General Discussion and Theories #2

[Snoofo]

And thanks to the pink panther for finding reference to the "active pursuit" of subletting! I feel less and less crazy as the minutes go by!

 

[Snoofo]

IMO, the whole "using the hangar" thing for OC is a moot point. There's a big difference between the Molson Brewery grow op scenario and the potential of the Waterloo hangar. Firstly, the City of Waterloo had dumped a millions right in front of the Millardair Hangar. This was invested for the economic spin offs of a top notch AMO. That's tax payers money and IMO, there's a level of expectation and accountability.

http://metronews.ca/news/kitchener/688568/waterloo-region-spent-5-4m-on-millardair/

The Airport Manager had already come calling to find out what was going on and that was well before TB was murdered. He states they were not operating in accordance to their lease.

http://kitchener.ctvnews.ca/activity-at-millard-air-hangar-not-what-airport-boss-expected-1.1302652

The only thing Millardair owns was the Hangar. They lease the land from the Airport, which is publicly owned.

"From 1951 to 1973 the Waterloo-Wellington Flying Club ran the airport and then sold it to Waterloo Region and the City of Guelph. It became a publicly owned airport and was renamed Waterloo Regional Airport. Today it operates 24 hours and seven days a week."

Region of Waterloo International Airport - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

IMO, the 50,000 square foot Millardair hangar with a bright red roof, sitting all by it's lonesome would be far too conspicuous. Further more, it's one thing to have drive by traffic, such as airport maintenance personnel who are constantly maintaining the grounds, aprons and roads, but to be flown over many, many times a day, sometimes by the call signs Oscar Papa Papa (aka OPP) and plus the "pot drones" that are actually developed in Waterloo

http://www.torontosun.com/2012/09/13/police-use-drones-to-spot-grow-ops-in-halton-region

JMHO, unless OC means "Optimistic Criminal", an airport would certainly would seem like an extremely risky location for criminal activities. :twocents: MOO

Wouldn't it figure someone links the article I was searching for all he while I was searching it! Thx MsS.

Ms S, sometimes the standout attention-grabbing places are so obvious that the opposite effect rings true and they are ignored. The unassuming places seem more OC styled IMO. Silly billy also addresses this and I agree with silly billy. If Molson weed went on that long, this place could too. Or it is only required for a short time before it is closed down and moved.

Also the millions poured by the Region to the hangar has not been specified. They spent 5.4mil in total and the cement at Millardair could cost $10,000 for all we know.

http://www.therecord.com/sports-story/3244013-public-cash-supported-failed-hangar-plan/

 

[MsSherlock]

<rsbm>

Yeah, I know ... but I am trying to consider the possibilities of alternate theories presented by other posters.

I wasn't thinking necessarily about the pot business with its related odours (effectively dealt with in the Molson operation situate across the highway from the Barrie detachment of the OPP), and those Drones only take aerial pictures, so anything conducted within a facility isn't going to show up. Was trying to consider any/all types of contraband involved in international smuggling.

I brought up the Molson's case though in light of the size of the operation, the building having been purchasesd / owned by a Toronto real estate developer whose family member was convicted, it seemed to have a lot of money and planning put into it, and the location was about as ballsey as you can get.

JMO

lol Silly..you just reminded me of the OPP's right across the road from Molsons! That was crazy! IMO, it's still a much better location than the Hangar in question.

 

[Blomquist]

That would be supposing that OC has no ability to think ahead.
But what if they do occasionally plan ahead? And leave false clues laying around where they are certain to be found?
Then when LE have to 'let the evidence lead', wouldn't it naturally lead them down the wrong paths?

I think OC has a habit of taking money/profit from existing business. People can fixate on the hangar being a means for OC to make money...but the other possibility which may or may not run in conjunction to that is the fact that OC likes to take a percentage of what is earned from businesses. It appears that a lot of trafficking has been found entering via Toronto airport IMO but Waterloo is just a short flight away. Maybe the runway was helpful for bringing in from TO and then 'deliveries' went out from there via road. DM would not necessarily have known the type of businesses being ran. OC would also try to put one of their own in a position to obtain rental for hangar and extract a portion for themselves.... there are so many possibilities here that it seems shortsighted for anyone to ignore it.....and I agree they would put a trail leading far away ftom themselves... moo

 

[Juballee]

Just catching up on some reading, and there have been some good points made. I think the lock on the trailer would have been simple to pick if that were required, but usually people/companies who have numerous vehicles with far more keys than one key ring holds have either a central place like a cabinet where they keep all the keys or they are left in the vehicles. Wouldn't it have been funny if the trailers were switched, DM's truck trailer for the smaller bike trailer? In a large area with so many vehicles, it could just be a thought of "hmmmm, something is different, but I can't put my finger on it..."

A fake phone name wouldn't necessarily mean that they know the real name of the phone's owner, it could have been registered to a Mr. I.P. Freely. And anyone who had the nerve to drive around in a truck with a trailer containing what every cop in Southern Ontario was looking for wouldn't be scared to talk to someone's mom should they prove to be home, in my opinion.

It wouldn't matter how many witnesses saw them if they were going about their normal business and are innocent and someone killed someone after they were the last person to see them. If the RBEG also disappeared, then I could see that being a pattern. But so far the pattern is two guys going for a few test drives. You could be the last person random witnesses happened to see going into a store before the owner is murdered, does that mean you were the last person there and that you killed them? What if someone was framing you and put stolen items from the store at your home, and then 'hid' the body in your yard while you weren't looking? Would that make you guilty?

OC doesn't need to acquire businesses and properties on paper and pay taxes for them. In my mind OC could have thought it was a good deal for Millardair to run the business as WM intended, let make Millardair make their own profits off of that, providing of course a small stipend to the organization, while they were going to make their real profits from the smuggling capabilities of the hanger. And I never said that planes coming and going wouldn't be searched by customs or boarder services, I put forth my opinion that the search would be more cursory and far less thorough because there are no passengers to search, no luggage to search, and only a small crew limited to personnel who already have special clearance in airports. Also, when they are in that hanger getting maintenance, wouldn't it be easier to disassemble parts of the plane to hide things better without anyone thinking anything of it, should CW stroll in for a chat, for example? And being a smaller airport, there are less people to bribe/blackmail/threaten if it becomes necessary.

To say someone must be guilty because they are still sitting in jail is like putting a cat in a bird cage and saying that it must be a bird, it is in a bird cage, is it not? It's not telling everyone it's a cat, it must therefore be a bird. I think it was even seen in a tree not just today, but also the day before: obviously it's a bird. And you have to ask for bail before you can get it. I believe DP said something about DM sitting tight and not asking for bail at this time, knowing he's in it for the long haul.

Lastly, burning a body on your own property so that if someone confronts you, you can tell them it's a bonfire and they're trespassing, would be an interesting idea, if burning wood smelled anything at all like burning flesh. Have you ever been to a pig roast?

 

[MsSherlock]

I think OC has a habit of taking money/profit from existing business. People can fixate on the hangar being a means for OC to make money...but the other possibility which may or may not run in conjunction to that is the fact that OC likes to take a percentage of what is earned from businesses. It appears that a lot of trafficking has been found entering via Toronto airport IMO but Waterloo is just a short flight away. Maybe the runway was helpful for bringing in from TO and then 'deliveries' went out from there via road. DM would not necessarily have known the type of businesses being ran. OC would also try to put one of their own in a position to obtain rental for hangar and extract a portion for themselves.... there are so many possibilities here that it seems shortsighted for anyone to ignore it.....and I agree they would put a trail leading far away ftom themselves... moo

Blomquist, from eyewitness accounts there where few planes ever seen at the hangar, mainly just cars parked out front. IMO, those smaller planes may have very well been friends of WM or CM popping by to see how things were going. Also, the airport manager said there wasn't the "large plane" traffic to the hangar as what was expected.

http://kitchener.ctvnews.ca/activity-at-millard-air-hangar-not-what-airport-boss-expected-1.1302652

Furthermore, it's a controlled airport, so the Tower has to clear planes to the ramps. The Millardair hangar was in a new development area and a good distance from the others. Planes constantly coming and going from a hangar that's not an AMO or a Fixed Base Operator (FBO) could throw some red flags...unless of course, the air traffic controllers are part of OC too.

IMO CM & WM, both being inventors and owners of some pretty cool patents were much more likely to be of interest to large companies like Boeing or Airbus or perhaps the US Military. JMHO, if we want to go the local OC wanting the hangar or airport access route, why not take it the full mile-perhaps NASA wanted the patent for the "Aircraft Takeoff Velocity Indicator System" and sent the CIA in?? :scared:

http://patents.justia.com/inventor/carl-w-millard
http://patents.justia.com/inventor/wayne-c-millard

Then again, IMO, DM & MS may be in jail for a good reason.

MOO

 

[Sillybilly]

It's not telling everyone it's a cat, it must therefore be a bird.

<snip>

It's not telling anyone anything ... because cats can't talk

jk

 

[Sillybilly]

lol Silly..you just reminded me of the OPP's right across the road from Molsons! That was crazy! IMO, it's still a much better location than the Hangar in question.

OT, but hey, ya know what's funnier? ... during the G8/G20 summits, LE leased space from the company that owned Molson's at the time of the bust (Bob D's brother VD is president, treasurer and secretary said company):

... The records released by the government state that unknown amounts of money went to other companies that, according to federal officials, chose not to reveal the terms of the contracts, including:

&#8226; Fercan Developments for office and warehouse space in Toronto for the RCMP, OPP and other police and security units ...

from:
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Comment/2007/11/12/4650594.php?comments_page=29

I guess space was hard to come by

 

[swedie]

Maybe DP framed DM knowing DM was going to hire him as a lawyer and knew DM had millions of dollars he could make off of him. :O Possibly DP is the kingpin of this suggested OC. Could it be DM's own mother framed him because she wanted his mutlimillions? If she did a fantastic job at framing him, she did well. Was she bitter with WM and had him murdered, convincing DM all that would then be his? Once WM was out of the picture, all she had to do was remove DM to gain his wealth. There could be the possibility DP and MB were in this together. Where they in on the OC?

If it looks like a bird, flies like a bird, has feathers like a bird, it very well could be a bird. If it looks like a cat, meows like a cat, chasing birds and rats like a cat, then it's likely a cat. If it looks like a rat, being chased by a cat, lives in a sewer or dump like a rat, smells like a rat, then it's probably a rat.

As far as my opinion goes in my above posts, it is MOO which I am entitled to. I base it solely on the way LE and the MSM are laying it out in limited and simple form. I don't see anything far fetched about their information to date. Two guys test drive a truck with, and belonging to an innocent family man, but they are not interested in purchasing the truck, they want to steal the truck using the excuse of the test drive as a means of getting the truck in their possession. The innocent man gets murdered and burnt to destroy evidence. The two men who committed the crime get caught and are in jail. Pretty cut and dry IMO. I added my opinion/theories/speculation obviously on what we do not know at this point or I have expanded on the few details we do have. Although there is a PB ban on this case, if this case has taken a drastic turn such as OC we would have been privy to it by now. MOO.

 

[swedie]

Please do not twist my words...I am here putting out theories the same as everyone else. Am I only allowed one rigid theory ? Or can I possibly be open to several ? I did not say anything about anyone being involved in a crime.... We are here to sleuth.... not criticize others suggestions. I have many opinions on many things.... JMO MOO

Respectfully:greetings::thumb::toastitto and likewise BQ! Just because I and/or others do not believe this is an OC involvement case, doesn't mean we cannot punch holes in that theory. Please feel free to punch holes in my theory when something does NOT fit. MO.

 

[Blomquist]

Just catching up on some reading, and there have been some good points made. I think the lock on the trailer would have been simple to pick if that were required, but usually people/companies who have numerous vehicles with far more keys than one key ring holds have either a central place like a cabinet where they keep all the keys or they are left in the vehicles. Wouldn't it have been funny if the trailers were switched, DM's truck trailer for the smaller bike trailer? In a large area with so many vehicles, it could just be a thought of "hmmmm, something is different, but I can't put my finger on it..."

A fake phone name wouldn't necessarily mean that they know the real name of the phone's owner, it could have been registered to a Mr. I.P. Freely. And anyone who had the nerve to drive around in a truck with a trailer containing what every cop in Southern Ontario was looking for wouldn't be scared to talk to someone's mom should they prove to be home, in my opinion.

It wouldn't matter how many witnesses saw them if they were going about their normal business and are innocent and someone killed someone after they were the last person to see them. If the RBEG also disappeared, then I could see that being a pattern. But so far the pattern is two guys going for a few test drives. You could be the last person random witnesses happened to see going into a store before the owner is murdered, does that mean you were the last person there and that you killed them? What if someone was framing you and put stolen items from the store at your home, and then 'hid' the body in your yard while you weren't looking? Would that make you guilty?

OC doesn't need to acquire businesses and properties on paper and pay taxes for them. In my mind OC could have thought it was a good deal for Millardair to run the business as WM intended, let make Millardair make their own profits off of that, providing of course a small stipend to the organization, while they were going to make their real profits from the smuggling capabilities of the hanger. And I never said that planes coming and going wouldn't be searched by customs or boarder services, I put forth my opinion that the search would be more cursory and far less thorough because there are no passengers to search, no luggage to search, and only a small crew limited to personnel who already have special clearance in airports. Also, when they are in that hanger getting maintenance, wouldn't it be easier to disassemble parts of the plane to hide things better without anyone thinking anything of it, should CW stroll in for a chat, for example? And being a smaller airport, there are less people to bribe/blackmail/threaten if it becomes necessary.

To say someone must be guilty because they are still sitting in jail is like putting a cat in a bird cage and saying that it must be a bird, it is in a bird cage, is it not? It's not telling everyone it's a cat, it must therefore be a bird. I think it was even seen in a tree not just today, but also the day before: obviously it's a bird. And you have to ask for bail before you can get it. I believe DP said something about DM sitting tight and not asking for bail at this time, knowing he's in it for the long haul.

Lastly, burning a body on your own property so that if someone confronts you, you can tell them it's a bonfire and they're trespassing, would be an interesting idea, if burning wood smelled anything at all like burning flesh. Have you ever been to a pig roast?

Excellent points Juballee..... and I agree.... I love the bird/cat analogy !!!

I seem to remember a few pics that were posted by someone who was working at the hangar and they had been knocking a wall down to put in a door for an office at the hangar... JMO based on memory though.... I wonder if whoever was renting/using the hangar had created a room between walls for storage. This could easily be done with good stone/brickwork...seems random but I do know of people with large homes that have created some very ingenious hiding spots for valuables ! Just a suggestion.

DM appears to me to be an easy going kind of guy from what I have read.... so imo I can see such a guy being very free and generous (as friends have agreed) to people he feels he can trust.

But as I have found out as I got older...many we feel can be trusted.... cannot be. JMO

 

[Curiositykitten]

Is it "generous" to buy friends?

All DM's supposed acts of generosity also benefited DM and put him in a position of control.

Without paying for his buddies' seadoos, he'd have no one to go seedooing with. Most other 27-year-olds have, you know, jobs.

I see nothing to indicate DM was generous and easy-going.

 

[Blomquist]

<snip>

It's not telling anyone anything ... because cats can't talk

jk

My cat tells me when he's hungry , when he's found an insect, when he want's attention etc etc..... he tells me. Maybe we should listen to what isn't being actually said in the scheme of things ..as it's often what communicates to us a lot more than what is spoken.....JMO ;-)

 

[Blomquist]

Is it "generous" to buy friends?

All DM's supposed acts of generosity also benefited DM and put him in a position of control.

Without paying for his buddies' seadoos, he'd have no one to go seedooing with. Most other 27-year-olds have, you know, jobs.

I see nothing to indicate DM was generous and easy-going.

That is your opinion I believe , although you did not put as such.

However, IMO someone with money who feels he could share some of it may well genuinely share it and feel happy about doing so. I know when I give to people I like to see the smile on their faces and see them enjoying the gift. I do not consider giving a gift to be buying anything.....unless one considers anothers happiness as something to remove oneself from.....Infact I would be upset that anyone would think such a thing and imo I would feel such a person was either jealous of the gifting or of my means to gift it.

I have seen, by reading the MSM comments from friends who have considered DM to be both humble and generous....my interpretation of that signals both generosity and and an easy going nature.

You do not need to buy people or have money to put oneself in a position of control IMO so your generalization in that regard IMO is and has to be your opinion not backed by fact. JMO

 

[Blomquist]

[/B]

'''''''' Originally Posted by Archangel7 View Post
So, now DM IS involved/but not criminally? So many convolutions....IMO'''''''''

Blomquist. View post '''''''Please do not twist my words...I am here putting out theories the same as everyone else. Am I only allowed one rigid theory ? Or can I possibly be open to several ? I did not say anything about anyone being involved in a crime.... We are here to sleuth.... not criticize others suggestions. I have many opinions on many things.... JMO MOO ''''''




Respectfully:greetings::thumb::toastitto and likewise BQ! Just because I and/or others do not believe this is an OC involvement case, doesn't mean we cannot punch holes in that theory. Please feel free to punch holes in my theory when something does NOT fit. MO.

I am not sure what you are getting at...but that post was in response to someone who was questioning my ability to have more than one opinion on the matter. I do not question anyone having the right to an opinion or several opinions....... that is why we are here isn't it? JMO

 

[Sillybilly]

My cat tells me when he's hungry , when he's found an insect, when he want's attention etc etc..... he tells me. Maybe we should listen to what isn't being actually said in the scheme of things ..as it's often what communicates to us a lot more than what is spoken.....JMO ;-)

Well, it was a joke BQ ... but if you wish to take it further, maybe it's what DM isn't saying that tells us more ... his silence doesn't really appear to be telling us or LE a damn thing.

MOO

 

[Sillybilly]

As far as my opinion goes in my above posts, it is MOO which I am entitled to. I base it solely on the way LE and the MSM are laying it out in limited and simple form. I don't see anything far fetched about their information to date. Two guys test drive a truck with, and belonging to an innocent family man, but they are not interested in purchasing the truck, they want to steal the truck using the excuse of the test drive as a means of getting the truck in their possession. The innocent man gets murdered and burnt to destroy evidence. The two men who committed the crime get caught and are in jail. Pretty cut and dry IMO. I added my opinion/theories/speculation obviously on what we do not know at this point or I have expanded on the few details we do have. Although there is a PB ban on this case, if this case has taken a drastic turn such as OC we would have been privy to it by now. MOO.

<rsbm>

At this point, that's my take as well, swedie (unless some really significant evidence/information comes out that points us in another direction).

 

[ellie b]

<rsbm>

At this point, that's my take as well, swedie (unless some really significant evidence/information comes out that points us in another direction).

Me too.

 

[dizzy1]

I have seen, by reading the MSM comments from friends who have considered DM to be both humble and generous....my interpretation of that signals both generosity and and an easy going nature.

You do not need to buy people or have money to put oneself in a position of control IMO so your generalization in that regard IMO is and has to be your opinion not backed by fact. JMO

JW if you could provide links of the MSM interviews with DM's friends describing him as humble and generous. IIRC, DP described him as humble, but I don't remember a friend describing him as such. I do recall one interview with what I thought may have been a cousin (?) of DM's, but haven't been able to locate it. TIA

 

[lanman]

Two guys test drive a truck with, and belonging to an innocent family man, but they are not interested in purchasing the truck, they want to steal the truck using the excuse of the test drive as a means of getting the truck in their possession. The innocent man gets murdered and burnt to destroy evidence. The two men who committed the crime get caught and are in jail

Sounds about right to me as well. I'm really interested to see what kind of defense they can come up with for all this, assuming LE has plenty of forensic evidence and the visual ID's from SB and the other guy are positive.