General Discussion Thread #1 -Bail Hearing

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City Press puts the suspected timeline into pictures:

Inside-oscar.gif


http://www.citypress.co.za/
 
I wonder why the presumed first injury is Reeva's hip?
 
Regarding some of Pistorius' prior history:

Shortly after the accident, Pistorius prohibited press photographers from taking pictures of an accident scene on the N4 highway in which a friend of his was involved.

Beeld reported that Pistorius’ friend knocked over a pedestrian who died on the scene.

Pistorius allegedly tried to keep photographers away from the scene.

Asked why they couldn’t take photos, the Blade Runner was quoted as saying: “Because I am Oscar Pistorius.”

In September 2009 Pistorius spent a night in custody at the Boschkop police office after allegedly assaulting a 19-year-old woman at a house party.

Casseby Taylor-Memory charged Pistorius with assault after he chased her from his Silver Lakes house.

A wooden log weighing 1.5kg allegedly landed on her leg after Pistorius shut a door at his house.

A month later the National Prosecuting Authority declined to prosecute Pistorius because they couldn’t prove he had intended to injure her.

After the incident, Pistorius instituted a lawsuit of R6.5 million against Police Minister Nathi Mthethwa for unlawful arrest and put in a R2.2 million claim of malicious intent against Taylor-Memory.

In November last year, Pistorius’ ex-girlfriend, Samantha Taylor, told City Press he was the ultimate player after he left her for model Reeva Steenkamp, who died in this morning’s shooting incident.

“Oscar is certainly not what people think he is. We dated for a year and a half,” Taylor said.

http://www.citypress.co.za/news/pistorius-never-far-from-controversy/
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Sounds like the key witness is herself a lawyer.

‘I saw Reeva die’

A young friend of murder accused Oscar Pistorius, called to his house the night the Paralympian shot his girlfriend Reeva Steenkamp, has told how she opened the door to see him carrying Steenkamp down the stairs, her body drenched in blood.

The young woman, who cannot be named, lives with her parents in the same complex, Silver Woods in Pretoria. She got the call after 3am on Thursday, she told police this week in a sworn statement.

Pistorius asked her to come to his home immediately. He was frantic. Something had gone horribly wrong. There had been a shooting.

She rushed over, opening the door of his home at exactly 3.20am on Valentine’s morning – and saw Pistorius carry Steenkamp down the stairs, her body drenched in blood.

Pistorius placed Steenkamp’s body on the floor, and between them, Pistorius’s young friend said, they tried to stop the profuse bleeding.

But they couldn’t.

The young woman, a lawyer, told police she and Pistorius did everything they could to save Steenkamp’s life.

But 29-year-old Steenkamp’s slender body was limp, the life draining out of her.

When the paramedics arrived a short while later, she said she and Pistorius stepped aside. Steenkamp was pronounced dead a short while later.

http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-courts/i-saw-reeva-die-1.1471707#.USJpc6U3uSo
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Today the South African Times cited sources close to the police investigation as saying that social media messages including ones from Mr Hougaard might form part of the prosecution’s evidence at Mr Pistorius’ bail hearing at the Pretoria Central Magistrates tomorrow.

Across Twitter Mr Hougaard communicated with Miss Steenkamp before her death, and retweeted a picture of them together with friends after she died.

The 24-year-old was keen to distance himself from such reports at the weekend. His agent said: ‘This whole sad ordeal has got nothing to do with him.’


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ice-reveal-taking-steroids.html#ixzz2LH71uRGN
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
 
His father is not impressed with the public. Wow.

Pistorius's father, Henke, has defended his son by attacking the way the incident has been reported.

'There is something fundamentally wrong with our society. We build people up into heroes, who overcome immense challenges, only to take great glee in breaking them down', he told South Africa's Times newspaper.

'I want to say this: We are realists, not fools. This is not going to be easy but Oscar is strong beyond his years.'


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ice-reveal-taking-steroids.html#ixzz2LH9899vn
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
Click to expand...
 
I would imagine it would be very foolish if his attorneys push for the "diminished responsibility due to drug or alcohol abuse" side of things....FYI, a few weeks ago, a SA celebrity named JubJub was sentenced to 25 years for killing school children while under the influence of drink and drugs. Due to our sensitive racial society, if Oscar goes for the same defence and gets anything less, I can assure you there will be total anarchy and riots.

The mood on the ground, SA has totally turned its back on Oscar, he is being slaughtered before trial, no matter what the story is, he is a finished man in this country. I don't think he has one chance of redeeming himself...I think the only way he will remotely be able to face the public baying for his blood is to come clean at a very swift pace.

Lets see what tomorrow brings.
 
Wondergirl said:
I wonder why the presumed first injury is Reeva's hip?
Click to expand...

by examining the wound they can tell how close/far the gun was from the skin. maybe this particular wound exhibited traits of being fired from a closer range than the others ?
 
just how many people did he call? (father, best pal, a female neighbour, more?) -- is this normal? (i do know the ramsey's did this...)

the shot to her hip? if it was truly an accident, he'd have stopped there, right? no more shots should've been fired ?

(who, after "accidentally" shooting someone they "love", would continue to shoot for ANY reason - even to break down the door as suggested below?)

the one theory proposed in the daily mail article linked above suggests

the athlete first shot Miss Steenkamp by accident, whereupon she fled to the bathroom. He then shot at the door lock to try to get in, accidentally killing her
Click to expand...

so it should be easy to see if the pattern of bullet holes in the door matches up or not. if the bullet holes are not concentrated around the doorknob/lock, easily disproved ?
 
I'm puzzled as to how the neighbour could arrive as he was taking her down the stairs, the lawyer friend arrived as he was taking her down the stairs, the security guards arrived as he was taking her down the stairs, the father and other family members arrived as he was taking her down the stairs. Only the best friend arrived later after paramedics and when police was there. Are these very long stairs, they all rushed through at the same second or confused reporting? I can find links for them all I swear!
 
OK his family is making me furious .. and his past is making me furious. Here we have a guy that because he is FAMOUS and some kind of HERO because he can run fast on blades (which frankly I always thought gave him a massive unfair advantage) was given a pass on many incidents which showed that he had a violent streak and should have been taken as a warning sign. PERHAPS if his stupid family wasn't so invested in enabling him he wouldn't have committed this horrible crime and Reeva would still be alive. I hope they wake up to themselves at some stage in the future and admit he is not the great hero they wish the world to think he is, admit that they played a large part in creating a monster, and come down from their high horse, and show some humility.

If they keep going down the road they are on they are only going to alienate themselves from society even more.

Your son has committed a horrible crime, he had shown a propensity for violence before this horrible crime that he failed to address and that you helped him sweep under the rug, a girl has died. He needs to take responsibility for that, and you need to take responsibility for enabling him his entire life.
 
funny you bring up the Rams redheadedgal. i was thinking of them as well.....at least no one was able to get into the crime scene other than oscar and reeva before the police got there. my feeling is he was trying to spin his intruder theory but there are way too many loose ends...her overnight bag, ipad, and no doubt cell phone, CCTV, neighbors calling the police and info about the gunshots...the story has fallen apart and his family is left grasping onto any vague possible story.
 
Details on what is happening tomorrow:

The court will hear arguments from the prosecution and defense on whether it will be treated as a Schedule 5 or 6 offence. Schedule 6 means that the defense will have to prove exceptional circumstances for bail to be granted. While schedule 5 means it only needs to be in the interest of justice for bail to be granted. In both the schedule and bail arguments some of the facts and details will have to be revealed by the prosecution. It will also give an idea of where the defense will be going should it go to trial. The court has set aside 2 days for arguments but I imagine by then, we will have a much clearer picture of what happened. Court starts at 9am CAT so I'm sure all eyes will be glued to twitter for info on what's happening inside the courtroom. The judge has ruled no filming and photos while court is in session so media won't be able to give updates while inside the courtroom I would imagine.

(Some info taken from another comment but also available on a m&g article of which I now can't find the link :blushing: )

For where the defence stands on using the intruder theory , there is this article..I don't think it's an avenue that they can move forward with tbh.
http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-courts/few-options-for-oscar-s-defence-team-1.1472544#.USKdwXwaySM

Night all, bed time for me! :)
 
Estelle said:
So what was the triggering point? Jealousy?

Having read this article, my theory is that Steenkamp could have got up to go to the loo after 3am, and while she was in there, Oscar decided to check the messages on her mobile phone while she was away to see if any other guys had sent her any Happy Valentine's Day text messages. And there it was - a text message from the handsome playboy rugby player whom she had known for years! Oscar then became jealous so went and got his gun shouting that he was going to shoot her. Perhaps earlier that night she had lied to Oscar about her still being in touch with the rugby player and this could have been the reason for their argument two hours before. So when he got proof, Oscar was outraged. Being terrified of him, she locked herself in the bathroom thinking she would be safe there refusing to come out so he shot her through the door. I read that this rugby player did not turn up for his match two days after the shooting making me feel that he could think his actions could have been the trigger.

What do you think?
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Good points----I have a hard time believing OP didnt know Reeva was in the bathroom

I mean they probably were talking to each other while he stood at the bathroom door

I'm sure he yelled out "who's in the bathroom"?

"Oscar, it's me Reeva"

Then he shoots her ...4 times, then uses a cricket bat to beat her head when he sees it's Reeva?

This looks like a crime of passion...Damn sad, sad story
 
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