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Archangel7 said:
You'd be wrong too concerning the "support" as in any viable, helpful way.

Most all who serve could sign their name to that letter without changing a word with the exception of replacing Ian's with another......

Any extremely slight indication of stress, or what is seen as "weakness", "need of counseling" or "mental health issues" are a kiss of death in LE.

Cops are agents of the "State" and carry and represent the full weight and authority of the "State." As such there can be no visible blemish of mental health issues especially in a Country so intolerant of firearms and a job so dependent on them.

There are of course the semblance of professional assistance in all agencies yet they are more hypersensitive to public litigation and agency culpability than they are to outright treatment and help.

Of course these "professional assistants" have never experienced any of the events that they are charged with treating so are viewed as outsiders whom will quickly align with the "brass" on anything.

They are avoided like the plague and seen unfavorably.
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Arch7, your post sends chills down my spine. I have the highest regard to LE and my heart breaks for those who ultimately sacrifice their life by either being in harms way or those who's job is to see first hand the carnage of murder and crime.
IMO, LE, especially homicide, see things and piece together gruesome details, of which we could never even imagine. It can't help but rip away at the soul, and when you know that one wrong step and a dangerous perp could go walking?? JMHO, but that's a huge weight on homicide LE shoulders.

Just as the loved ones of the victims of these crimes never get over them, IMO, there never seems to be any thought to our LE officers who have to relive the crime, day in and day out, to get over it as well. RIP Ian MOO
 
To say this is shocking and sad is an understatement - the part about no support. So I guess even after a very very traumatic event (let's say murders of children, LE that discovers bodies or is the investigator), it is up to the officer to hire a professional to deal with trauma? Wow. What about time off after such a traumatic event? Would taking a paid stress leave after that be shameful? I am so sorry to discover this. I believe Archangel when he says any officer could have written it - it was the spouse of a LE friend that shared this article with me in the first place. It's devastating.
 
Snoofo said:
To say this is shocking and sad is an understatement - the part about no support. So I guess even after a very very traumatic event (let's say murders of children, LE that discovers bodies or is the investigator), it is up to the officer to hire a professional to deal with trauma? Wow. What about time off after such a traumatic event? Would taking a paid stress leave after that be shameful? I am so sorry to discover this. I believe Archangel when he says any officer could have written it - it was the spouse of a LE friend that shared this article with me in the first place. It's devastating.
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Snoofo, I'm 100% with you. It is devastating. IMO, society is quick to point fingers at LE. TB's case is no different. Forum upon forum chastising LE, and all sorts of excuses why DM & MS could never have done this crime, yet, IMO, scores of experienced and skilled LE have been dealing with the most horrific of crimes: a young father and husband murdered, his body burned beyond recognition, an incinerator hauled away-the stuff horror movies are made of.

Yes, even though I believe people are innocent until proven guilty, I do have the utmost respect and confidence in all levels of LE involved that they have not made any mistakes in this case and the day will soon come when DM & MS will be found guilty and will be serving life behind bars. Then, as usual, there'll be a slew of appeals, perhaps inquiries, as the accused battle for their freedoms, while LE continuously recounts the crime, the evidence, the trauma all in an effort to keep them locked up. We expect LE to remove the Bernardo's, Pictons & Rafferty's from our streets because none of us want to personally suffer from their sick actions and IMO, it's easier said than done.

To me, the Spec article really hit home just how much society takes LE for granted. The unimaginable grief and trauma LE experienced when they escorted the family to that field that day in May/13 to identify the burned remains of their loved one. Is that really something that can be forgotten with therapy whether you're the family or the LE witnessing it? IMO, post traumatic stress syndrome is an understatement. MOO
 
MsSherlock said:
Snoofo, I'm 100% with you. It is devastating. IMO, society is quick to point fingers at LE. TB's case is no different. Forum upon forum chastising LE, and all sorts of excuses why DM & MS could never have done this crime, yet, IMO, scores of experienced and skilled LE have been dealing with the most horrific of crimes: a young father and husband murdered, his body burned beyond recognition, an incinerator hauled away-the stuff horror movies are made of.

Yes, even though I believe people are innocent until proven guilty, I do have the utmost respect and confidence in all levels of LE involved that they have not made any mistakes in this case and the day will soon come when DM & MS will be found guilty and will be serving life behind bars. Then, as usual, there'll be a slew of appeals, perhaps inquiries, as the accused battle for their freedoms, while LE continuously recounts the crime, the evidence, the trauma all in an effort to keep them locked up. We expect LE to remove the Bernardo's, Pictons & Rafferty's from our streets because none of us want to personally suffer from their sick actions and IMO, it's easier said than done.

To me, the Spec article really hit home just how much society takes LE for granted. The unimaginable grief and trauma LE experienced when they escorted the family to that field that day in May/13 to identify the burned remains of their loved one. Is that really something that can be forgotten with therapy whether you're the family or the LE witnessing it? IMO, post traumatic stress syndrome is an understatement. MOO
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Thank you kindly Snoofo for sharing that article. I do hope everyone does take the time to read it and take it to heart. I for one do greatly admire, appreciate and respect LE. I find it very disheartening when people are critical of our LE as a whole because maybe they have had a bad experience with LE due to their own actions or stupidity, therefore they are bitter to the whole lot. The same can also be said with our judicial system. Just because someone has had a negative experience with the system, maybe that person should take a look at their own actions and question why the negative experience.

MsSherlock, great to see you back and I would love to say thank you for your excellent post. Your post is so eloquently written and I couldn't have said it any better myself. Thank you for the insight many of us overlook or take for granted.
:blowkiss:
And thank you AA and all other LE officers for being that part of society which helps to keep people on the right track as law abiding citizens, for risking your lives each and every day to make society a better and safer place for everyone. My heart goes out to you. Bless all of you.
 
MsSherlock said:
Snoofo, I'm 100% with you. It is devastating. IMO, society is quick to point fingers at LE. TB's case is no different. Forum upon forum chastising LE, and all sorts of excuses why DM & MS could never have done this crime, yet, IMO, scores of experienced and skilled LE have been dealing with the most horrific of crimes: a young father and husband murdered, his body burned beyond recognition, an incinerator hauled away-the stuff horror movies are made of.

Yes, even though I believe people are innocent until proven guilty, I do have the utmost respect and confidence in all levels of LE involved that they have not made any mistakes in this case and the day will soon come when DM & MS will be found guilty and will be serving life behind bars. Then, as usual, there'll be a slew of appeals, perhaps inquiries, as the accused battle for their freedoms, while LE continuously recounts the crime, the evidence, the trauma all in an effort to keep them locked up. We expect LE to remove the Bernardo's, Pictons & Rafferty's from our streets because none of us want to personally suffer from their sick actions and IMO, it's easier said than done.

To me, the Spec article really hit home just how much society takes LE for granted. The unimaginable grief and trauma LE experienced when they escorted the family to that field that day in May/13 to identify the burned remains of their loved one. Is that really something that can be forgotten with therapy whether you're the family or the LE witnessing it? IMO, post traumatic stress syndrome is an understatement. MOO
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While I don't kid myself that LE are probably trained - or is it just warned? - to know what horrific events may come their way on the job, and they still wanted to serve and protect the public and accepted the dangers and the gore and sadness too. I'm just upset there aren't more resources available to help them to cope and keep them on top of their game always. Because that's when they resort to much less favourable coping mechanisms to deal with the stress - we hear about it all the time and it's mentioned in the article. And while I think under Kavanagh's leadership LE have done an excellent job on this case with what was available to them, I still have my doubts that things played out the way the majority believe regarding the accused. But I digress as that has nothing to do with the point I am trying to make!. When I do hear about LE doing questionable things and having hurtful habits in a professional or personal capacity, I suppose I now feel I have a better understanding. I think I always appreciated (as much as I could) the stresses of the job, as I'm sure these brave women and men did when they went to school and train for a LE job, but never did I appreciate the emotional stress was unsupported ever and always. It would be to everyone's benefit to have more focused, healthier police.

To illustrate the point, someone close to me started working at a new, first-of-its kind in Ontario (maybe Canada) palliative care home for children (yes, children, so imagine the sadness). Even after describing the events around the first death there, I was horrified and asked "oh my God how are you going to cope with this on an ongoing basis?". It turns out there is a mandatory weekly group therapy session for the staff there. This is what I'm saying. She is there because she wants to be there, no matter how devastating; the situation is heart wrenching, and the next week or month its going to be another child or children....but there is ongoing support and therapy so that people can see clearly, deal with feeling and avoid traumatic effects. How there is nothing like this for LE, ? Then again I don't know nurses and doctors that get ongoing therapy, I guess, but they usually are told what they are walking into and don't typically risk their own lives to do their job.

No matter how anyone feels about the guilt or innocence of these accused, it doesn't change the condition poor TB was found in, doesn't change what ever was done to him and what LE was subjected to making gruesome discoveries in this case. Kavanagh always appeared composed but you couldn't wipe the stress off the man's face during some of those news conferences. (Oddly, it was Kavanagh that first gave me the doubts I've had all along.)
 
MsSherlock said:
Arch7, your post sends chills down my spine. I have the highest regard to LE and my heart breaks for those who ultimately sacrifice their life by either being in harms way or those who's job is to see first hand the carnage of murder and crime.
IMO, LE, especially homicide, see things and piece together gruesome details, of which we could never even imagine. It can't help but rip away at the soul, and when you know that one wrong step and a dangerous perp could go walking?? JMHO, but that's a huge weight on homicide LE shoulders.

Just as the loved ones of the victims of these crimes never get over them, IMO, there never seems to be any thought to our LE officers who have to relive the crime, day in and day out, to get over it as well. RIP Ian MOO
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My sincere apologies for the chill.
 
In October 2012, the Ombudsman did an investigation on this issue within the OPP and issued a report with 34 recommendations. Although the Ombudsman only has jurisdiction over the Provincial police service, it was acknowledged that the problem exists and should apply to all police services. The recommendations and what the OPP are doing:

http://www.opp.ca/ecms/files/274933998.pdf


It was Kruger, who suffers from PTSD, who spearheaded the investigation in March 2011 when he collected 78 active and retired OPP officers to complain that their mental stress was ignored for years by the OPP.

Not only was it ignored, but officers were led to believe that it would a career-ender if they admitted that traumatic events as a police officer would open them up to PTSD.
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http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2012/10/24/ombudsman_slams_opp_for_lack_of_action_on_ptsd_among_police.html

And Kruger's story:

http://www.accessibilitynews.ca/how-the-ontario-provincial-police-opp-deals-with-officers-ptsd/

It seems the biggest hurdle is the stigma associated with it, especially amongst the higher brass. It needs to be recognized and accepted. The sooner one can receive treatment, the better chance of recovery. Or at the very least, the better chance of coping.
 
Very good post AD.

Two comments about the EAP...and I don't intend to be negative, just extremely doubtful given my experiences and the fact that I am familiar with reality.

1.) Looks good on paper.........

2.) Our EAP was unbelievably well organized and funded. Most individuals were removed from the job for treatment for 6 weeks minimum. The failure rate was well over 75%.

My observation is that some people experience it early in their career but the insidious nature tends to manifest itself during the down times/retirement.
Smoking and drinking add to the problem, exercise greatly helps it.

People, even family don't realize how insidious and deep it can run until your mother has to poke you awake with a broom handle from a safe distance.

The one common thread I see is that officers see the affects on themselves as a "disease" in that they may only share it with a like-diseased colleagues who can sympathize or at least understand. It's why cops only associate with other cops.

To share, talk or tell another "normal/unexposed" person about the (fill in the blank), was seen as a cruel injustice to them and seen as to "infect" them with the "past events" and was unconscionable.

I pray it gets better for all who serve.

RIP Ian Matthews
End of Watch 12/17/2013
 
Question...

If any new charges were to be or are being laid against either DM or MS (ie: chop shop, or with regard to LB or WM or anything else for that matter), is it something that LE would make public? or is it possible that additional charges are kept quiet? Just not sure on the legal process. Do any new charges have to be formally heard in a court?

Just kind of thinking out loud here and wondering if perhaps that may be the reason for the monthly "role call" for both defendants. LE putting ducks in a row and have them report in monthly until they are ready to formally charge???

As I said, I know nothing about the process and asking for input.

I am seriously curious as to why there has been no further mention of chop shop charges or possession of stolen goods type charges when they admitted that they had found stolen material in the hangar many months ago.

Thanks in advance for insight on this.
 
Just thought this was an interesting article about Generation Y. The generation of DM and MS.

What are some of the do's and don'ts in speaking to the generation of young workers?

"You do have to speak to them a little bit like a therapist on television might speak to a patient," Salzman says, laughing. "You can't be harsh. You cannot tell them you're disappointed in them. You can't really ask them to live and breathe the company. Because they're living and breathing themselves and that keeps them very busy."

Faced with new employees who want to roll into work with their iPods and flip flops around noon, but still be CEO by Friday, companies are realizing that the era of the buttoned down exec happy to have a job is as dead as the three-Martini lunch.

"These young people will tell you what time their yoga class is and the day's work will be organized around the fact that they have this commitment. So you actually envy them. How wonderful it is to be young and have your priorities so clear. Flipside of it is how awful it is to be managing the extension, sort of, of the teenage babysitting pool," Salzman tells Safer.

All of which has led, as you'd expect, to a whole new industry -- or epidemic -- of consultants, experts they allege, in how to motivate, train and, yes, sometimes nanny the extraterrestrials who've taken over the workplace.

Today more than half of college seniors move home after graduation. It's a safety net, or safety diaper, that allows many kids to quickly opt out of a job they don't like.

So who's to blame for the narcissistic praise hounds now taking over the office?

Wall Street Journal columnist Jeffrey Zaslow covers trends in the workplace and points the finger at the man who once was America's favorite next door neighbor: Mister Rogers.

"You have got a guy like Mister Rogers, Fred Rogers on TV. He was telling his preschoolers, 'You're special. You're special.' And he meant well. But we, as parents, ran with it. And we said, 'You, Junior, are special, and you're special and you're special and you're special.' And for doing what? We didn't really explain that," Zaslow says.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/the-millennials-are-coming/
 
Swedie I've definitely voiced my concerns here about this generation. I wont say they are all like that but most of them, yes. The ones I deal with professionally are very educated and they absolutely carry the characteristics specified above.

I love the line about strolling in with iPods and flip flops by noon and still wanting to be CEO by Friday.
 
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/news/brief-court-appearances-for-accused-in-tim-bosma-killing-1.2517473

It was one tense minute in a Hamilton courtroom Thursday afternoon when the two men accused of killing Tim Bosma made a brief appearance.

Smich appeared from Toronto East Detention Centre. His hair was cut short. He wore a baggy jumpsuit that appeared too large for his slight frame. He spoke twice — once to confirm that his name is Mark Daniel Smich, and again to say “thank you” when he received his next appearance date.

Millard was more colourful — almost cheerful. He also appeared in an orange jumpsuit, but he's at the Hamilton-Wentworth Detention Centre. When he received his next date, he said “All righty, thank you.”
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BBM

:maddening:
 
Hi all! Hope everyone is doing well during this long cold snowy winter!

Not a big deal..but just an update on the farm...

Skid steer there today clearing snow from the "lane way". I know...we have had lots of snow..just thought it a little odd considering the property is not used at all.

Perhaps a buyer for the excavator?
 
KatieLiz said:
http://www.chch.com/alleged-bosma-killers-facing-new-charges/

FINALLY some movement in this case!!! I am so happy to hear of additional charges, and not surprised at all based on what has already been discussed here on WS!
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Agreed Katie- I would like to say that I hadn't lost hope, but I had. Was actually thinking that answers would never be found around LB and WM, but today's announcement restored my faith! Interesting that CN been charged as an accessory to TB's murder- if anything will get someone talking I would imagine it's a young 20 something female from a good family fearing some time behind bars. JMHO
 
Toronto and Hamilton police are still heading up their respective investigations into the deaths of Bosma, Babcock and Millard's father, but the three cases have now been streamlined under the OPP's Major Case Management (MCM) system. The MCM system is used so that valuable information that links multiple cases can be shared between police forces when “serial predators and offenders are concerned,” said OPP spokesperson Pierre Chamberland.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamil...a-death-faces-2-more-murder-charges-1.2605741
 
matou said:
Toronto and Hamilton police are still heading up their respective investigations into the deaths of Bosma, Babcock and Millard's father, but the three cases have now been streamlined under the OPP's Major Case Management (MCM) system. The MCM system is used so that valuable information that links multiple cases can be shared between police forces when “serial predators and offenders are concerned,” said OPP spokesperson Pierre Chamberland.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamil...a-death-faces-2-more-murder-charges-1.2605741
Click to expand...

Continues to say more than written. It will be interesting to see if this is a "masterlink" to other leads.
 
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