GBC Trial General Discussion Thread #3

[BJsleuth]

I thought the same. Unless it's an intimate affair (probably wrong choice of words) there should be more than enough room among the hundreds of attendees for them to avoid each other, which as adults should be possible. TM was being a bit of a drama queen with her demands IMHO. Or perhaps she'd heard so much about Allison's supposed histrionics that she believed she'd have a melt down if they were to catch a glimpse of each other.

I think from the previous encounter at the gym, TM couldn't handle the guilt and probably her own envy of the legitimate relationship between Allison & G. I think she might have, thought if she could get G to mention to Allison, Allison would know G is still in touch with TM and it would end things befween A & G once and for all then TM & G wouldn't need to sneak around and TM can be #1.

 

[Freya1977]

Lindy Chamberlain was crucified by the media and the public, she belonged to a minority religion and didn't react the way "we" expected her to react. There were no hysterics, she was very stoned faced, yes the baby was dressed in a black lace dress, but their were so many rumours - children falling out of shopping trolleys, "Azaria" meqanin sacrifice in the wilderness, blood in the camera bag, foetal blood splatters in the Torana, the time frame didn't fit right but that didn't matter. The "experts" were found wrong, it was some noise deafening medium rather the blood of a new born. I must admit, I thought she was strange and expected because the police and experts said she was guilty that she was, now it seems that "they" wanted to find her guilty, I am wondering if it is not much the same in this case.

The scratches could have come from Toni, from what has been said of her she seems to have a more aggressive personality than poor Allison (I just remembered why on earth would you sit in a McDonald's car park to discuss your husbands infidelity) who seems to have been a person who kept things to herself. If Allison was capable of fighting hard enough to scratch GBC face, would there not have been some bruises pn her body from the force applied to subdue her, or would decomposition eradicated them?

If TM scratched him, why wouldn't they have said so? That would certainly be a better story than the razor one.

 

[BJsleuth]

If TM scratched him, why wouldn't they have said so? That would certainly be a better story than the razor one.

That would fly in the face of not seeing TM and probably have lead to an argument with A. He's trying to steer clear of that because it doesn't fit the "We were going to spend the rest of our lives together" crap. It seems he was quite intending to be with TM after Allison's disappearance, after the period of "laying low" of course.

 

[marlywings]

Another photo of the creek. It was a court exhibit at trial so I assume it was taken some time close to when Allison's body was found....which was a day or so after the torrential rain.

Allison Baden-Clay's body was discovered under the Kholo Creek bridge. Photo: Court Exhibit

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...ay-6-week-2-20140618-3ackc.html#ixzz34ydZc6gp

 

[toe]

I agree. I find it hard to believe the rest of the BC family were involved. I think they are just bewildered that GBC has been accused. And possibly they aren't very nice people.

I also think that even though GBC is guilty it doesn't mean that everything he has said is a lie. For example some people have questioned the BBQ sausages. I really don't see why he would have lied over something like that.




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Maybe the reason for the BBQ questions was due to the the inconsistencies in relation to the activities, time frame, phone calls, and the statements given by the children, it appeared he was embelishing this story as an alabi as to where he really was during this time.

 

[Not Poirot]

What do you all think? Based on what we've heard so far, do you think he will be found guilty, or not?

Before the trial started I thought he'd be found guilty. Now I'm not so sure - which is awful to contemplate. Curious as to what you all think currently?

 

[Walk A Mile]

I understand what you're saying but if your spouse sudddenly disappeared, would your father give the police a statement if asked? NBC refused to give police a statement? Why?

You know, he might. If he thought I was being railroaded, he might refuse to give a statement so he doesn't inadvertently give the police more ammunition. NBC was worried from early on that morning that the place was crawling with police, and most people know the spouse is the first person suspicion falls on; many people fear the police will look no further because the spouse is statistically the most likely person.

So, yeah, maybe my dad would give a statement because he thought he could help, but maybe he'd refuse because he thought it would be at best ignored by cops on a witch hunt, at worst used against me.

I think GBC is guilty. I think the rest of his clan weren't involved and he hasn't told them the truth. I think they are a close family who put a lot of emphasis on loyalty, and will stand by him despite private misgivings. I just also think a good sleuthing considers things from all angles, not just the ones that back up pet theories, and not just the ones that paint the suspect and his associates in a negative light. Look at NBC as an obstructionist aiding murder and you'll see him trying to remove evidence from the scene of the crime and refusing to co-operate with a police investigation; look at him as a man who is close to his children and who habitually helps them out and you'll see a man who wants to protect his son from being railroaded by suspicious police, a man who can't fix the missing daughter in law problem but can at least make sure that house gets vacuumed.

 

[Snails]

Found this link. Hope it works as it's well worth reading

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...965181701?nk=0c05cd04fcc7eea7119750ef833e53ff

"The narcissist must be the centre of attention. They soak up admiration like a sponge, need and use others as a narcissistic line of *supply. Whatever is good for the self is good. They are prone to magical, grandiose thinking about their life: it is all or nothing. Greatness is what is desired; to be average is despised. Part of this derives from an exceptional sense of entitlement, of being uniquely special. They are the “captain on a ship of fools”. But they are also prone to savage envy, and their arrogance means that apologising, taking responsibility for a wrong, is impossible, for the narcissist is never wrong. At the end of any argument, the narcissist will see only that you have injured them. Often people around them give in to them, always walking on eggshells, as offence is taken so easily."

As I'm a subscriber to The Australian it worked for me, but it is subscriber content. Sorry.

Sounds so familiar, band aid and all.

"When Breivik was arrested he held up a *finger. It had a small cut on it. He stood on an island littered with 69 shattered and bloodied corpses, yet as the policemen handcuffed him, he held up that finger. He wanted a plaster. “He was really intent,” said the policeman later, “on getting himself that Band-Aid.” When the *second team of psychiatrists ruled that Breivik suffered from an extreme narcissistic personality disorder and should stand trial, Breivik was *triumphant. Here was the chance he hoped for: standing centre stage in front of the world’s cameras, avoiding the “humiliation” of being dismissed as mad."

 

[possumheart]

If TM scratched him, why wouldn't they have said so? That would certainly be a better story than the razor one.

And this is where this case parallels the Casey Anthony case in my eyes. For those of you not familiar with that case, Casey's father George is reported to have confided to a friend that the death of Casey's daughter Caylee 'was an accident that snowballed out of control'. Like Allison, Caylee's body was found dumped off the side of the road. The defense argued that she had drowned in the family's pool and George had taken care of the disposal of the body. Rather than be exposed as a negligent mother, Casey told lie upon lie about where her child was, and then went silent. Like Gerard, Casey came from an unusual family with narcissistic traits.
Gerard's scratches are his out-of-control spiral. If he had admitted that he had fought with either Toni or Allison and given a believable excuse for those scratches from day one, this investigation would have been quite different I believe. I also suspect that Gerard has a personality disorder, and I do believe the time in jail seems to have turned that disorder into a malignancy of the soul. I would not be surprised if the trial moves towards a psychiatric assessment next week.

 

[Freya1977]

this is weird, why wouldn't he have TM programmed as Mrs Overlander or Mrs GG in the phone.

Real Estate agents have many calls. I couldn't see Allison phoning them all to check who they were. She is above that behavior.

I'm sure Allison wouldn't be that easily fooled, she'd probably know the number..... imo

 

[Onlyone]

Gap Creek Rd would take you longer it has those wierd speed trap areas etc. But we only have GBC and his families word they where gone 30 mins.

I meant if Mt Cootha was the destination, would it make a difference if it was the back or front.

 

[Cattail]

Maybe the reason for the BBQ questions was due to the the inconsistencies in relation to the activities, time frame, phone calls, and the statements given by the children, it appeared he was embelishing this story as an alabi as to where he really was during this time.

Yes I can see this. But I also think that we will always hear inconsistencies when we get reports second third or fourth hand. Even in the reports from the opening statement in the trial there appeared to be inconsistencies from memory about whether Allison had dinner with a friend after the hairdressers.
It's a bit like Chinese whispers.
And I believe it was the youngest daughter who said they had mince for tea and people asked how you could have mince and sausages. I find it easy to believe that a young child who is bewildered as to where her mum has gone and is suddenly in the strange position of being questioned by police could get her days mixed up. Maybe the answer is as simple as they had mince the night before.

If he was lying about the BBQ the whole lot of them must have been. And I just cannot grasp these people sitting down together and deciding GBC should kill his wife to fix the money problems. How would that conversation have gone?





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[volunteer]

You know, he might. If he thought I was being railroaded, he might refuse to give a statement so he doesn't inadvertently give the police more ammunition. NBC was worried from early on that morning that the place was crawling with police, and most people know the spouse is the first person suspicion falls on; many people fear the police will look no further because the spouse is statistically the most likely person.

So, yeah, maybe my dad would give a statement because he thought he could help, but maybe he'd refuse because he thought it would be at best ignored by cops on a witch hunt, at worst used against me.

I think GBC is guilty. I think the rest of his clan weren't involved and he hasn't told them the truth. I think they are a close family who put a lot of emphasis on loyalty, and will stand by him despite private misgivings. I just also think a good sleuthing considers things from all angles, not just the ones that back up pet theories, and not just the ones that paint the suspect and his associates in a negative light. Look at NBC as an obstructionist aiding murder and you'll see him trying to remove evidence from the scene of the crime and refusing to co-operate with a police investigation; look at him as a man who is close to his children and who habitually helps them out and you'll see a man who wants to protect his son from being railroaded by suspicious police, a man who can't fix the missing daughter in law problem but can at least make sure that house gets vacuumed.

I agree with you Walk a Mile. I don't think the rest of the family are involved. I do think they are people with a sense of entitlement and I don't think they have a lot of sensitivity {remember the "granny pash"} etc. etc.and I think they are affronted by the fact that Gerard is even in the position he is in. But no, I really believe they think he is innocent.

I also think he has done it on his own. If he knew his girls were sound sleepers, I.M.O. he would take the risk and drive to Kolo Creek : it is not along trip by car with traffic conditions at that time of night. What else could he do with her? The adrenalin and panic would have given him the necessary strength to do it alone . I.M.O only

 

[Cattail]

I meant if Mt Cootha was the destination, would it make a difference if it was the back or front.

If Allison wanted enough detail about the affair to have GBC draw her a map of TM 'a house, then I could well believe that if she thought Mt Cootha was a rendezvous point she might ask him to take her there. They may have talked on the drive there and back rather than stop there to talk. And people saying gone half an hour could easily be 35 or 40 mins rather than exactly half an hour.

Maybe I am seeing the crime too simply, but this is another area where I just cannot see a point in GBC lying about it?


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[marlywings]

"Laughed at undies. Told me I smell."",Said I was so different. Laughed. Why? Afterwards why so mean? "
IMO this deeply personal response from GBC to Allison shows serious abuse. It shows his 'devaluation' of her, his 'rejection' of her body, her underwear and his 'contemptuous' feelings for her.

I am disappointed the PT did not highlight his true feelings of contempt for and rejection of Allison through this scenario. Yes, her diary notes were read out to Court, but a corresponding interpretation as being GBC's true feelings of contempt for Allison was missing. My opinion only.

I think he's showing his true feelings on the stand...he's still denigrating Allison, he's still mentally abusing her. And he knows darn well she can't defend herself.

In his mind, it's all her fault he's in the position he's in.

 

[possumheart]

And I just cannot grasp these people sitting down together and deciding GBC should kill his wife to fix the money problems. How would that conversation have gone?

Start with counselling to end the marriage (2009 from memory) and "She says she won't let us see the girls."

Men who assault their partners parent differently from other men.[iii] They tend to be under-involved with their children, use negative parenting practices such as spanking, shaming and displaying anger toward their children.[iv] They undermine and interfere with the other parent’s authority,[v] and are generally poor role models for developing healthy relationships and conflict resolution. [vi] Unfortunately, compared to non-batterering fathers, batterers are more likely to seek custody of their children, "and they may misuse the legal system as a symbolic battleground for continuing abuse through harassing and retaliatory litigation."[vii] http://www.stopvaw.org/child_custody_issues

 

[Freya1977]

If Allison wanted enough detail about the affair to have GBC draw her a map of TM 'a house, then I could well believe that if she thought Mt Cootha was a rendezvous point she might ask him to take her there. They may have talked on the drive there and back rather than stop there to talk. And people saying gone half an hour could easily be 35 or 40 mins rather than exactly half an hour.

Maybe I am seeing the crime too simply, but this is another area where I just cannot see a point in GBC lying about it?


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I think that's very reasonable, and quite possibly that's exactly what they did. Why Mt Coo-tha otherwise? I guess it's a nice spot and you could have a coffee but it seems like an out of the way location for such a brief visit if you have no other purpose.

 

[Makara]

You know, he might. If he thought I was being railroaded, he might refuse to give a statement so he doesn't inadvertently give the police more ammunition. NBC was worried from early on that morning that the place was crawling with police, and most people know the spouse is the first person suspicion falls on; many people fear the police will look no further because the spouse is statistically the most likely person.

So, yeah, maybe my dad would give a statement because he thought he could help, but maybe he'd refuse because he thought it would be at best ignored by cops on a witch hunt, at worst used against me.

I think GBC is guilty. I think the rest of his clan weren't involved and he hasn't told them the truth. I think they are a close family who put a lot of emphasis on loyalty, and will stand by him despite private misgivings. I just also think a good sleuthing considers things from all angles, not just the ones that back up pet theories, and not just the ones that paint the suspect and his associates in a negative light. Look at NBC as an obstructionist aiding murder and you'll see him trying to remove evidence from the scene of the crime and refusing to co-operate with a police investigation; look at him as a man who is close to his children and who habitually helps them out and you'll see a man who wants to protect his son from being railroaded by suspicious police, a man who can't fix the missing daughter in law problem but can at least make sure that house gets vacuumed.

You raise some good points, thank you. Over the last two years I've looked at this case from the perspective of all players involved. I've tossed the possibility back and forth that GBC is innocent, that NBC and other family members were not involved or complicit after the fact. I, and indeed all of us will never know the full details of how Allison died and her body dumped at Kholo Creek. Everything we've heard to date is circumstantial but when all of these pieces are woven together, IMO it does indeed point to GBC being guilty. The same also applies to NBC. There is just not one thing that he has or hasn't done, it is a culmination of a lot of things (some I'm not permitted to speak about here) that lead me to believe that he was involved in helping his son cover up Allison's murder.

 

[enthralled]

I agree. I find it hard to believe the rest of the BC family were involved. I think they are just bewildered that GBC has been accused. And possibly they aren't very nice people.

I also think that even though GBC is guilty it doesn't mean that everything he has said is a lie. For example some people have questioned the BBQ sausages. I really don't see why he would have lied over something like that.




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Unfortunately I don't believe one single thing that comes out of his mouth. That is what happens when you tell lies, in the end nobody believes a single word you say. GBC and Co have brought it all on themselves.

 

[volunteer]

You raise some good points, thank you. Over the last two years I've looked at this case from the perspective of all players involved. I've tossed the possibility back and forth that GBC is innocent, that NBC and other family members were not involved or complicit after the fact. I, and indeed all of us will never know the full details of how Allison died and her body dumped at Kholo Creek. Everything we've heard to date is circumstantial but when all of these pieces are woven together, IMO it does indeed point to GBC being guilty. The same also applies to NBC. There is just not one thing that he has or hasn't done, it is a culmination of a lot of things (some I'm not permitted to speak about here) that lead me to believe that he was involved in helping his son cover up Allison's murder.

Oh no ! Makara now you have me Rethinking about NBC.