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MsSherlock said:
Blomquist, IMO, a thrill kill is not a crazy idea and my question on framing wasn't pertaining to murders that are made to look like suicides. IIRC, TPS have reopened their investigation into the suicide death of WM with the thoughts that it may have been a homicide. IMO, that's very different than framing someone for a death that's deemed a homicide right from the start. My question was "where are we finding the expertise and information pertaining to framing?" I was hoping for modern day examples where accused murderers have in fact been framed. The only places I've seen such elaborate schemes have been in movies like Borne Identity. MOO
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Plenty of examples out there try googling .....

Thrill kill ..... wow I will google these ...... :facepalm:
 
sillybilly said:
<bbm>

ITA ... from one who knows. One or two hitmen, maybe a couple of grand or simply in exchange for a drug debt, and bang, you're dead. Simple as that.
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Geeezzz thats not very exciting is it !!!!

:violin:

Oh well I am off to see Morpheus ....as in safe in the arms of...... nighty night sleuthsters...

:eek:fftobed:
 
Blomquist said:
Geeezzz thats not very exciting is it !!!!

:violin:

Oh well I am off to see Morpheus ....as in safe in the arms of...... nighty night sleuthsters...

:eek:fftobed:
Click to expand...

No, it's not very exciting and certainly not very elaborate. Just to the point ... no need to go through a bunch of hoopla.

Sleep tight :)
 
Blomquist said:
Plenty of examples out there try googling .....

Thrill kill ..... wow I will google these ...... :facepalm:
Click to expand...
Blomquist, with all due respect, I'm not the one making the statements about what framers do, how they behave and how they go about their business. IMO, it's very important to everyone to be able to differentiate between comments that are shear fantasy/speculation and those based on known facts. IMO, there have been many comments thrown out there about "framing" without proper links to what appears to be facts trying to discredit comments that do have proper links and facts. If there are actual facts anywhere about people being framed for murders since modern DNA analysis, it would be only fair to provide them. IMO if I was making the assertion that DM had been abducted by aliens and was under some form of mind control I would be posting links/research info etc. to show how I was coming to this conclusion, where it had happened before etc. and not just trying to make the case fit my alien abduction theory. MOO
 
Blomquist said:
Plenty of examples out there try googling .....

Thrill kill ..... wow I will google these ...... :facepalm:
Click to expand...

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thrill_killing"]Thrill killing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame] IMO, I think it may properly describe what happened to TB.
 
 
MsSherlock said:
Blomquist, with all due respect, I'm not the one making the statements about what framers do, how they behave and how they go about their business. IMO, it's very important to everyone to be able to differentiate between comments that are shear fantasy/speculation and those based on known facts. IMO, there have been many comments thrown out there about "framing" without proper links to what appears to be facts trying to discredit comments that do have proper links and facts. If there are actual facts anywhere about people being framed for murders since modern DNA analysis, it would be only fair to provide them. IMO if I was making the assertion that DM had been abducted by aliens and was under some form of mind control I would be posting links/research info etc. to show how I was coming to this conclusion, where it had happened before etc. and not just trying to make the case fit my alien abduction theory. MOO
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With all due respect, the lead detective in the case is directly quoted as believing that this is not a so-called "thrill kill";

http://read.thestar.com/#!/article/...aster-man-was-killed-inside-truck-source-says

And the defence attorney has hardly said anything at all about the actual case, other than to suggest that there may be a framing aspect to it;

http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/sunnews/canada/archives/2013/05/20130515-125934.html

I don't really think that is as outrageous as a UFO story.

Someone a while back posted a great article about a woman who had spent quite a bit of time in jail after being framed by an ex boyfriend, and in that instance, without one of the framers coming forward, she would still be in jail, despite her trying to assist the police and pleading her innocence loudly from the beginning. If that person hadn't come forward, we never would have even heard her story. There is no telling how many other innocent people are sitting in jail, waiting for someone to find the right clues or confess. Also, in every case of wrongful conviction or framing that I can think of, the accused usually pleaded innocence right from the beginning and everything that they said to try to clear up the matter or assist police was turned and used against them.
 
Juballee said:
With all due respect, the lead detective in the case is directly quoted as believing that this is not a so-called "thrill kill";

http://read.thestar.com/#!/article/...aster-man-was-killed-inside-truck-source-says

And the defence attorney has hardly said anything at all about the actual case, other than to suggest that there may be a framing aspect to it;

http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/sunnews/canada/archives/2013/05/20130515-125934.html

I don't really think that is as outrageous as a UFO story.

Someone a while back posted a great article about a woman who had spent quite a bit of time in jail after being framed by an ex boyfriend, and in that instance, without one of the framers coming forward, she would still be in jail, despite her trying to assist the police and pleading her innocence loudly from the beginning. If that person hadn't come forward, we never would have even heard her story. There is no telling how many other innocent people are sitting in jail, waiting for someone to find the right clues or confess. Also, in every case of wrongful conviction or framing that I can think of, the accused usually pleaded innocence right from the beginning and everything that they said to try to clear up the matter or assist police was turned and used against them.
Click to expand...

Exactly thank you.... and all the 'thrill kill' examples listed above do not compare in this case IMO....

I find the framing possibility far more plausible than a so called 'Thrill Kill' .... I'm sure if it was the thrill of the kill that was wanted.... there were more exciting ways to get such pleasure ...and I doubt such an effort would have been needed to 'hide' evidence...more than likely everything would have gone up in flames with a war dance being danced around it JMO
 
Juballee said:
With all due respect, the lead detective in the case is directly quoted as believing that this is not a so-called "thrill kill";

http://read.thestar.com/#!/article/...aster-man-was-killed-inside-truck-source-says
Click to expand...
<rsbm>

If you read the part about potential thrill kill in it's entirety, it says:


But the lead investigator in the case denied that police were looking at the possibility the homicide may have been just for a thrill.


&#8220;I don&#8217;t know the motive for this,&#8221; Det. Sgt. Matt Kavanagh said Thursday. &#8220;I don&#8217;t even know what thrill kill means. It&#8217;s not been discussed. Where it&#8217;s coming from, I don&#8217;t know.&#8221;
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The first paragraph ^^ part seems to be reporter interpretation. The second paragraph is the direct quote by Det Kavanagh which indicates they don't know the motive, so how could thrill kill possibly be ruled out. I have previously stated that, IMO, any homicide investigator knows the meaning of the term.
 
sillybilly said:
<rsbm>

If you read the part about potential thrill kill in it's entirety, it says:




The first paragraph ^^ part seems to be reporter interpretation. The second paragraph is the direct quote by Det Kavanagh which indicates they don't know the motive, so how could thrill kill possibly be ruled out. I have previously stated that, IMO, any homicide investigator knows the meaning of the term.
Click to expand...

But he does, however, state that the idea of a thrill kill has not even been discussed and that he doesn't know where the suggestion came from.

If this was simply a "thrill kill", why steal the truck and have more evidence to have to get rid of? Why not just grab someone anywhere? Less chance of leaving evidence pointing back at yourself.

JMO
 
Alethea Dice said:
But he does, however, state that the idea of a thrill kill has not even been discussed and that he doesn't know where the suggestion came from.

If this was simply a "thrill kill", why steal the truck and have more evidence to have to get rid of? Why not just grab someone anywhere? Less chance of leaving evidence pointing back at yourself.

JMO
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When one part of his statement would seem to be suspect, what makes us think the remainder of his statement is factual? LE is allowed to put out misinformation to protect an investigation.

I'm not actually convinced that the test drive itself would have been part of any thrill, but it is possible that once things went south, and TB was dead, it would not be out of the question that a thrill may have been involved in the burning of his body ... kinda like ye olde bush party scenario. Dunno ... just discussing the possibility.
 
Although I'm not a huge fan of the OC frame theory, there are other types of incidences that would also fall under the term of being "framed" for a murder. I did a quick google search and, although they don't have much in common with this case, neither did the thrill kill links IMO. Here are some samples (including the one I posted last month):

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/26/nyregion/a-revenge-plot-so-intricate-the-prosecutors-were-pawns.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

http://www.law.northwestern.edu/legalclinic/wrongfulconvictions/exonerations/il/joseph-burrows.html

http://news.discovery.com/human/life/famous-framed-criminals-20130610.htm

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/09/opinion/09kristof.html?_r=0

http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/article/Did-Texas-execute-an-innocent-man-1559704.php

And this one is out of India, but is a horror story that, as the author says, should frighten everybody.

http://www.tehelka.com/framed-the-aarushi-hemraj-murder-case-an-investigation/
 
sillybilly said:
When one part of his statement would seem to be suspect, what makes us think the remainder of his statement is factual? LE is allowed to put out misinformation to protect an investigation.

I'm not actually convinced that the test drive itself would have been part of any thrill, but it is possible that once things went south, and TB was dead, it would not be out of the question that a thrill may have been involved in the burning of his body ... kinda like ye olde bush party scenario. Dunno ... just discussing the possibility.
Click to expand...

I see what you're saying, but I don't personally find any of his statement suspect. He's saying he doesn't know what the motive is and that a thrill kill hasn't been discussed. It doesn't mean it's been ruled out, but it doesn't sound like it's on the top of their list either.

JMO
 
sillybilly said:
Thrill kill examples:

http://www.humanevents.com/2013/08/...d-ww2-vet-beaten-to-death-by-black-teenagers/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/26/christopher-lane-murder-race-not-motive_n_3816705.html

http://www.nationalenquirer.com/true-crime/demonic-thrill-kill-teens-dismemberment-horror

http://murderpedia.org/male.L/l/lesko-john.htm

http://www.kake.com/news/headlines/...Know-What-It-Felt-Like-To-Kill-211669341.html

http://www.8newsnow.com/story/2899492/suspects-arrested-in-apparent-thrill-kill-murder

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/...n-spader-thrill-kill/christopher-gribble.html
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LE were not certain it was a 'thrill kill' probably due to this part of the definition. not necessarily suffering from mental instability. Examinations/testing would need to be done to show if the murderers suffer from any mental instabilities. Kav wasn't sure what the definition of 'thrill kill' meant in the early stage of the investigation, but I assume he does now. Wonder if he would classify it now as a 'thrill kill'. IMHO to kill anyone with bad/evil intentions shows mental instability. In the case of LB, once (if) her case is solved, we may get a better idea per suggestion the sexual part of the definition I underlined and bolded. :moo:

A thrill killing is premeditated murder committed by a person who is not necessarily suffering from mental instability, and does not derive sexual satisfaction from killing victims, or have anything against them, and sometimes does not know them, but is instead motivated by the sheer excitement of the act.

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thrill_killing"]Thrill killing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]
 
Question I am posing as I am sure you MAy know the answer!

1.How long does it take for Forensic results to be done?...it was mention when his body was found...( DNA results found in all the evidence taken by LE....for example: TB Ram Truck , inciderator...etc...)

Tim Bosma is dealth is approx. 3 mths ago.

2.What would be the procedure for the results to be released to DM & MS defence team?

3. Curious as to how the defense will react...I guess we may hear more at the pre trial...date please....I thought it was Sept.?......thanks ahead of time to anyone who MAY answer.....

It certainly would be nice to see this move forward a bit....PB may stop us from hearing anything....I suppose....robynhood.
 
robynhood said:
Question I am posing as I am sure you MAy know the answer!

1.How long does it take for Forensic results to be done?...it was mention when his body was found...( DNA results found in all the evidence taken by LE....for example: TB Ram Truck , inciderator...etc...)

Tim Bosma is dealth is approx. 3 mths ago.

2.What would be the procedure for the results to be released to DM & MS defence team?

3. Curious as to how the defense will react...I guess we may hear more at the pre trial...date please....I thought it was Sept.?......thanks ahead of time to anyone who MAY answer.....

It certainly would be nice to see this move forward a bit....PB may stop us from hearing anything....I suppose....robynhood.
Click to expand...

Robynhood....not sure who you are asking but since I see no other replies I will answer.


1. Forensic results on DNA can be done quickly within an hour or two(for example the quick DNA ID on Osama Bin Laden's body). If the sample area has been bleached, washed with Oxyclean, water, peroxide yada, yada,(perps tried to cleanup and destroy evidence) the sample is usually taken and "grown" for ~60 days and now with a good sample base it can be tested in about 8-10 hours. However, USUALLY there is a big backlog of other cases and their samples and only a few certified crime labs. So there is no set period of time but 3 months is a good representative time frame.

2. The short answer is that all disclosure has been done by now or it could be considered finished just before Judicial Pretrial. Of course in the strict meaning of disclosure, it can continue into and thru trail until a jury deliberates. The Crown is responsible for providing accused's counsel with what it knows evidence-wise, including witness lists. It is the right of the accused in criminal code/cases. DP requested a Prelim. Inquiry so he would have received some discovery there.

3. I think you have probably already witnessed most of the defense "strategy." Minus the fact each will likely throw the other under the bus.
The next court date, Sept. 12th, is to set a Judicial Pretrial date.

Hope this helps........
 
Alethea Dice said:
I see what you're saying, but I don't personally find any of his statement suspect. He's saying he doesn't know what the motive is and that a thrill kill hasn't been discussed. It doesn't mean it's been ruled out, but it doesn't sound like it's on the top of their list either.

JMO
Click to expand...

You don't find it suspect that an experienced homicide investigator says "I don't even know what thrill kill means"? I simply don't believe he does not know the meaning.

Disinformation can be deliberately spread to the public to further an investigation (not the same as misinformation, which is not deliberate).
 
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