GBC Trial General Discussion Thread #2

[BreakingNews]

I always wondered if one of his family was at the house? Who better to calm and quiet the children if they wake up? Then next day they could make out it was a dream to the children.

Maybe I don't fully understand the culture, but it seemed like NBC went over to mind the children on the night of 18 April, so A & G could 'go for coffee'. It was only later that it turned out that EBC was there also. It was like she didn't matter in the equation. Everything was about NBC - like father, like son???
:jail::jail::jail:

 

[Bobbie Elliott]

Since I am inclined to believe the Qld Police on this issue, that Gerard did indeed interfere with Alisons corpse at the Kholo Bridge, it is reasonable to believe that at some stage .. either..

Gerard left them alone in the house while he does the drop.. or...

Someone else does the drop.. or..

Someone minds the girls while he does the drop.. there are no alternatives..

it is beyond rationale to believe that he took the girls with him . ..

and that drop of Alison's corpse was done that night or in the dark hours of the morning.

Thanks Trooper

I have a question regarding "interfering with a corpse". This may have already been covered, but could this just be something as "relatively mild" as moving a corpse from one location to another? The terminology sounds really bad - like Allison's body was mutilated in some way. But, this might not be the case.

Does anyone know what this means?

 

[BJsleuth]

I wonder why this has not yet come up? That to me screams of witness tampering and perverting the course of justice. It puts in question absolutely everything those poor girls have said to date and reflects very poorly on GBC.

I told my partner about that comment and he said it could be reference to talking to the girls about what they have seen or heard on TV, from their friends etc. they may have a time set aside to talk through all that and alleviate their concerns.

I'm not sure I agree with that at all. I just think it's very suss.

Debrief isn't concerning alone so much but combined with the "not allowed" bit, alarm bells are sounding loudly.

 

[BJsleuth]

Thanks Trooper

I have a question regarding "interfering with a corpse". This may have already been covered, but could this just be something as "relatively mild" as moving a corpse from one location to another? The terminology sounds really bad - like Allison's body was mutilated in some way. But, this might not be the case.

Does anyone know what this means?

Yes, not treating the deceased with dignity and giving them the proper burial/funeral.

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/qld/consol_act/cc189994/s236.html

 

[Deleted member 102539]

:wave:

The first one FromGermany, Allison

Thank you! I'm reassured.

And now I have to :sweep: and to style myself (hours :dramaqueen: )and to go shopping

in the supermarket. Bye!

 

[Bobbie Elliott]

I'm waiting (geographically Hamburg/Bremen, if you know?) with you all on justice for Allison. :smile:
Thanks!!


Allison or Alison - how is it correct?

I apologise in advance if this is a rude question, but how do people from the other side of the world in a non-English speaking country come to be interested in Allison's tragedy? I appreciate that your English is very, very good - far, far better than my German, which poor Frau Teishman unsuccessfully tried so hard to teach us at high school!

 

[toe]

Yes Kiwijayne OW was not present for the "fairly short" dinner of sausages because she had been out to dinner herself only arriving home about the time she received the call from Allison's phone 8.28pm. Unless she didn't leave for her dinner date until about 6.30pm to 7.00pm.

It surprises me that EBC is not a witness, I would have assumed she cooked the sausage helped with supervision of children.

During the debriefing session with the children the debriefer mistook sausages for mince, the children said that had mince for dinner that night.:floorlaugh:

 

[Bobbie Elliott]

Yes, not treating the deceased with dignity and giving them the proper burial/funeral.

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/qld/consol_act/cc189994/s236.html

BJ, thank you so much for the link. But, what does "touching the burial or other disposition of a human body or human remains" mean?

Sorry to get picky

 

[toe]

Thanks Trooper

I have a question regarding "interfering with a corpse". This may have already been covered, but could this just be something as "relatively mild" as moving a corpse from one location to another? The terminology sounds really bad - like Allison's body was mutilated in some way. But, this might not be the case.

Does anyone know what this means?

It means Alison was murdered elsewhere and her body moved from the location.

 

[marlywings]

I apologise in advance if this is a rude question, but how do people from the other side of the world in a non-English speaking country come to be interested in Allison's tragedy? I appreciate that your English is very, very good - far, far better than my German, which poor Frau Teishman unsuccessfully tried so hard to teach us at high school!

WS although American based, is a world wide forum. We have members from numerous countries on here. Some folks are interested in crimes in other countries. No different to how many of our Aussies become interested in & follow many of the US cases. Many Aussies are following the Sth African Oscar Pistorious trial.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=536"]Oscar Pistorius - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]


A look through this link shows the vast amount of cases from countries across the world.


[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=516"]International Cases *Index Only* - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

 

[DrWatson]

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...ive-coverage-day-3-week-1-20140612-39yck.html

NBC said he remembers GBC dropping sausages off early in the afternoon.
He returned to the BC home about 5pm.
Had a "fairly short" dinner.
GBC left "fairly early for home about 6.30pm.

But GBC phone logged on at 17.52pm at Pullenvale. Go figure!!

Actually, to be strictly fair, that is not impossible. NBC/EBC's house is on the side of Kenmore, down the hill from the centre of Kenmore, and on the hill that faces Pullenvale. While I would have expected the connection to be made to the Kenmore tower which is up in the centre of Kenmore just near the corner opposite the Catholic church, there is another one a similar distance away in the opposite direction at the old Uni Vet farm. There is also another one on Moggill Rd near Grand View Rd. Either of those could be labelled as Pullenvale.

The tower to which the phone connects doesn't necessarily mean that the phone was AT that location - it just means that it was somewhere within the coverage of that tower. Also - and for those with better tech knowledge than me, feel free to correct me here - if the load on one tower is busy, then the signal gets handed off to another tower, as their fields of coverage overlap quite a bit. So if Kenmore tower was busy, the signal could easily have been handed off to Pullenvale as long as the phone was within reach of that tower.

 

[marlywings]

Some random thoughts...

When TM appeared in court last week, she'd been driven to & from court by police.

She's apparently made five statements....we only know of four.

She's detailed the affair to police....but is that enough to warrant police escort??

I think there is most likely a lot more to come from that fifth statement.

There's been no mention in court about TM's whereabouts on the night Allison was murdered.

GBC took the snags to BC's.....

Girls are supervised at grandparents.....GBC knows this.

Allison at hairdressers.....GBC knows this.

TM calls GBC ......rages at him about the conference.

For some reason I can picture Allison sitting at hairdresser, waiting for foils to be done, fiddling with her phone.....

From all I've read, when a woman has been cheated on, trust goes out the window & is replaced by distrust along with a constant need to know where the cheater is at & what he's doing.

Find my friends app was added to the phone so Allison could keep track of him.........

IF, via the find my friend, he's not at the BC's & not at home......

.................where is GBC??.....& where is TM??

And did Allison know??

 

[BJsleuth]

BJ, thank you so much for the link. But, what does "touching the burial or other disposition of a human body or human remains" mean?

Sorry to get picky

Basically moving them from where they were or rearranging their position.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Some random thoughts...

When TM appeared in court last week, she'd been driven to & from court by police.

She's apparently made five statements....we only know of four.

She's detailed the affair to police....but is that enough to warrant police escort??

I think there is most likely a lot more to come from that fifth statement.

There's been no mention in court about TM's whereabouts on the night Allison was murdered.

GBC took the snags to BC's.....

Girls are supervised at grandparents.....GBC knows this.

Allison at hairdressers.....GBC knows this.

TM calls GBC ......rages at him about the conference.

For some reason I can picture Allison sitting at hairdresser, waiting for foils to be done, fiddling with her phone.....

From all I've read, when a woman has been cheated on, trust goes out the window & is replaced by distrust along with a constant need to know where the cheater is at & what he's doing.

Find my friends app was added to the phone so Allison could keep track of him.........

IF, via the find my friend, he's not at the BC's & not at home......

.................where is GBC??.....& where is TM??

And did Allison know??

This would be a huge revelation if GBC was with TM, especially if Allison knew.

and to clinch it, CCTV footage and/or witnesses of GBC vehicles anywhere but at home after 8pm 19/4 to 6am 20/4.

(Also, I wonder if the bomb threat at court hearing exactly 2 yrs ago has any relation to TM need for police protection, jmho)

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/badenclay-and-sica-courts-evacuated-20120621-20q41.html

 

[Seeking]

I wonder why this has not yet come up? That to me screams of witness tampering and perverting the course of justice. It puts in question absolutely everything those poor girls have said to date and reflects very poorly on GBC.

I told my partner about that comment and he said it could be reference to talking to the girls about what they have seen or heard on TV, from their friends etc. they may have a time set aside to talk through all that and alleviate their concerns.

I'm not sure I agree with that at all. I just think it's very suss.

In regards to the debrief of the children I have a few perspectives on this. I can definitely see the potential for a manipulative debrief to assist with a coverup, but I can also see the validity of other more positive reasons for a debrief. I can see the value in taking the time to clarify with the children the myriad of things happening in their life at a very tragic and confusing time. I can also see the value of giving children (who have probably been taught to respect adults) the power to not feel they have to answer every prying and possibly gossipy adults questions. I am talking about adults that have no legitimate reason to find out details (not police and people like grandparents). Some adults do see children as easy people to find out juicy information from. Some children are so respectful, innocent and honest that they don't have the confidence, skills, nor power to resist answering questions from prying adults. I can remember as a child my parents giving me the tools, confidence and permission to not answer the questions of prying adults. It was about things like confidential details about my foster siblings that were important for me to understand, and not at all necessary for prying adults. There were other situations that it was appropriate too. We have done the same thing with our own children from time to time, not to facilitate a coverup of anything but for appropriate reasons. I think there is a fine balance with children in teaching them to be open and transparent and able to confidently report to adults appropriate things (eg. Reporting abuse, assisting with a police investigation etc.) and giving them the tools to have the confidence to not answer the questions of adults who are really just prying for their own ends.

 

[Minerva]

Actually, to be strictly fair, that is not impossible. NBC/EBC's house is on the side of Kenmore, down the hill from the centre of Kenmore, and on the hill that faces Pullenvale. While I would have expected the connection to be made to the Kenmore tower which is up in the centre of Kenmore just near the corner opposite the Catholic church, there is another one a similar distance away in the opposite direction at the old Uni Vet farm. There is also another one on Moggill Rd near Grand View Rd. Either of those could be labelled as Pullenvale.

The tower to which the phone connects doesn't necessarily mean that the phone was AT that location - it just means that it was somewhere within the coverage of that tower. Also - and for those with better tech knowledge than me, feel free to correct me here - if the load on one tower is busy, then the signal gets handed off to another tower, as their fields of coverage overlap quite a bit. So if Kenmore tower was busy, the signal could easily have been handed off to Pullenvale as long as the phone was within reach of that tower.

Does anyone remember back in the olden days when everyone had Nokia phones? You could set your phone's location to display on the screen. What it was displaying was actually the tower that it had the best connection to, and you could "change suburbs" by walking from one end of the house to the other. Same principle.

Okay so I'm a nerd...and getting a bit old.

 

[Minerva]

In regards to the debrief of the children I have a few perspectives on this. I can definitely see the potential for a manipulative debrief to assist with a coverup, but I can also see the validity of other more positive reasons for a debrief. I can see the value in taking the time to clarify with the children the myriad of things happening in their life at a very tragic and confusing time. I can also see the value of giving children (who have probably been taught to respect adults) the power to not feel they have to answer every prying and possibly gossipy adults questions. I am talking about adults that have no legitimate reason to find out details (not police and people like grandparents). Some adults do see children as easy people to find out juicy information from. Some children are so respectful, innocent and honest that they don't have the confidence, skills, nor power to resist answering questions from prying adults. I can remember as a child my parents giving me the tools, confidence and permission to not answer the questions of prying adults. It was about things like confidential details about my foster siblings that were important for me to understand, and not at all necessary for prying adults. There were other situations that it was appropriate too. We have done the same thing with our own children from time to time, not to facilitate a coverup of anything but for appropriate reasons. I think there is a fine balance with children in teaching them to be open and transparent and able to confidently report to adults appropriate things (eg. Reporting abuse, assisting with a police investigation etc.) and giving them the tools to have the confidence to not answer the questions of adults who are really just prying for their own ends.

I totally agree, given the nature of the situation, I'm sure a few unscrupulous adults would have oh so casually queried the girls for information. Protects the girls as well as controlling and preventing wild rumours. Look at how many rumours were on the discussion threads here at the very beginning.

 

[Trooper]

Thanks Trooper

I have a question regarding "interfering with a corpse". This may have already been covered, but could this just be something as "relatively mild" as moving a corpse from one location to another? The terminology sounds really bad - like Allison's body was mutilated in some way. But, this might not be the case.

Does anyone know what this means?

a delicate subject.... but the premise is, that an offence against the dead is an offence against the living... that the dead are to be treated with reverence as a cornerstone of a civilised community.. QLD follows this premise as do most nations, states, communities.


But it also means a little bit more... when any one of us dies, we become outside the range of politics, government per se , even relatives, family, sons , daughters.. we .. that is.. our remains are the property and under the authority of The Coroner, and /or a medically qualified agent who , under the laws we live by, has the authority to pronounce death. And to register it.

To be specific.. ( people can turn away from this post at this point if it's too much.. ) Gerard has no authority to pronounce death. On anyone. He isn't qualified, and he isn't registered as such.. He therefore has no authority to move anyones body anywhere. . No one has any idea if Alison was in fact , dead, when moved from her home to the Kholo creek. The Coroner cannot tell. Gerard has interfered with the designated process of death. Gerard may have believed she was dead, but this does not exonerate him , it merely underlines the illegality of the actions Gerard took.

so 'merely ' moving the corpse is , while in your context, could be seen as 'mild' in comparison to what is sometimes done by murderers to corpses , it also is quite a departure from normal behaviour. Gerard, in abrogating the job of the Coroner and a Doctor for the sole purpose of hiding his crime, that is, the murder of Alison, committed a further crime. The penalty for that can be quite harsh.. as it should be. Deterrence is all, in this circumstance.

 

[they'll get you]

Some random thoughts...

When TM appeared in court last week, she'd been driven to & from court by police.

She's apparently made five statements....we only know of four.

She's detailed the affair to police....but is that enough to warrant police escort??

I think there is most likely a lot more to come from that fifth statement.

There's been no mention in court about TM's whereabouts on the night Allison was murdered.

GBC took the snags to BC's.....

Girls are supervised at grandparents.....GBC knows this.

Allison at hairdressers.....GBC knows this.

TM calls GBC ......rages at him about the conference.

For some reason I can picture Allison sitting at hairdresser, waiting for foils to be done, fiddling with her phone.....

From all I've read, when a woman has been cheated on, trust goes out the window & is replaced by distrust along with a constant need to know where the cheater is at & what he's doing.

Find my friends app was added to the phone so Allison could keep track of him.........

IF, via the find my friend, he's not at the BC's & not at home......

.................where is GBC??.....& where is TM??

And did Allison know??

I can see GBC & Nige swapping phones so his phone would be home with Nige.
Allison's feelings were totally justified but she'd be ridiculed for thinking such absurdities.
Allison's sister in-law & father in-law got on the stand and hammered away about her depression.

A question was asked wondering if Allison could have had an inkling her life was in danger, I'm sure her in-laws would suggest go wear something brighter and snap out of it.
It's just so sad.
Other than her mum suggesting her to come home, what real support did she have.

 

[Humdinger]

Just a random comment on sleeping children...

This afternoon we went wood carting, master 5 fell asleep on the way. We got there and parked about 5metres from the tree and 2 very large and Loud chainsaws started working and did so for some time. After an hour or so master 5 was woken by his brother rocking the ute by bouncing in the back of it, not the noise of the saws!

Some kids sleep through ANYTHING!