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It's a different case, but a very informative link to search warrants. This link pertains to Toronto's troubled Mayor and the Judge has allowed the publication of the warrants and associated affidavits. It's clear to see the detail and limits contained in each warrant. Not a small task for LE. After seeing this, it's much easier to imagine the scope of the warrants obtained on this case.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/180513187/Court-documents-on-Mayor-Ford-s-friend-Alessandro-Lisi
 
More clean up going on at the farm...I just drove past and noticed a Clean Harbors truck backed up to the barn. Clean Harbours is the company we deal with at work for disposing of our used oil. (They are a waste and hazardous materials management company.)

www.cleanharbors.com
 
More clean up going on at the farm...I just drove past and noticed a Clean Harbors truck backed up to the barn. Clean Harbours is the company we deal with at work for disposing of our used oil. (They are a waste and hazardous materials management company.)

www.cleanharbors.com

Glad to hear toxic chemicals are being disposed of properly and thank you for sharing Hoping. Here's hoping it's not the taxpayers footing this bill. I doubt it but you never know. JMO.
 
Does anyone know why these latest court dates have been set close together? October 22, then the 31st, then November 12. What are these appearances for, exactly, and why so close together when the previous ones have been much further apart?
 
Does anyone know why these latest court dates have been set close together? October 22, then the 31st, then November 12. What are these appearances for, exactly, and why so close together when the previous ones have been much further apart?

Pretrial dealings. Because we are not privy to what is taking place or being discussed at these appearances, I can only speculate the possibility of the Crown handing over evidence/disclosure to the defense and keeping them in the loop as to how the Crown's investigation is proceeding, how close they are to setting an actual pretrial date. JMO.

Pre-Trial Conferences
Pre-trials represent an important step in the litigation process. They encourage settlement and may assist in identifying or narrowing the actual issues for trial. Through the pre-trial process, trial management orders and directions may be obtained so that the trial will proceed more efficiently. To achieve these objectives, all pre-trials must be meaningful events. Otherwise, they will be an unnecessary expense for litigants and a waste of limited judicial resources.


http://www.attorneygeneral.jus.gov.on.ca/english/about/pubs/cjrp/130_management.asp

How to Prepare and Conduct a Crown Pre-Trial

http://www.lsuc.on.ca/For-Lawyers/M...How-to-Prepare-and-Conduct-a-Crown-Pre-Trial/
 
Thanks for the links, Swedie. So I guess we can expect lots of court dates up until the actual pre-trial?
 
IMO jail must be rough on DM. Always looking tired and bags under his eyes. I guess that could happen to someone use to living an easy, carefree lifestyle to all of a sudden find himself contained to a small dank area such as a jail cell.

In his early court appearances he appeared more confidant and self-assured than he does recently .... back then he was probably still thinking he was "too smart to be caught" ..... now I bet his lawyer is showing him some of the evidence against him and he realizes he is in deep trouble.

DM is fairly intelligent , and this whole crime shows intelligent planning , the purpose being not to get caught.

When finally caught , guilt and remorse are not the issue .... it is the vulnerability to shame that tops the list ..... the shame of facing the fact that he was not quite as smart as he thought he was. And he knows everybody else can see it too.

It is like his whole personality ran into a brick wall that he never even knew existed. He had probably done everything "his way" for years and expected it to continue.
 
In his early court appearances he appeared more confidant and self-assured than he does recently .... back then he was probably still thinking he was "too smart to be caught" ..... now I bet his lawyer is showing him some of the evidence against him and he realizes he is in deep trouble.

DM is fairly intelligent , and this whole crime shows intelligent planning , the purpose being not to get caught.

When finally caught , guilt and remorse are not the issue .... it is the vulnerability to shame that tops the list ..... the shame of facing the fact that he was not quite as smart as he thought he was. And he knows everybody else can see it too.

It is like his whole personality ran into a brick wall that he never even knew existed. He had probably done everything "his way" for years and expected it to continue.

Well said Arnie, I agree 100%. Reality is finally starting to bite DM in the a$$, and he's having a hard time dealing with it. At this point, it looks like he's in it for the long haul, so he better get used to it. :jail:
 
In his early court appearances he appeared more confidant and self-assured than he does recently .... back then he was probably still thinking he was "too smart to be caught" ..... now I bet his lawyer is showing him some of the evidence against him and he realizes he is in deep trouble.

DM is fairly intelligent , and this whole crime shows intelligent planning , the purpose being not to get caught.

When finally caught , guilt and remorse are not the issue .... it is the vulnerability to shame that tops the list ..... the shame of facing the fact that he was not quite as smart as he thought he was. And he knows everybody else can see it too.

It is like his whole personality ran into a brick wall that he never even knew existed. He had probably done everything "his way" for years and expected it to continue.


Or it could just be that it's hard to sleep in jail. Also, this wasn't an actual court appearance where he would have been able to stand tall and appear confident. I believe that when an appearance is by video, the camera is stationary and tall defendants may have to stoop or hunch over to be seen properly, which could affect how confident they might seem, I suppose.

I have to disagree that this whole crime shows intelligent planning. I think it is actually the complete opposite, because I think that if someone really wanted to kill a random stranger and had all the means and tools and properties available to him that DM has, he would not have: picked a victim that would have been missed immediately, have made an appointment to kill that person using traceable means such as a cell phone, would not have gone to the door and allowed himself to be seen, would not have gone undisguised by even a hood, would have had the victims meet them someplace else, would have had a licensed second driver on hand to transport the second vehicle, would not have killed the victim in the vehicle if they planned on using it further, would have used the incinerator in a place where it could not possibly have been seen by others, and would have also stored it in a far less noticeable place, would have burned the remains to completion, and then would have gone up in a plane the next day and dumped the ashes from the air like you would with a loved one so that there was never a trace, and would have taken the truck to his own personal chop shop if that was really what was going on at the hanger (which I personally still doubt). Even someone with a less than average mind would have been able to plan better to cover this crime with all those means available to them, so I disagree with the idea that this was a crime showing intelligent planning, or any real planning at all. This does not seem even premeditated to me, more like a cover up after the fact.

I think many people will read whatever they want into the smallest details if nothing else is available to them. I really don't see how a sentence about how tired someone might look to one person can be an indicator of the inner feelings another might have, that can then be used to determine their guilt or innocence when read by a third person, in my opinion. Perhaps someone who knew the accused prior would be able to tell us if his whole personality has run into a brick wall since his arrest, but without that actual knowledge of his actual personality,mother and now, we can only make guesses or uneducated assumptions, since all we really seem to know of his personality comes from a few people who might have known him peripherally, as filtered by the media. But I personally think that spending that amount of time in jail, especially as a first time, might take a toll on anyone, I don't really think it is remarkable, let alone an indicator of anything.
 
Pretty Perceptive Post, AM. For example, newborn babes look......well, innocent because they are. Criminals look well, like criminals because they are.

There are exceptions to every rule but generally, people can get a gut feel for a person by the way they appear/present/act(including posture, demeanor, body language, etc.) On the lack of rest/sleeping in jail subject, a prophet, Isaiah, even documented/recorded it... 48:22


However the courts require more than a gut feeling so even excluding the gut feelings, if one reviews the evidence to date......one has to wonder how people could possibly think DM is innocent or uninvolved or not culpable or not responsible.
 
I have to disagree that this whole crime shows intelligent planning.

Right on Juballee - like Arnie M I think you on to something regarding perception of the perp and this crime.

Cheers!
 
Arnie described DM as "fairly intelligent". He also theorizes that DM may be realizing he's not AS smart as he thought. (I personally feel a sense of being untouchable played into it more heavily than intellect.)

But I don't think anyone has alleged that DM is a genius or criminal mastermind, and I don't think that just because we can Monday-morning-quarterback better ideas about how he could have done the murder, it therefore means he is innocent. Criminals, even "fairly intelligent" ones, do dumb things all the time, especially if they got away with it before. And that's exactly how many of them get caught.
 
Or it could just be that it's hard to sleep in jail. Also, this wasn't an actual court appearance where he would have been able to stand tall and appear confident. I believe that when an appearance is by video, the camera is stationary and tall defendants may have to stoop or hunch over to be seen properly, which could affect how confident they might seem, I suppose.

I have to disagree that this whole crime shows intelligent planning. I think it is actually the complete opposite, because I think that if someone really wanted to kill a random stranger and had all the means and tools and properties available to him that DM has, he would not have: picked a victim that would have been missed immediately, have made an appointment to kill that person using traceable means such as a cell phone, would not have gone to the door and allowed himself to be seen, would not have gone undisguised by even a hood, would have had the victims meet them someplace else, would have had a licensed second driver on hand to transport the second vehicle, would not have killed the victim in the vehicle if they planned on using it further, would have used the incinerator in a place where it could not possibly have been seen by others, and would have also stored it in a far less noticeable place, would have burned the remains to completion, and then would have gone up in a plane the next day and dumped the ashes from the air like you would with a loved one so that there was never a trace, and would have taken the truck to his own personal chop shop if that was really what was going on at the hanger (which I personally still doubt). Even someone with a less than average mind would have been able to plan better to cover this crime with all those means available to them, so I disagree with the idea that this was a crime showing intelligent planning, or any real planning at all. This does not seem even premeditated to me, more like a cover up after the fact.

I think many people will read whatever they want into the smallest details if nothing else is available to them. I really don't see how a sentence about how tired someone might look to one person can be an indicator of the inner feelings another might have, that can then be used to determine their guilt or innocence when read by a third person, in my opinion. Perhaps someone who knew the accused prior would be able to tell us if his whole personality has run into a brick wall since his arrest, but without that actual knowledge of his actual personality,mother and now, we can only make guesses or uneducated assumptions, since all we really seem to know of his personality comes from a few people who might have known him peripherally, as filtered by the media. But I personally think that spending that amount of time in jail, especially as a first time, might take a toll on anyone, I don't really think it is remarkable, let alone an indicator of anything.

One of the reasons I enjoy this forum is because I like to see all opinions. No matter which side they come from, Some I agree with, some I disagree with and some make me wonder. I found your post very interesting. I completely see where you are coming from but ironically a lot of your mentions that cause you to defend him are also the reason I am leaning towards DM's guilt. I don't argue DM's intelligence and have never felt that this is not something he "set out to do". I believe his intent at the beginning of this and the end result are vastly different. So the one line in particular I completely agree with you on is the bolded one..
"This does not seem even premeditated to me, more like a cover up after the fact".

Certainly Jublallee, no offense intended...just my observation and JMO..
 
Or it could just be that it's hard to sleep in jail. Also, this wasn't an actual court appearance where he would have been able to stand tall and appear confident. I believe that when an appearance is by video, the camera is stationary and tall defendants may have to stoop or hunch over to be seen properly, which could affect how confident they might seem, I suppose.

I have to disagree that this whole crime shows intelligent planning. I think it is actually the complete opposite, because I think that if someone really wanted to kill a random stranger and had all the means and tools and properties available to him that DM has, he would not have: picked a victim that would have been missed immediately, have made an appointment to kill that person using traceable means such as a cell phone, would not have gone to the door and allowed himself to be seen, would not have gone undisguised by even a hood, would have had the victims meet them someplace else, would have had a licensed second driver on hand to transport the second vehicle, would not have killed the victim in the vehicle if they planned on using it further, would have used the incinerator in a place where it could not possibly have been seen by others, and would have also stored it in a far less noticeable place, would have burned the remains to completion, and then would have gone up in a plane the next day and dumped the ashes from the air like you would with a loved one so that there was never a trace, and would have taken the truck to his own personal chop shop if that was really what was going on at the hanger (which I personally still doubt). Even someone with a less than average mind would have been able to plan better to cover this crime with all those means available to them, so I disagree with the idea that this was a crime showing intelligent planning, or any real planning at all. This does not seem even premeditated to me, more like a cover up after the fact.

I think many people will read whatever they want into the smallest details if nothing else is available to them. I really don't see how a sentence about how tired someone might look to one person can be an indicator of the inner feelings another might have, that can then be used to determine their guilt or innocence when read by a third person, in my opinion. Perhaps someone who knew the accused prior would be able to tell us if his whole personality has run into a brick wall since his arrest, but without that actual knowledge of his actual personality,mother and now, we can only make guesses or uneducated assumptions, since all we really seem to know of his personality comes from a few people who might have known him peripherally, as filtered by the media. But I personally think that spending that amount of time in jail, especially as a first time, might take a toll on anyone, I don't really think it is remarkable, let alone an indicator of anything.

I totally agree, Juballee. Even an expert would have a hard time analyzing what a person, basically a stranger, was thinking or feeling from one comment from a reporter saying the person looked tired.

And if this crime was intelligent planning, it would seem the purpose was the total opposite, with the purpose being to get caught.

JMO
 
Or it could just be that it's hard to sleep in jail. Also, this wasn't an actual court appearance where he would have been able to stand tall and appear confident. I believe that when an appearance is by video, the camera is stationary and tall defendants may have to stoop or hunch over to be seen properly, which could affect how confident they might seem, I suppose.

I have to disagree that this whole crime shows intelligent planning. I think it is actually the complete opposite, because I think that if someone really wanted to kill a random stranger and had all the means and tools and properties available to him that DM has, he would not have: picked a victim that would have been missed immediately, have made an appointment to kill that person using traceable means such as a cell phone, would not have gone to the door and allowed himself to be seen, would not have gone undisguised by even a hood, would have had the victims meet them someplace else, would have had a licensed second driver on hand to transport the second vehicle, would not have killed the victim in the vehicle if they planned on using it further, would have used the incinerator in a place where it could not possibly have been seen by others, and would have also stored it in a far less noticeable place, would have burned the remains to completion, and then would have gone up in a plane the next day and dumped the ashes from the air like you would with a loved one so that there was never a trace, and would have taken the truck to his own personal chop shop if that was really what was going on at the hanger (which I personally still doubt). Even someone with a less than average mind would have been able to plan better to cover this crime with all those means available to them, so I disagree with the idea that this was a crime showing intelligent planning, or any real planning at all. This does not seem even premeditated to me, more like a cover up after the fact.

I think many people will read whatever they want into the smallest details if nothing else is available to them. I really don't see how a sentence about how tired someone might look to one person can be an indicator of the inner feelings another might have, that can then be used to determine their guilt or innocence when read by a third person, in my opinion. Perhaps someone who knew the accused prior would be able to tell us if his whole personality has run into a brick wall since his arrest, but without that actual knowledge of his actual personality,mother and now, we can only make guesses or uneducated assumptions, since all we really seem to know of his personality comes from a few people who might have known him peripherally, as filtered by the media. But I personally think that spending that amount of time in jail, especially as a first time, might take a toll on anyone, I don't really think it is remarkable, let alone an indicator of anything.

juballee .... good point about DM's jail suroundings contributing to his deflated demeanor ... and come to think of it , the appearance was by video from jail , which is different than a personal appearance in court.

But I think you are mistaken about his cell phone ... he was "smart enough" to use one that was not traceable to him , he was "smart enough" not to contact the seller by email , he was "smart enough" to turn off TB's phone and toss it out on the roadside , he was "smart enough" to park his own vehicle out of site of the Bosma home , he was "smart enough" not to tackle the big guy on the other test drive , all those things have the aroma of pre-planning , at least as far as the truck theft.

And true enough , like you said , the coverup was maybe done "after the fact" .... could be they were simply planning to toss TB out of his truck and take off with it .... but there are way to many other factors conveniently in place .... an incinerator on a remote farm comes to mind.

We have to admit it was pretty good planning .... and the crime would probably remain unsolved if not for somebody finding TB's phone on the side of the road .... this is what DM did not plan for ..... the phone was linked to a call from DM's covert phone , which led to the first truck seller who noticed the ambition tattoo .... which led to DM .... which led to MB's neighbor to call about the trailer which contained the truck .... and only then did LE realize it was more than a truck theft.

I bet DM is angry about that darn cell phone somebody found in the ditch .... it screwed up his "smart" plan.
 
I have to disagree on one point--wouldn't they have been able to trace the numbers without the physical phone?

I think the phone-tossing was intentional (we see it a lot with violent abductions--heck, most of us on WS are not sure which phones can be tracked under which circumstances, even when off, so the criminal wants to get the smartphone of their abductee AWAY from them ASAP). I think DM just did not count on them linking him up with the prior test driver, and that driver being able to provide such a strong identifier. I think he just got overconfident.

I think the rest of the logistics follow from there--the things that DM's defenders believe prove innocence--the fact that he didn't follow the Criminal Mastermind plan for body disposal and whatnot--are all due to the fact that he never believed LE would know his name in the first place. The body would be incinerated, the truck would be chopped, and none of it would ever be traced to him. Certainly not so fast, at least.

Also, wasn't the first test driver placed under some degree of protection? Anonymity, certainly. It would make sense if, as I describe, DM was caught due to that first aborted attempt. The scary thing is, if he'd just switched up phones, we still might not have any idea what happened to Tim Bosma, and his wife would still be wondering and worried sick and looking out of her window every night, hoping he would come home.

And just because it bears repeating: Tim Bosma drove off with Dellen Millard. He ended up dead, burned beyond recognition, on property owned by Dellen Millard. His truck ended up in a trailer owned by Dellen Millard, on the property of a relative of Dellen Millard. Dellen Millard is associated with other deaths and disappearances. In my opinion, these things do not paradoxically equate to innocence on the part of Dellen Millard.
 
I agree with the post above me by ArianeEmory #756 and Arnie post further up...I feel the need to post again ..been a while ....JMO on the totality of this case...I feel swede made an excellent list of evidence which out lines all the evidence that points to DM....and I feel we must look at the LARGE PICTURE here..as listed by swede mths ago....Now I must admit we have not heard DM so called " Story " which his lawyer talks about when he was first arrested ....JMO as I stated before ...." there is a lot of explaining to do >>>by dellen Millard. jmo again I wonder often what the defense will say to explain this?????....DM story...is there one? ...and if there is a " story" will it actually be presented in court....I guess time shall tell...JMO but I do think SHarelen Bosma has a right to know why & how her beloved husband was burned beyond recognition....this is just my honest opinions...robynhood!
 
I bet DM is angry about that darn cell phone somebody found in the ditch.

TB's cell phone was actually found in an industrial complex in Brantford.

On Thursday afternoon, police found Bosma’s cellphone in an industrial complex in west Brantford – the direction he was last believed to have been heading with the two men.

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2013/05/10/tim_bosma_cellphone_recovered_as_police_family_hold_out_hope_for_hamilton_mans_return.html
 
Also, wasn't the first test driver placed under some degree of protection? Anonymity, certainly.

His identity has been kept secret because of the publication ban.

“How you can feel, that you meet somebody and somebody disappears after a couple of days?” the man — who cannot be identified under a court-ordered publication ban — asked in a thick accent.

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2013/06/06/tim_bosma_murder_police_say_suspects_attempted_third_test_drive_of_dodge_ram.html
 
On Thursday afternoon, police found Bosma’s cellphone in an industrial complex in west Brantford – the direction he was last believed to have been heading with the two men.
No other items were recovered, but police said they were able to track the cellphone they believed the suspects used to contact Bosma.
That is how investigators were able to speak with the man in Etobicoke
, who told police he thought it was suspicious that the men who arrived at his business to look at his truck were on foot. He was returned to his business after the test drive.

[/I]
http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/201...y_hold_out_hope_for_hamilton_mans_return.html
 
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