General Discussion and Theories #2

[Blomquist]

In pictures I've seen on friends' FB pages, the Waterloo hangar looked very much like this photo - very clean, two planes, one helicopter, no toys. Some of those were from October 2012, so it's hard to say when the toys arrived that AS was complaining about in November.

It's interesting that Premier Aviation was also an exhibitor at that Trade Show.

If the Windsor project started getting results in September, and AS was still unable to produce any signed contracts, it's also conceivable that's when Millard Air lost hope, confronted AS, and started looking for other options.

JMO, but I'm beginning to see a clearer trail of events here.
The tenant in Windsor, Premier Aviation, gets it's first customer in September.
DM confronts AS mid-November.
WM commits suicide end of November. (Maybe lost hope and realized his mistake of trusting in AS.)

It's pretty clear to me who was making the money off this venture. Also understandable why someone would be angry about losing his gravy train.

This all reminds me of an obituary that many thought was unacceptable. "His hope was for a time when cooperation would be the norm and competition was only friendly. He was frugal with himself and generous to others."

JMO

It's almost like someone was preventing the business from getting off the ground...in more ways than one JMO

 

[dizzy1]

Wow, $23 million. I guess Waterloo had a great deal.

JMO

Um, not really sure what this means??? Could you explain? It doesn't seem to have anything to do with my link that you quoted, at least I don't see anything about $23,000,000? TIA

 

[Blomquist]

Premier Aviation ...hmmm

Nothing like a bit of 'friendly' competition. Looks like they took over Aveos Fleet who was the MRO for Air Canada...now they have half of Air Canada working for them. I wonder how they managed that ?

Looks like they are also linked to another big (understatement) corporation. Maybe this defense corp helped them out a bit ???

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/glob...-business-rehire-some-workers/article7018382/

From the PA base near Montreal to Windsor they have it covered.... all they need now is one spot somewhere in the middle and then they have literally 'got it totally covered' IMO .... Ontario that is....

 

[lanman]

Premier Aviation ...hmmm

Nothing like a bit of 'friendly' competition. Looks like they took over Aveos Fleet who was the MRO for Air Canada...now they have half of Air Canada working for them. I wonder how they managed that ?

Looks like they are also linked to another big (understatement) corporation. Maybe this defense corp helped them out a bit ???

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/glob...-business-rehire-some-workers/article7018382/

From the PA base near Montreal to Windsor they have it covered.... all they need now is one spot somewhere in the middle and then they have literally 'got it totally covered' IMO .... Ontario that is....

Following up on the Premier Aviation article I posted yesterday has certainly provided links to some very interesting articles about the MRO business in Canada. Specifically, the word "MOTIVE" comes to mind as far as DM and his fathers apparent suicide.

"As for MRO for narrow bodies, I would not want to be in that market under any circumstances," Edwards said."

http://www.windsorsquare.ca/2011/02/another-fly-in-the-sky-edgar-boondoggle/

If I'm not mistaken, the Millard hanger was designed to handle jets as large as 757's, which are narrow body jets.

 

[Blomquist]

Following up on the Premier Aviation article I posted yesterday has certainly provided links to some very interesting articles about the MRO business in Canada. Specifically, the word "MOTIVE" comes to mind as far as DM and his fathers apparent suicide.

"As for MRO for narrow bodies, I would not want to be in that market under any circumstances," Edwards said."

http://www.windsorsquare.ca/2011/02/another-fly-in-the-sky-edgar-boondoggle/

If I'm not mistaken, the Millard hanger was designed to handle jets as large as 757's, which are narrow body jets.

What do you mean as motive? I see no motive here for DM to kill his father if thats what you mean. JMO I do however see that there was some strong, if not forceful competition for contracts. PA appears out of nowhere takes many Air Canada workers and Aveos workers too. What was the incentive or the force behind that I wonder. Lockheed Martin is in on this too.... taking workers from Aveos... either Aveos was forced out of business or was a willing participant for some reason IMO.... Either way it draws attention to the 'friendly or not so friendly ' competition that is now apparent for last two - three years. It will be interesting to see who eventually ends up with the keys to the Breslau hangar.... Don't many businesses have various locations ? Premier Aviation refuses to say how it is financed, maybe it has a very influential corporation helping it out? Perhaps thats how they came to salvage workers etc from the collapsing Aveos....mutual appreciation so to speak. Premier also has a location in New York....which is owned by another big business entity.... friends in high places as it were ! IMO Your guess is as good as mine how this relates to MillardAir...but it certainly IMO opens up a few avenues for thought.....JMO

 

[Snoofo]

Following up on the Premier Aviation article I posted yesterday has certainly provided links to some very interesting articles about the MRO business in Canada. Specifically, the word "MOTIVE" comes to mind as far as DM and his fathers apparent suicide.

"As for MRO for narrow bodies, I would not want to be in that market under any circumstances," Edwards said."

http://www.windsorsquare.ca/2011/02/another-fly-in-the-sky-edgar-boondoggle/

If I'm not mistaken, the Millard hanger was designed to handle jets as large as 757's, which are narrow body jets.

Bbm
Please explain DM motive you refer to. I'm confused. I can understand how this would explain a suicide but not what I think you could be suggesting.

Nice find with PA business. It sure helps to have a fuller picture of this specific industry.

 

[Curiositykitten]

<modsnip>

Up until now, I thought you were arguing that DM was smart to get out of the MRO business.

But now, it looks like you're saying that this was such a great business that others were up to all sorts of shenanigans just to get a piece of it.

So, was the Millardair MRO a good idea in your opinion? And if so, then what exactly went wrong to make DM shut it down just after the certification came through?-

<modsnip>

 

[Blomquist]

Up until now, I thought you were arguing that DM was smart to get out of the MRO business.

But now, it looks like you're saying that this was such a great business that others were up to all sorts of shenanigans just to get a piece of it.

So, was the Millardair MRO a good idea in your opinion? And if so, then what exactly went wrong to make DM shut it down just after the certification came through?-

I am going to say this one more time. I have several opinions not just one. I am allowed to have several as are you and anyone else. I will not constantly be defending my right to sleuth with as many opinions as I choose. We have no answers as yet so keeping an open mind and looking at all angles is what I am doing and for that matter what I think everyone else should be doing but thats just MOO and not a dictate.

Secondly... I am trying to show a correlation to the situation at MillardAir and what may have been the situation as to: 1. why WM was found dead 2. What the dynamic was between the 'friendly' competition as was mentioned in the obit. I hope that helps you grasp where I am coming from.... I think that in life in general instead of questioning peoples thought processes at every opportunity people could try directing that energy into sleuthin' the truth of what happens in life or lifes situations.... just speaking generally.....MOO

 

[Snoofo]

http://www.premieraviation.ca/news.php
Check out November 2012.

 

[Alethea Dice]

Um, not really sure what this means??? Could you explain? It doesn't seem to have anything to do with my link that you quoted, at least I don't see anything about $23,000,000? TIA

Sorry dizzy, somehow I quoted the wrong post. It should have been this one.

I'm not suggesting in any way this has any links with this case, but it is a very interesting story.

http://blogs.windsorstar.com/2012/09/24/mro-hangar-occupied-by-first-customer/

I was referring to the $23,000,000 that Windsor spent for the hangar. It seems Windsor paid the whole cost. It makes the Waterloo investment seem like mere peanuts.

 

[Blomquist]

http://www.premieraviation.ca/news.php
Check out November 2012.

''Our increased size now allows us to assure our contracted customers slot availability, as their fleets grow as well as offers a choice of locations.''

This part ?

 

[Alethea Dice]

I'm confused Blomquist.

Up until now, I thought you were arguing that DM was smart to get out of the MRO business.

But now, it looks like you're saying that this was such a great business that others were up to all sorts of shenanigans just to get a piece of it.

rsbm

I'm not so sure these are two different things.

JMO

 

[Alethea Dice]

http://www.premieraviation.ca/news.php
Check out November 2012.

Imagine hearing that news when your own MRO certificate just finally came in.

JMO

 

[Blomquist]

Does this look to be the correct owner of Empire Aero Center, the NY location of Premier Aviation ?

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_Aerospace_Industries"]Israel Aerospace Industries - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

 

[Alethea Dice]

Premier Aviation ...hmmm

Nothing like a bit of 'friendly' competition. Looks like they took over Aveos Fleet who was the MRO for Air Canada...now they have half of Air Canada working for them. I wonder how they managed that ?

Looks like they are also linked to another big (understatement) corporation. Maybe this defense corp helped them out a bit ???

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/glob...-business-rehire-some-workers/article7018382/

From the PA base near Montreal to Windsor they have it covered.... all they need now is one spot somewhere in the middle and then they have literally 'got it totally covered' IMO .... Ontario that is....

These new findings are a lot for my tired brain to compute tonight. Am I following this right?

Air Canada squeezes out Aveos Fleet Performance by deferring and cancelling maintenance work. Air Canada is "disappointed" by Aveos' financial problems but has contingency plans in place.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/squeezed-by-air-canada-aircraft-repair-firm-aveos-shuts-down/article534934/

Lockheed seems to be the contingency plans and steps in, hires some of the Aveos employees and buys their tools and equipment at auction, along with their building in Montreal. They open a new facility called Kelly Aviation Centre affiliated with the one based in San Antonio. (How far is San Antonio from Austin? An hour, hour and a half?)

The rest of Aveos gets pieced out to Lufthansa, A. J. Walter, and 5 other companies which includes Premier.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-investor/lockheed-subsidiary-to-buy-aveos-repair-business-rehire-some-workers/article7018382/

What is Premier's connection to Lockheed? Is there one? Ownership, affiliation or anything?

And then this...

The MRO industry has migrated to Asia, Latin America and other low-cost regions, he said, and players outside those areas must have a well-defined and major competitive advantage…

As for MRO for narrow bodies, I would not want to be in that market under any circumstances," Edwards said.

"The margins are very, very low, so I assume (Premier) feels they have some niche or some edge." (François Shalom, Montreal Gazette January 8, 2011)

What is the niche or edge that Premier has or feels they have?

Can anyone please let me know whatever I might not be following correctly?

JMO

 

[Snoofo]

''Our increased size now allows us to assure our contracted customers slot availability, as their fleets grow as well as offers a choice of locations.''

This part ?

That part, yes, and more so the next paragraph announcement they 're the biggest, certified and up and running. The same month some major stuff happens with Millards.
I wonder if DM was privy to what contracts PA landed and whether they were same as ones on AS list. What else did he know Or think?

I wonder if Texas connection made him suspicious. (I.e
Parent co. in San Antonio, AS in Austin?

 

[Juballee]

I have a feeling that if DM hadn't known before which contracts AS was supposed to be chasing, I am sure he would have asked for a copy of a list of them, or something, at the heated meeting as some sort of proof that AS was actually trying to accomplish his job, especially if his preformance was being questioned. Knowing that your competition now has both of Canada's largest operators under long term heavy maintenance agreements might have underscored something else as well.

 

[Blomquist]

http://www.premieraviation.ca/news.php
Check out November 2012.

http://romesentinel.com/news?newsid=20110218-142011

a few quotes from the article :

All Premier locations are geographically advantageous, situated within one hour of eight of the largest airports in North America.

(And of course Breslau would be within one hour of Toronto airport even by road)

Premier says it plans to use the new space to fulfill contracts for new and existing commercial and military customers. It inherited a military maintenance contract that Premier Aviation will try to leverage that legacy contract into more business in the defense sector.

Stepping up the military/defense sector.....makes you feel all warm and fuzzy now doesn't it?

At its peak, Empire Aero had some 475 permanent and contract employees. Accordingly, a concerted effort was made to keep the business a going concern in 2009 and 2010 even if under new ownership and a new name. Empire Aero was owned by Israel Aerospace Industries.

Am I reading this correctly ? A concerted effort was made to keep the business a going concern in 2009 and 2010, even if under new ownership and a new name So is Premier Aviation the new name ???

 

[Alethea Dice]

Does this look to be the correct owner of Empire Aero Center, the NY location of Premier Aviation ?

Israel Aerospace Industries - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I think I'm missing something?

http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/private/snapshot.asp?privcapId=6533450

It was formerly known as Commodore Aviation, Inc. and changed its name to Empire Aero Center, Inc. in 2004. The company was incorporated in 1978 and is based in Rome, New York. As of October 13, 2010, Empire Aero Center, Inc. operates as a subsidiary of Premier Aviation Overhaul Center, Inc.

 

[Blomquist]

I think I'm missing something?

http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/private/snapshot.asp?privcapId=6533450

Interesting isn't it ?

So Premier Aviation is a new name for Empire Aero Center ??

http://www.uticaod.com/news/x131497...Empire-Aero-approved-for-Empire-Zone-benefits

Premier Aviation would be taking on Empire Aero’s existing contracts, making a more than $2 million investment and growing to 275 employees over the course of three years, according to the document.

Empire Aero said in February that its parent company, Israel Aerospace Industries, was pursuing a buyer in order to avoid closing the center, and that the about 200 workers remaining could have to be laid off if a deal isn’t reached. Layoffs were conducted in May, but Empire Aero has not released the number of workers impacted.

When we add your quote ''It was formerly known as Commodore Aviation, Inc. and changed its name to Empire Aero Center, Inc. in 2004. The company was incorporated in 1978 and is based in Rome, New York. As of October 13, 2010, Empire Aero Center, Inc. operates as a subsidiary of Premier Aviation Overhaul Center, Inc. ''

It makes more sense.... hmm