General Discussion and Theories #3

[Blomquist]

Regardless of what those on WS think of TPS and their investigation into LB's disappearance, our only knowledge comes from what is being reported in MSM.

SL has had to deal with them directly for over a year now and not only commented on their "utterly incompetent bureaucracy" after the first search, but also plans to file a formal complaint against them in the future, according to his statement on the "Help Us Find Laura" FB page.

I am surprised that he hasn't done it already...or he parents...

If they were taken to task every time, by those they are supposed to be working for, I imagine they would be more vigilant and more of a civilian servant JMO

 

[Variant]

Regardless of what those on WS think of TPS and their investigation into LB's disappearance, our only knowledge comes from what is being reported in MSM.

SL has had to deal with them directly for over a year now and not only commented on their "utterly incompetent bureaucracy" after the first search, but also plans to file a formal complaint against them in the future, according to his statement on the "Help Us Find Laura" FB page.

Although his concerns were about lack of timely action in investigating DM after he provided them a lead on LB's disappearance. As I recall he was not complaining about the first search, but his comments were triggered by the press conference.

I expect that he, for want of a better word, welcomes the level of search activity TPS is now undertaking and will understand why it took time to get approval for this level of search of the DM farm.

I wonder what SL would say about the contingent on WS that keeps impugning his motives and implying that he is guilty of LB's disappearance or a framer of DM or both.

 

[SnooperDuper]

I, for one, lean toward an OC connection, however I don't know enough about OC to specify which group would be involved. My feeling is that it wasnt limited to a local operation if drug-related. Local if car-related. Jmo!

IMO, OC was not involved because they would have given him instructions on how to be smarter with phones...seeing as phones can easily link someone to all of their associates. E.g., use a payphone or show up in person at the biker bar. Don't call everyone you know and your victims on the same phone.

ETA: OC doesn't consider cell phones secure because you can pick up their signal and listen in. So landline or don't call. A visit to the clubhouse it best.

 

[Snoofo]

IMO, OC was not involved because they would have given him instructions on how to be smarter with phones...seeing as phones can easily link someone to all of their associates. E.g., use a payphone or show up in person at the biker bar. Don't call everyone you know and your victims on the same phone.

ETA: OC doesn't consider cell phones secure because you can pick up their signal and listen in. So landline or don't call. A visit to the clubhouse it best.

Oops sorry, forgot to mention in my OC theories DM is being set up, hence sloppy phone situation. Besides, if you are setting up test drives, you need a phone with a call back number. You cant just show up on doorsteps.

 

[swanna]

Swanna I hope I can shed light on your question. Again to assume they missed the barn or where not thorough is presumptuous IMHO. It could be they saw the drums and whatever else they collected this past week but because items were not obvious evidence such as, a drill press with blood on it or blood soaked boards, a puddle of blood on the floor they believed it was irrelevant to the case at that point in their investigation. The items taken this past week didn't fall into the sequence of the investigation three months ago, these things were irrelevant until other evidence was tested. One example I suggested; there was still a body of sorts remaining of TB. Now results have come back conclusive an accelerant was used in the incinerator and not propane as one would expect. Now LE have gone back to do actual testing of what is in those drums suspecting the contents of them could be what was used in the incinerator. Again, just an example.

It all makes sense to me. Why bother unnecessarily testing things if it is not related to the crime. It's like putting the cart before the horse so to speak. As you can very well see the manpower and high tech vehicles which were on the scene this week, is not something to be taken lightly. It's all about strategy, just like an interrogator would use. They cannot jump into an interrogation blindly and say whatever they want to say or ask as it could jeopardize the case.

What I am hearing in the MSM and not from LE is; LE are back on Dellen's property now searching the barn therefore people are assuming it was overlooked because the main focus was on the area, back by and in the bush where the incinerator and more than likely TB's body was found. I do not believe LE has come forward to state, "we missed searching for evidence in the barn. How could they have missed the barn?! I stands out like a sore thumb, very sore at that lol. Out of what, 150 officers on the scene four months ago and not one of them thought to check the barn?! One condition could be also, is possibly they didn't have a warrant to check the barn, found all they needed to find back in the bush and that was there main focus at that time. Maybe the warrant only allowed them to look through the barn but did not allow them to retrieve items from it.

It really never came to light about LB's disappearance and her connection with DM until a day or so after DM's arrest. I would like to give more credit to LE and know they are doing the best investigation they can as things fall into place and unravel. JMHO and HTH.

<modnsip> I only asked a question and was not referring to LE not doing there job in my post. I find the written word can be taken out of context soeasily, so I apoligze if you are reading something that I did not write. I was referring to the May 28th search by Toronto police and not the search they did when TB was found. <modsnip>

I enjoy a good sleuth just like everyone else but I really enjoy it the most when it gets to the trial stage and I can learn all the evidence they have that we never hear about until then. :seeya::twocents::moo:

 

[Sillybilly]

<modsnip>I only asked a question and was not referring to LE not doing there job in my post. I find the written word can be taken out of context so easily, so I apoligze if you are reading something that I did not write. I was referring to the May 28th search by Toronto police and not the search they did when TB was found. <modsnip>

I enjoy a good sleuth just like everyone else but I really enjoy it the most when it gets to the trial stage and I can learn all the evidence they have that we never hear about until then. :seeya::twocents::moo:

Um .. I truly do think swedie was just addressing your question with their take on it, and don't think swedie was insinuating YOU were being presumptuous ... just that those who considered LE had been incompetent were presumptuous.

JMO

 

[swanna]

Um .. I truly do think swedie was just addressing your question with their take on it, and don't think swedie was insinuating YOU were being presumptuous ... just that those who considered LE had been incompetent were presumptuous.

JMO

Thanks SB and I was just addressing the post as it was specifically addressed to me and as I wrote in my post the written word can be taken out of context by the reader(s) very easily.:moo:

 

[SnooperDuper]

I, for one, lean toward an OC connection, however I don't know enough about OC to specify which group would be involved. My feeling is that it wasnt limited to a local operation if drug-related. Local if car-related. Jmo!

HA serves waterloo region. The local president was in the news 4 1/2 years ago and should be getting out just about now. (cocaine, guns, no tasers: google Kitchener Cambridge HA)

So I get it, while the president is indisposed, they won't take anybody out. They'll just cleverly engineer a way to frame people. DM was an entrepreneur (so that's what DP meant!) stealing market share from the HA, and they decided to throw him in jail for 25 years (instead of throwing him through a third floor window, much more practical, and pretty well the kind of thing they'd do.)

 

[swedie]

<modsnip>.I only asked a question and was not referring to LE not doing there job in my post. I find the written word can be taken out of context so easily, so I apoligze if you are reading something that I did not write. I was referring to the May 28th search by Toronto police and not the search they did when TB was found. <modsnip>

I enjoy a good sleuth just like everyone else but I really enjoy it the most when it gets to the trial stage and I can learn all the evidence they have that we never hear about until then. :seeya::twocents::moo:

Wow, sorry you took it as a lecture as that was not my intention. I was just trying to answer your question and "shed some light" on the possible reasoning for, not you, but a few other posters who were bashing LE stating implying they are incompetent because they have been to the farmland for the multiple searches. Just trying to justify that's all.

First search May 13th, TB second search May 28, LB, third search September 9th, LB. Swanna in case you didn't know, there is a Timeline thread which may help. HTH.

Upon shedding some light, my mind was on a roll and I was just going with what came to my mind. I agree, I like sleuthing also and there is a lot of drama. IMO I think you will find it pretty much on any of these forums. The site was intended for sleuthing/trying to figure out crimes, and discuss it as mature adults. Actually I have to :floorlaugh: because it's like deja vu all over again. I follow TS's case on here also and it was full of a lot of drama as well. I just keep saying to myself "ONLY IN CANDA". Yep I am Canadian. One needs to take what they find important, useful and or logical and try to ignore the drama. It does get a bit much though when people start criticizing the poster and does it in a surreptitious way. One good rule to follow here on WS is; criticize the post, not the poster . And again, I was not criticizing you in anyway sorry if you felt that way; just trying to answer your question and fill in the blanks with what I know and was theorizing along the way. My post was not solely intended with information just for you so I HTH clarify any misunderstanding. :moo: :seeya:

Well fellow sleuthers..:escape: got a train to catch early in the morn. Off to enjoy another week of vacation. :great:. Stay well and happy sleuthing.

 

[bessie]

I understand what both of you are saying and it puzzles me as well. I know they were initially only looking for TB but after he was arrested and before MS was arrested were Toronto LE and other LE not back at the farm searching and digging in hopes of finding something in regards to LB.

I just find it odd as the current trial I am watching where they found the body across the road and not on the family property. AS she was killed in another state and dumped here. They still thoroughly searched all the outbuildings, property and home taking samples.

Just my :twocents: for what it is worth and I realize they are supposedly back now due more information or a tip but it still puzzles me as well. :moo:

I understand what you're asking because I wondered about that, myself. So I took some time to review and put it in perspective.

The initial search was conducted by Hamilton PS and Waterloo RS in direct relation to TB's murder, and included a large scale search of both the farm and the barn. TPS didn't participate.

On May 28, TPS conducted a "limited" search of a defined area of the property. Remember the ground penetrating radar and the three big holes in the ground? That search, apparently, was based on a specific piece of information relative to LB and/or WM. Unfortunately for us, we're not privy to that information. Afterward, we were told that the search yielded no results. With no other information in hand at the time, there was no cause to tear up the barn.

This is not a large-scale search similar to that conducted by Hamilton police during the Bosma investigation. A group of about 15 officers are scanning a limited area adjacent to the barn.
snipped
Unlike the previous large scale search that took place on the farm weeks ago, that included a helicopter, a 40-man search crew and forensics, this one was more calculated and focused on one small section of the property.

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/3240330-toronto-police-searching-specific-patch-of-millard-farm/

&#8220;They&#8217;re executing search warrants in relation to our part of the investigation in regards to the missing woman and father,&#8221; said Constable Tony Vella.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...d-accused-in-tim-bosma-death/article12190515/

On Tuesday, Toronto police confirmed they executed the warrant in connection to their investigations &#8212; the death and missing person&#8217;s cases &#8212; and not in relation Bosma&#8217;s murder.

http://kitchener.ctvnews.ca/police-b...#ixzz2UbvKuZwY

Since then, new information was obtained which led to last week's search of the barn.

Police declined to provide any more details, other than to say that new information led to the latest search.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/kitch...tied-to-laura-babcock-disappearance-1.1699302

Police spokesperson Constable Victor Kwong said it involves the case in &#8220;its entirety&#8221; and could be related to the death of Wayne Millard, the disappearance of Laura Babcock or further information about Millard himself.

http://globalnews.ca/news/828217/tim-bosma-toronto-police-once-again-searching-dellen-millards-farm/

I don't know the circumstances of the other case you're following, but it might differ from this one in ways which aren't obvious.

 

[swanna]

I understand what you're asking because I wondered about that, myself. So I took some time to review and put it in perspective.

The initial search was conducted by Hamilton PS and Waterloo RS in direct relation to TB's murder, and included a large scale search of both the farm and the barn. TPS didn't participate.

On May 28, TPS conducted a "limited" search of a defined area of the property. Remember the ground penetrating radar and the three big holes in the ground? That search, apparently, was based on a specific piece of information relative to LB and/or WM. Unfortunately for us, we're not privy to that information. Afterward, we were told that the search yielded no results. With no other information in hand at the time, there was no cause to tear up the barn.
http://www.thespec.com/news-story/3240330-toronto-police-searching-specific-patch-of-millard-farm/

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...d-accused-in-tim-bosma-death/article12190515/
http://kitchener.ctvnews.ca/police-b...#ixzz2UbvKuZwY

Since then, new information was obtained which led to last week's search of the barn.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/kitch...tied-to-laura-babcock-disappearance-1.1699302
http://globalnews.ca/news/828217/tim-bosma-toronto-police-once-again-searching-dellen-millards-farm/

I don't know the circumstances of the other case you're following, but it might differ from this one in ways which aren't obvious.

:tyou:

 

[Snoofo]

I understand what you're asking because I wondered about that, myself. So I took some time to review and put it in perspective.

The initial search was conducted by Hamilton PS and Waterloo RS in direct relation to TB's murder, and included a large scale search of both the farm and the barn. TPS didn't participate.

On May 28, TPS conducted a "limited" search of a defined area of the property. Remember the ground penetrating radar and the three big holes in the ground? That search, apparently, was based on a specific piece of information relative to LB and/or WM. Unfortunately for us, we're not privy to that information. Afterward, we were told that the search yielded no results. With no other information in hand at the time, there was no cause to tear up the barn.
http://www.thespec.com/news-story/3240330-toronto-police-searching-specific-patch-of-millard-farm/

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...d-accused-in-tim-bosma-death/article12190515/
http://kitchener.ctvnews.ca/police-b...#ixzz2UbvKuZwY

Since then, new information was obtained which led to last week's search of the barn.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/kitch...tied-to-laura-babcock-disappearance-1.1699302
http://globalnews.ca/news/828217/tim-bosma-toronto-police-once-again-searching-dellen-millards-farm/

I don't know the circumstances of the other case you're following, but it might differ from this one in ways which aren't obvious.

IMO it is possible HPS tipped off TPS - I believe they spent a little more time in the barn during TB search. Perhaps they found something that could not be tied to TB case but felt deserved further attention as it may relate to Toronto investigations.

Sent using Tapatalk 2

 

[bessie]

IMO it is possible HPS tipped off TPS - I believe they spent a little more time in the barn during TB search. Perhaps they found something that could not be tied to TB case but felt deserved further attention as it may relate to Toronto investigations.

Sent using Tapatalk 2

Could be. Something sparked TPS to re-open the investigation of WM's death, and to add LB to the list of posssible victims. It all came about rather suddenly on May 17. Then Hamilton extended the search into Monday, May 20, and we heard about the "second set of remains". I've never believed that came out of thin air. There must have been something.

 

[Juballee]

Could be. Something sparked TPS to re-open the investigation of WM's death, and to add LB to the list of posssible victims. It all came about rather suddenly on May 17. Then Hamilton extended the search into Monday, May 20, and we heard about the "second set of remains". I've never believed that came out of thin air. There must have been something.

I believe May 17 was when SL went to the media with the story that he gave LE the info on DM last year, from what I can tell, which would be why they suddenly took more interest in LB and WM's deaths on that date. I found it odd that he waited a week, but that is just my opinion. That is not a criticism of him, I just find it odd, like many aspects of this case that others seem so sure of.

I still find it odd that HPS would not have informed TPS that if they were looking for another body on the property, that they might want to look under the hay or in some of the barrels. If Hamilton still had authority to search the farm until the 20th, I find it odd that they either didn't see 54 barrels and have the same suspicions many here had, (that they would be a great place to hide a body or evidence), or wonder what might be hidden beneath the hay. At least one of the 100+ LE involved must have had the same thoughts, in my opinion.

I understand some saying that their warrants might not have covered barrels or the barn specifically, but I imagine that in other cases, when something suspicious is found during an investigation outside of what is currently written on a warrant, that they would perhaps have an officer guard it until they could return with another warrant. I am not suggesting, as I have read recently, that this may be a criticism of LE, but wondering at their reasoning for not looking into large barrels or under copious amounts of hay when conducting a homicide investigation. I imagine that they must have had a reason, I just can't imagine what that would be.

 

[Woodland]

I believe May 17 was when SL went to the media with the story that he gave LE the info on DM last year, from what I can tell, which would be why they suddenly took more interest in LB and WM's deaths on that date. I found it odd that he waited a week, but that is just my opinion. That is not a criticism of him, I just find it odd, like many aspects of this case that others seem so sure of.

I still find it odd that HPS would not have informed TPS that if they were looking for another body on the property, that they might want to look under the hay or in some of the barrels. If Hamilton still had authority to search the farm until the 20th, I find it odd that they either didn't see 54 barrels and have the same suspicions many here had, (that they would be a great place to hide a body or evidence), or wonder what might be hidden beneath the hay. At least one of the 100+ LE involved must have had the same thoughts, in my opinion.

I understand some saying that their warrants might not have covered barrels or the barn specifically, but I imagine that in other cases, when something suspicious is found during an investigation outside of what is currently written on a warrant, that they would perhaps have an officer guard it until they could return with another warrant. I am not suggesting, as I have read recently, that this may be a criticism of LE, but wondering at their reasoning for not looking into large barrels or under copious amounts of hay when conducting a homicide investigation. I imagine that they must have had a reason, I just can't imagine what that would be.

BBM

Wondering why you find that particular date odd Juballee - if you don't mind answering - it's not really spelled out.

SL and LB's family were both stymied by TPS when they reported LB missing back in July 2012 - had he just had enough of the stalling by that time? Or could it be something else?

Imo, some of the criticism of TPS that comes up here from time to time is, there will always be the possibility that TB would still be alive today if TPS did not look away from LB's disappearance with - she was an escort, she was in the sex trade (don't know how TPS knows that but they seem to feel they do) she left of her own accord, she'll be back, it doesn't matter who owns the last phone number on her phone bill etc etc.

 

[Juballee]

BBM

Wondering why you find that particular date odd Juballee - if you don't mind answering - it's not really spelled out.

SL and LB's family were both stymied by TPS when they reported LB missing back in July 2012 - had he just had enough of the stalling by that time? Or could it be something else?

Imo, some of the criticism of TPS that comes up here from time to time is, there will always be the possibility that TB would still be alive today if TPS did not look away from LB's disappearance with - she was an escort, she was in the sex trade (don't know how TPS knows that but they seem to feel they do) she left of her own accord, she'll be back, it doesn't matter who owns the last phone number on her phone bill etc etc.

I find that date odd because it was a week after DM was arrested, and I think personally, if that was me and I had seen the news that someone I thought had kidnapped and murdered my GF was arrested in connection to another kidnapping or murder, I would not have waited a week, I would have been on the phone that day. But that again, is not a criticism, just my own personal opinion. I find a lot of the timing in this case to be very odd.

 

[cansleuther]

I find that date odd because it was a week after DM was arrested, and I think personally, if that was me and I had seen the news that someone I thought had kidnapped and murdered my GF was arrested in connection to another kidnapping or murder, I would not have waited a week, I would have been on the phone that day.

SL may not have contacted the news at all - they may have contacted him. It was discovered fairly early on that a couple of DM's friends were members of the "Help Us Find Laura" FB page. Reporters looking for a story may have contacted the moderator of the FB group (SL) and asked him if LB knew DM.

 

[Woodland]

Have always thought SL and LB's family were talking with TPS the week following DM's arrest. Seems they had to re-produce the phone records, maybe tell the story again - could have taken time and or exasperated SL after a week. I would not have been very happy with 'we can't find them', 'we don't know where they are' etc. He/they wanted action - and they got it! Glad it worked for them.

 

[redheart]

New post by Ann Brocklehurst. http://www.annrbrocklehurst.com/201...ade-ebay-purchases-from-u-s-holster-firm.html

His most recent feedback was for a "Barsony Brown Leather Concealment Shoulder Holster Walther PP PPK PPKS 380 22 32".

Makes me rethink how TB was subdued.

[ame="http://www.ebay.com/itm/160829339948?ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3F_from%3DR40%26_sacat%3D0%26_nkw%3D160829339948%26_rdc%3D1"]Barsony Brown Leather Concealment Shoulder Holster Walther PP PPK PPKS 380 22 32 | eBay[/ame]

This purchase was from October of 2012.

 

[ArianeEmory]

Very interesting catch.