General Discussion Thread #2

[jjenny]

Since she had no other injuries she obviously wasn't assaulted. So your theory is wrong.

And in any case, the idea that someone would murder to cover up a minor assault is somewhat improbable.

If this was her first overnighter, it is plausible that he woke up to noises in the bathroom and basically forgot that she was there. If he was paranoid about home invasions that would be a possibility.

He didn't wak up to noises in the bathroom. Per his affidavit, he was on the balcony getting a fan when he heard the noises from the bathroom. And he very well remmebered she was in his apartment, since in his affidavit he claims his goal was to protect himself and her. Yet when he went to get his gun from under the bed, he never even checked whether she was in that bed.

 

[SyraKelly]

He didn't wak up to noises in the bathroom. Per his affidavit, he was on the balcony getting a fan when he heard the noises from the bathroom. And he very well remmebered she was in his apartment, since in his affidavit he claims his goal was to protect himself and her. Yet when he went to get his gun from under the bed, he never even checked whether she was in that bed.

Exactly-this is the part that I just find unbelievable!

 

[jjenny]

Exactly-this is the part that I just find unbelievable!

I don't believe that either. He had to go back to the bed to get the gun per his story. Yet he doesn't look that she is not in bed, he doesn't try to warn her about the intruder, he just gets a gun from the side of the bed she might have been sleeping (although he claims that on that particular night he was supposedly sleeping on that side because of shoulder issues).
That does not add up for me at all.

 

[shane13]

I don't believe that either. He had to go back to the bed to get the gun per his story. Yet he doesn't look that she is not in bed, he doesn't try to warn her about the intruder, he just gets a gun from the side of the bed she might have been sleeping (although he claims that on that particular night he was supposedly sleeping on that side because of shoulder issues).
That does not add up for me at all.

Well IIRC Botha said he had to walk by her 3X.

Virtually everything he says is absurd.

 

[shane13]

One aspect I wish to discuss.

Let's say hypothetically he killed Reeva deliberately.

IMO it was after his rage caused some type of assault first.

Does it make sense if something ticked him off--say a PM on her ipad from a previous lover or such.

Does it not make more sense (hypothetically) to slap, punch or whack her with the nearby bat first, then to first reach for his gun and blast her?

He only shot her IMOOC, after already injuring her seriously in his rage.

Even that woman in the door assault, I posted a few hours ago, the report that said her injuries were serious. This indicates that he used another object--the door to cause serious injury.

Thus we have a patern of behavior of reaching for the nearest object to cause injury to someone when he gets in a rage.


A consitent pattern of behavior, yes?

 

[seattlechiquita]

He claims he didn't have his prosthesis on, correct? If that was the case, how on earth did he think he would have time to "protect" anyone? I imagine his movement without the aids must be slower than average.

I just don't buy the intruder story.

 

[seattlechiquita]

One aspect I wish to discuss.

Let's say hypothetically he killed Reeva deliberately.

IMO it was after his rage caused some type of assault first.

Does it make sense if something ticked him off--say a PM on her ipad from a previous lover or such.

Does it not make more sense (hypothetically) to slap, punch or whack her with the nearby bat first, then to first reach for his gun and blast her?

He only shot her IMOOC, after already injuring her seriously in his rage.

Even that woman in the door assault, I posted a few hours ago, the report that said her injuries were serious. This indicates that he used another object--the door to cause serious injury.

Thus we have a patern of behavior of reaching for the nearest object to cause injury to someone when he gets in a rage.


A consitent pattern of behavior, yes?

Yes. Excellent post. I shiver just at the thought of it all. OP is a very angry and resentful man.

 

[SyraKelly]

One aspect I wish to discuss.

Let's say hypothetically he killed Reeva deliberately.

IMO it was after his rage caused some type of assault first.

Does it make sense if something ticked him off--say a PM on her ipad from a previous lover or such.

Does it not make more sense (hypothetically) to slap, punch or whack her with the nearby bat first, then to first reach for his gun and blast her?

He only shot her IMOOC, after already injuring her seriously in his rage.

Even that woman in the door assault, I posted a few hours ago, the report that said her injuries were serious. This indicates that he used another object--the door to cause serious injury.

Thus we have a patern of behavior of reaching for the nearest object to cause injury to someone when he gets in a rage.


A consitent pattern of behavior, yes?

Yes,it seems reasonable that he would grab the nearest object,the bat.I do believe SAP is keeping this bit of information for the trial its a central piece to their premed murder-JMOOC

 

[Carol70]

Yes we get this and fine. I have written that I respect that. The difference is that every time someone posts in favor of certain published reports, 1 of 2-3 people come on and try to tell others that they can't or shouldn't say or think that way.

Once again: Bottom line is that until the autopsy report is fully published, everything everyone is saying here is speculation.

In that regard I ask any SAns. Does SA have FOI laws there? In the USA, supposedly (and with limitations) the press (or individuals) can petition govt agencies to release reports.

Does SA have FOI laws?
Update: Maybe I will PM Carol and ask her this.

Thanks Shane, got your pm...I'm not sure to be honest..found this information:
http://ww2.unhabitat.org/cdrom/transparency/html/box21.html

However, I don't believe that anyone will be able to get information on the case as its criminal. I think the best we are going to see with autopsy is at trial, unless its leaked before then which is a possibility.

 

[Carol70]

tangentially related.

National police commissioner Riah Phiyega is the one who took Det.
Botha off the OP case and put in their top Det.. I believe she also reinstated attempted murder charges against Botha.

Here she speaks out on the breaking story of police arresting a taxi driver and dragging him through the streets behind the police van. He was later found dead in his cell.

Snipped

This is just terrible. And not the police brutality, it's only making waves because the entire world is watching at the moment. There are a lot of these vids floating around. It's breaks my heart that the people standing around have so little regard for human life and their fellow man that its ok to stand and cheer, laugh and encourage the situation. Absolutely depressing.

 

[shane13]

Thanks Shane, got your pm...I'm not sure to be honest..found this information:
http://ww2.unhabitat.org/cdrom/transparency/html/box21.html

However, I don't believe that anyone will be able to get information on the case as its criminal. I think the best we are going to see with autopsy is at trial, unless its leaked before then which is a possibility.

Thanks.
Too bad, unless leaked as you say, could be a year or so.

 

[shane13]

This is just terrible. And not the police brutality, it's only making waves because the entire world is watching at the moment. There are a lot of these vids floating around. It's breaks my heart that the people standing around have so little regard for human life and their fellow man that its ok to stand and cheer, laugh and encourage the situation. Absolutely depressing.

Not sure what you are saying.

THe polce aspect is not terrible???

It seems to me there are only 2 possibilities. He was found dead in his cell of head and internal injuries.
The 2 possibilities are that the injuries were sustained during the dragging by the police vehicle. OR later to silence him,they beat him to death in his cell.

So how is it that what the police are not the real horror here. Unless I misunderstand you.

And is it possible that some of these people were not cheering per se, but were trying to rouse other members of the public?

 

[seattlechiquita]

Are trials in SA televised? What is the process like?

 

[shane13]

Not sure what you are saying.

THe polce aspect is not terrible???

It seems to me there are only 2 possibilities. He was found dead in his cell of head and internal injuries.
The 2 possibilities are that the injuries were sustained during the dragging by the police vehicle. OR later to silence him,they beat him to death in his cell.

So how is it that what the police are not the real horror here. Unless I misunderstand you.

And is it possible that some of these people were not cheering per se, but were trying to rouse other members of the public?

Update: From the news24 article I cited: "Dlamini said a post mortem conducted on Wednesday indicated that the man died of head injuries, with internal bleeding."

If you note the position of his head while being dragged and handcuffed to the police van, it looks like he wouldn't have been able to get his head banged that way.

Therefore it apears far more likely he was beaten to death in his cell to silence him.

JMO after observation, thought and logic.

 

[Carol70]

Not sure what you are saying.

THe polce aspect is not terrible???

It seems to me there are only 2 possibilities. He was found dead in his cell of head and internal injuries.
The 2 possibilities are that the injuries were sustained during the dragging by the police vehicle. OR later to silence him,they beat him to death in his cell.

So how is it that what the police are not the real horror here. Unless I misunderstand you.

And is it possible that some of these people were not cheering per se, but were trying to rouse other members of the public?

Lol..No Shane , what the police are doing is disgusting, but it's not surprising. They get away with it because nothing is done about it and don't let the police outrage fool you now considering that this is the second time in a week that the police imagine has been tarnished in the international press. It's about time the SAP are brought to their knees. And both your scenarios are possible.

It's just depressing that people are so immune to suffering, the crowd are whistling, laughing and shouting "shoota"... The man in question is from Mozambique, xenophobia is huge here. Anyhow, not to go off on a tangent

 

[Carol70]

Are trials in SA televised? What is the process like?

Sadly not, the trial will be like the bail application. Only selected media in the room and no footage during proceedings however, it's judge dependant too. The judge may just rule no media at all but that's highly unlikely.

 

[shane13]

Lol..No Shane , what the police are doing is disgusting, but it's not surprising. They get away with it because nothing is done about it and don't let the police outrage fool you now considering that this is the second time in a week that the police imagine has been tarnished in the international press. It's about time the SAP are brought to their knees. And both your scenarios are possible.

It's just depressing that people are so immune to suffering, the crowd are whistling, laughing and shouting "shoota"... The man in question is from Mozambique, xenophobia is huge here. Anyhow, not to go off on a tangent

Thanks. Sorry if I misunderstood.
What does "shoota" mean?

 

[shane13]

"Man. Superman. Gunman.”

Oscar makes Time Magazine cover.
http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-courts/oscar-makes-time-magazine-cover-1.1478831#.US-cLjcs1ac

 

[Carol70]

Thanks. Sorry if I misunderstood.
What does "shoota" mean?

No sorry, I actually did word my post wrong. I just didn't find the brutality shocking or anything, sadly, maybe I'm also a little immune and desensitized.
I also didn't know, asked my work colleagues, it simply township slang for shoot him.

 

[SyraKelly]

"Man. Superman. Gunman.”

Oscar makes Time Magazine cover.
http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-courts/oscar-makes-time-magazine-cover-1.1478831#.US-cLjcs1ac

I think Reeva's beautiful face should have been on the cover,not the face of her murderer!!JMO