PA - Assassination attempt, shooting injures former POTUS Donald Trump, leaves 1 spectator deceased two in critical condition, 13 July 2024 #5

[newclues]

Two things from the Sen. RJ reports referred to previously above.

There is a picture of TC talking on his cell phone that was taken by a sniper. Who was he talking with during this event? An accomplice or someone else? Didn't his parents not hear from him for some time during that day and called the police?

Also, there is mention that the SS was not going to provide snipers/countersnipers for this Butler event but later changed their minds. Thus, there are many questions as to why they didn't and then did given that their snipers made a big difference in the final outcome of things there?

 

[Cool Cats]

Two things from the Sen. RJ reports referred to previously above.

There is a picture of TC talking on his cell phone that was taken by a sniper. Who was he talking with during this event? An accomplice or someone else? Didn't his parents not hear from him for some time during that day and called the police?

Also, there is mention that the SS was not going to provide snipers/countersnipers for this Butler event but later changed their minds. Thus, there are many questions as to why they didn't and then did given that their snipers made a big difference in the final outcome of things there?

I think complacency.

Nothing had happened that dangerous for years so they just did not see the need. Probably bored waiting to get off shift. Starting to just do the minimum required.

Now look at them, completely the opposite.

This is how it seems to me

1
: self-satisfaction especially when accompanied by unawareness of actual dangers or deficiencies
When it comes to safety, complacency can be dangerous.

2
: an instance of usually unaware or uninformed self-satisfaction

 

[Chimera]

Two things from the Sen. RJ reports referred to previously above.

There is a picture of TC talking on his cell phone that was taken by a sniper. Who was he talking with during this event ? An accomplice or someone else ? Didn't his parents not hear from him for some time during that day and called the police ?

Also, there is mention that the SS was not going to provide snipers/countersnipers for this Butler event but later changed their minds. Thus, there are many questions as to why they didn't and then did given that their snipers made a big difference in the final outcome of things there?

Bbm.
Was it this SS person ?

Loading…

www.nytimes.com

ks-secret-service.html

Pics from link :





The photos were taken before or after the phone call.
Wonder if the person(s) he was speaking to will be revealed ?
Omo.

Eta : I'm interested in what happened in the 'before' more than the 'after'.
Why the delayed response ?
Imo.

 

[Chimera]

PA - Assassination attempt, shooting injures former POTUS Donald Trump, leaves 1 spectator deceased two in critical condition, 13 July 2024 #4

I assume that Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu travels with his own secret service equivalent from Israel, especially right now with what just happened to one of our own presidents. Israel's security detail has a reputation for being one of the best in the world, if not the best, and I...

www.websleuths.com

Post #196
Layer said : ".....Wray just tossed that out there without giving any more details. The way he said it made me think there was some kind of forensic evidence, like fingerprints or dna on the pipe. Perhaps a footprint on the "mechanical device." At the time I had a normal part of the building mechanical system in mind - drain pipe, A/C unit etc, but who knows?

With regards to the gun all I heard him say was speculation that the collapsible stock had made it easier to conceal/carry onto the roof. I got the impression that they still don't know how he or the gun got on the roof. He confirmed the number of shots taken....."
Snipped for focus.
Red emphasis mine.

It still hasn't been made clear about whether TC carried the gun to the roof via backpack/book bag , or if it was strapped to his back .
In all of the footage and photos I've seen in msm, TC and the gun which was moved are the only two objects in the frame.
Even blurred, it looks like just Crooks and the gun.

At the end of the roof, it looks like a local LEO standing next to one or two backpacks.

If one of those belonged to Crooks, did they handle it -- aka pick it up with ungloved hands and move it ?
Seems careless, but maybe a forensics or bomb disposal team had already looked inside it ?
What if it was rigged to explode.
He had a detonator for the explosives in his vehicle.
I wouldn't have touched his backpack.

Loading…

www.wsj.com

Some links showing what the LE officers would've seen when they walked on the roof ; the first shows a photo of TC's bike which has his backpack right next to it; I haven't yet found a photo or video showing TC's book bag or backpack next to his body:
Warning, some links are more graphic than others:

Last photo of Thomas Crooks taken by Secret Service

A photo of would-be assassin Thomas Crooks, that was circulated to law enforcement before the crazed gunman attempted to kill ex-president Donald Trump , has been released publicly.

www.dailymail.co.uk

From Fox 10 Phoenix Affiliate in AZ:

@0:24 and onwards there is a LEO standing next to two items.

Graphic video shows Thomas Crooks dead moments after Trump assassination attempt, confirms Secret Service was warned

The new video put online by Iowa Sen. Chuck Grassley shows part of Crooks’ lifeless body as a pool of blood trails along the roof where he shot at Trump earlier this month.

nypost.com

@00:17 -00:20

Blurred but it looks like it's just Crooks and the gun -- which was moved a few yards away.
Did he have a rifle strap or AR sling on his body ?
It's been long enough that I think the public should know this by now -- but since some of us do not -- I'm asking.
Imo.
Omo.

 

[Sundog]

It's a very convoluted situation. 'Butler ESU' was in charge of that sector but 'Butler ESU' is basically a fictitious entity that doesn't really exist in the normal sense of a police force. 'Butler ESU' is made up of a patchwork of cops and sheriffs from various jurisdictions in Butler that can be summoned from their regular cop jobs rather than being an independent police force. 'Butler ESU' then apparently used mutual aid to summon 'Beaver ESU' (a similar patchwork from Beaver) with 'Beaver ESU' coming under the banner of 'Butler ESU.' The snipers in question were doing an irregular activity for them as this wasn't some hostage situation plus they were very disconnected from their normal organization (Originating PD->Beaver ESU->Butler ESU->Pennsylvania State Police (they'd have to call into command on certain things, which was PSP)->Secret Service).

The issue that Senator Grassley is tryng to get at is to determine what the assigned coverage areas were for local LE (regional, state) and the location of the assigned positions for local LE.

Without knowing this information, it doesn't make sense to focus on local LE for not doing their jobs, or to minimize their abilities and experience, IMO. If they were stationed at their assigned positions by SS, and if they were securing their assigned coverage areas, then they are doing what SS asked them to do.

Looking forward to seeing Rowe's response to Grassley's latest request for information (Friday, August 9th).

EBM

 

[Chimera]

The issue that Senator Grassley is tryng to get at is to determine what the assigned coverage areas were for local LE (regional, state) and the location of the assigned positions for local LE.

Without knowing this information, it doesn't make sense to focus on local LE for not doing their jobs, or to minimize their abilities and experience, IMO. If they were stationed at their assigned positions by SS, and if they were securing their assigned coverage areas, then they are doing what SS asked them to do.

Looking forward to seeing Rowe's response to Grassley's latest request for information (Friday, August 9th).

EBM

There is much we don't know yet.

The greater burden would lie on the secret service if the local LEO's were under their jurisdiction for the rally.
Did PA LE have to report to the SS or let them know asap what they were discovering that day ?
Agreed regarding Rowe's response.
Should be interesting.
Omo.

 

[Chimera]

Gunman at Trump Rally Was Often a Step Ahead of the Secret Service

Text messages, obtained exclusively by The Times, indicate that some law enforcement officers were aware of Thomas Crooks earlier than previously known. And he was aware of them.

www.nytimes.com

It was then that the Secret Service decided to exclude the entire warehouse complex owned by AGR, including Building No. 6, which Mr. Crooks would later use, from its inner security perimeter.
This meant that on the day of the rally, Mr. Crooks was able to approach the building without passing through security screening.
Red emphasis mine.
Smh.

So even if TC had the rifle strapped to his back, or a backpack with the unassembled parts in it -- he would've bypassed any potential questioning ?

This is difficult to imagine either PA LE or the secret service being 'ok' with it.
Imo.

 

[zleuther]

Have these two NYT assets been posted?

Find the diagonal walkway (a walk from parking lot to building would head SSW)

Find the midpoint of that walkway

The roof corner nearest that midpoint is what NYT is highlighting...

(NYT)

ETA NYT says, "...the footage obtained by The New York Times through a public records request...includes
12 videos released on Thursday by the Butler Township Police Department" meaning there are
12 files, prolly something like: BWC2122ddd.mp4 replacing ddd with ours that we know...
107
109
110
125
...are already in this thread. Take it to the bank, above is just a screencap from one we don't have yet, say 111.

 

[Luna20]

Have these two NYT assets been posted?

Find the diagonal walkway (a walk from parking lot to building would head SSW)

Find the midpoint of that walkway

The roof corner nearest that midpoint is what NYT is highlighting...

(NYT)

What is the point you are trying to make? What are they highlighting it for? Find the diagonal walkway for what?

 

[zleuther]

Eta : I'm interested in what happened in the 'before' more than the 'after'.

Me, too.

122110: Butler Township Patrolman 1, TC aimed at him
...is my lingo, the narrator of the most famous bodycam so far.

It's crazy to imagine re-living what that bodycam saw. Here's what I would do, if I thought there was a local sniper at a highpoint N or NW of TC.

1. note location of TC = N side of roof
2. abandon sitting duck location
3. go to closest cover that might have options = behind own car
4. think a pistol might suffice, if the local sniper flushes TC right away
5. to let the local sniper flush from N side of roof = I should flush from S side of roof*
6. go to closest cover S of roof = trees

* TC dodging sniper bullets sure can't go N or E or W

Unless I'm mistaken, it seems like what we all saw Butler Township Patrolman 1 do was consistent with "thought there was a local sniper at a highpoint N or NW of TC".

 

[zleuther]

How many times have I recommended reading the WaPo "Radio" article?

6:08 “Someone’s on the roof,” a local officer radioed at 6:08 p.m. “I have someone on the roof with white shorts.”

To read the WaPo "Radio" article is to deduce that the screencap is from a bodycam, and the bodycam is worn by Butler Township Patrolman 3, and he's speaking the above on his radio.

Hindsight's 20/20 and all, but this is important. It was disastrous and counterproductive for Sniper Nicol to go "downstairs of building 1 to meet patrol to let them know suspect is around building".

1. Patrolman 3 didn't need to look at Nicol's texted photo
2. Patrolman 3 didn't need to see Nicol pointing this way or that way
3. Patrolman 3 coulda even fired a shot at the blurry figure on the corner of the roof, right from there near the water tower, except Nicol and/or his sniper partner was expected to still be posted at a sensible highpoint

The first (and prolly second) sighting of TC on the roof was back by the water tower. Heck, even the third person to see TC on the roof (Butler Township Patrolman 1, hands on roof ledge at 6:11) was still back by the water tower at 6:08.

https://vp.nyt.com/video/2024/08/08/122084_1_08_vi_trump_shooting_bodycam_wg_1080p.mp4

...all from...

New Footage From the Trump Assassination Attempt Shows a Frantic Police Effort to Reach the Gunman

Bodycam videos and other footage provide new insights into the law enforcement response and presence at the building where the shooter was positioned.

www.nytimes.com

 

[layer]

How many times have I recommended reading the WaPo "Radio" articlelike

Isn't it disturbing that we have so much transparency - information - bodycam videos, texts, photos, radio transcripts, reports, interviews etc... of local LE whose job is to keep the peace, while we have virtually nothing from the Secret Service whose actual job is to protect the president? What are they hiding?

 

[Bodine]

Isn't it disturbing that we have so much transparency - information - bodycam videos, texts, photos, radio transcripts, reports, interviews etc... of local LE whose job is to keep the peace, while we have virtually nothing from the Secret Service whose actual job is to protect the president? What are they hiding?

It's called the "Secret" service, not the "full transparency" service. Much like the CIA, regular citizen's aren't supposed to know how they do what they do. If we did know, those entities wouldn't be as effective as they are.

They had a bad day, it happens to all of us.

 

[layer]

It's called the "Secret" service, not the "full transparency" service. Much like the CIA, regular citizen's aren't supposed to know how they do what they do. If we did know, those entities wouldn't be as effective as they are.
They had a bad day, it happens to all of us.

Frankly I don't see how this agency could be any less effective. They got the president shot, one man killed, two critically wounded, and endangered everyone at the event. Without public scrutiny of their flagrantly flawed planning, decisions, actions and policies we should expect many more "bad days". And what if there actually was something nefarious going on?

 

[Bodine]

Frankly I don't see how this agency could be any less effective. They got the president shot, one man killed, two critically wounded, and endangered everyone at the event. Without public scrutiny of their flagrantly flawed planning, decisions, actions and policies we should expect many more "bad days". And what if there actually was something nefarious going on?

There wasn't. A very motivated perp got over on them.......end of story.

If they sucked so bad at their jobs, presidents and dignitaries would be getting shot at regularly.......they're not.

 

[Sundog]

There wasn't. A very motivated perp got over on them.......end of story.

If they sucked so bad at their jobs, presidents and dignitaries would be getting shot at regularly.......they're not.

Fortunately, our representatives in Congress will be able to determine who in the SS was responsible for the failures of July 13 and with new leadership (not Rowe but a permanent director who is selected following Senate confirmation) we will have better protection for our former and current presidents and candidates for the presidency. It's clear that egregious errors were made by the SS at Butler on July 13, errors we can see for ourself and admitted to by the interim director numerous times.

It wasn't just a "bad day," but a multitude of failures by the ageny that is charged with protecting our leaders at the highest level. We almost lost a former president and nominee for the next presidency. That is a failure of the highest degree for an agency charged to protect at all costs. Shameful, IMO.

 

[Bodine]

Fortunately, our representatives in Congress will be able to determine who in the SS was responsible for the failures of July 13 and with new leadership (not Rowe but a permanent director who is selected following Senate confirmation) we will have better protection for our former and current presidents and candidates for the presidency. It's clear that egregious errors were made by the SS at Butler on July 13, errors we can see for ourself and admitted to by the interim director numerous times.

It wasn't just a "bad day," but a multitude of failures by the ageny that is charged with protecting our leaders at the highest level. We almost lost a former president and nominee for the next presidency. That is a failure of the highest degree for an agency charged to protect at all costs. Shameful, IMO.

They're human, just like the people they are sworn to protect. There is no big conspiracy here, just human beings being fallible, just like you and I.

 

[Elley Mae]

Yeah lets just sweep this under the rug, move along.

 

[layer]

Fortunately, our representatives in Congress will be able to determine who in the SS was responsible for the failures of July 13 and with new leadership (not Rowe but a permanent director who is selected following Senate confirmation) we will have better protection for our former and current presidents and candidates for the presidency.

Sadly, there is no Senate confirmation for the director.
The director is appointed by, and serves at the pleasure of, the president of the United States, and is not subject to Senate confirmation. Source

 

[Sundog]

Sadly, there is no Senate confirmation for the director.

<snipped for focus>

Not yet, but there is a proposal that is going forth from Congress so that the appointment of a new director of the SS is appointed only after Senate confirmation.