police Station in the immediate days after Allison's disappearance and statements were taken. These people may yet appear as witnesses.

 

[DunnoZo]

Did of the children say she walked?

"The girl said her mother would go walking in the morning and would usually wear a blue or pink singlet and black leggings."

“Sometimes she wears just her T-shirt and pants,’’ she said.

 

[Bobbie Elliott]

I don't agree. My impressions from reading the transcripts of anything said by TM indicate to me she has no shame. I mean she is actually commenting nastily about Allison being a stay-at-home Mum. Calling her a "lady of lesiure" in the particular situation that arose implies she thinks Allison had it easy. I mean she had 3 children which is not exactly a walk in the park workload-wise.

Then there were all the comments about arrangements and how things could work etc, the tone of them to my mind is quite resentful, angry and unreasonable, speaking as if she (TM) feels very entitled. Something about "you don't afford me the same respect". Like - TM expected to be treated equally to Allison in all respects.

Sorry Toni, Allison was his wife, you were the mistress, and as such you have no rights! Sure, you had the right not to be abused, just as every human being does, but that's all. Sure, it might be disappointing when you have an affair with a married man and he makes promises to you which aren't delivered when you want them to be, but the reality is that you as the mistress are never going to get the time (during the affair) with your lover you think you deserve - because he is married and is spending time with his wife and family. You signed up for an affair, not a consensual arrangement between 3 where everyone has the same rights and entitlements.

I believe Toni wouldn't have liked seeing Allison at the gym because of disappointment and resentment, and her anger at GBC is diverted onto the wife, and the wife is demonised by both to justify the affair. Par for the course with affairs.

Thank you Vibe. I couldn't agree more. After all, what reasonable adult would think that he or she has the right to decide where an unrelated adult and that adult's children should live, and with whom and when?? It makes me very angry!!

 

[drsleuth]

I think that if a witness may need to be recalled, as opposed to just a break in their testimony where say court has finished for the day, then the lawyer has to seek permission from the Judge before the witness leaves the witnesses box. They would also have to have a good reason as it is very inconvenient for a witness to have to hang around and be further available.

Thanks Alioop. Just going on my experience in the Coroners court ( may well be entirely different for criminal court?) But once I gave my evidence I was allowed to sit in the court room. Which I did until the next break. My barrister said that by sitting in the court there was a chance that they could re-call me at anytime as they knew I was still there. He said if I was not there the chances of being called were slim ( unless they really wanted me, than they would find me & I would have had to go back on the witness stand ). I spent all up 2 1/2 hrs in the witness box ( well not really a box!! ) & wasn't keen to go back!! But I did return the next day, to support one of my colleagues ( who spent all the prior day stuck in a little room awaiting being called & then never was called until the next day ) with a lot of other colleagues who never ended up being called!!

In hindsight I wish I had stayed to hear the final judgement from the Coroner, apparently I was an impressive witnesses.

So that is why I thought you could get re-called at any time

 

[Amee]

The girl said her mum would walk every morning unless she had to go to work early.

Mum always got, she always wears lots of jumpers because she gets cold … so she had grey tracksuit pants and her tracksuit jumper and just normal runners, not fancy ones

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/na...ing-wife-allison/story-fnii5v70-1226951597398

 

[Bobbie Elliott]

"The girl said her mother would go walking in the morning and would usually wear a blue or pink singlet and black leggings."

“Sometimes she wears just her T-shirt and pants,’’ she said.

In relation to Allison's daughters' memory of what their mum was wearing when they last saw her:

I wonder if they actually "remembered" specifically what she was wearing then, or whether it was a general memory of what Allison usually wears at that time of night (or what they told what to say?). I go to bed before my hubby whom I usually leave in his armchair watching telly. Each morning I could not say accurately what he was wearing the night before when I went to bed. I could say roughly based on the types of things he usually wears at night when he's watching telly. But there are many variations of this depending on things like the weather, what clothes are clean, what he's been wearing prior to settling in his chair, his current favourite items etc etc.

 

[LadyBird1]

I think he'd tossed it at first then possibly either him or someone else retrieved it later on.

Text copied from Kellie Thomson's statement.

At "24 & 25" ,which I've bolded, is about where he may have needed new ummm undies...lol.

23. At or about 1.09pm, I approached the defendant as he returned back to 593 Brookfield Road, Broofield and I asked the defendant if I could use his mobile phone again so I could try and locate Allison Baden-Clay's phone again using the application called find my friends. At this time, it took a good 10seconds where the application was searching and upon completion of the search. The defendant was standing beside me and I told the defendant that the phone was still searching. I then observed a blue dot on the screen whe it indicated Allison's mobile phone was. I then said to the defendant, "Oh it come up"

24. The defendant didn't say much, it may have been, "Oh that's good".

25. I said, "It looks like it's only about 150 metres behind your property".

26. The defendant did not make any reply. When I zoomed in on the screen it showed that Allison's phone was in the rear of 61 Boscombe Road, Brookfield. I then thanked the defendant and I handed his mobile phone back to him. As a result of the phone search for Allison's phone I then walked outside and I had a conversation with Senior Sgt Narelle CURTIS and I told her certain things.

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Good post MW regarding the whereabouts of Allison's phone and Kellie Thompsons statement:
Repeating again ...This is vitally important

25. I said, "It looks like it's only about 150 metres behind your property".

26. The defendant did not make any reply. When I zoomed in on the screen it showed that Allison's phone was in the rear of 61 Boscombe Road, Brookfield. I then thanked the defendant and I handed his mobile phone back to him. As a result of the phone search for Allison's phone I then walked outside and I had a conversation with Senior Sgt Narelle CURTIS and I told her certain things.

This tells me the phone was not "lost" at this time.
It also begs the question: What was it doing at 61 Boscombe Road Brookfield?
Is this where Allison was at some point in time?
And WHY was GBC not relieved, happy or excited that it had been located?
His response ...
24. The defendant didn't say much, it may have been, "Oh that's good".

 

[Snails]

They said she walked before they would get up in the mornings.....so maybe they've been told that's what she did.

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I think there's a lot of "what they've been told" & what to say she did, especially in the "debriefs" in the weeks that followed. All shall be revealed. Keep the faith!