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http://metro.co.uk/2013/02/17/oscar...enkamp-on-instinct-claims-his-father-3481185/

I thought I had already sent this..........According to early report, Reeva was shot in hand and head (one bullet) hip/pelvis (one bullet) and elbow). The bloodied blonde hairs found in Reeva's hand (see my previous link) would support the fact that she had her hand to her head when shot.

As I've said I don't know if this means anything or not.
 
liverpoollou said:
I have been trying to find articles pinpointing when Reeva actually died. Not much success yet.....just the Defence claim that she died before Oscar reached bottom of stairs.

Anyway, I did come across this link

http://metro.co.uk/2013/02/17/oscar...enkamp-on-instinct-claims-his-father-3481185/

I am only posting this because I have mentioned before that I had read numerous articles stating Reeva was shot in head, HAND, hip and head and one bullet went through her head and hand. The bloodied blonde hair found in Reeva's hand that was mentioned in my previous link would suggest she had her hand to her head when shot.

Don't know if this means anything or not.
Click to expand...

"Neighbours and security guards at the exclusive Silver Woods Country Estate, to the east of Pretoria, are reported by Beeld to have heard Miss Steenkamp's last, ragged breaths.
Blood spatters ran along the route Pistorius is said to have carried his girlfriend as he sought help, and bloody towels lay on the floor where police found her when they arrived moments later, the paper said."

"Miss Steenkamp, 29, an FHM covergirl, is said to have still been breathing when security guards and neighbours arrived at Pistorius' house in the early hours of St Valentine's Day, but was pronounced dead by paramedics who arrived shortly afterwards."

and

"She had been shot four times, in the head, chest and hand, through the bathroom door. Initial reports suggested Pistorius fired the fatal shots believing she was an intruder, although the claim has since been played down by police."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...-downstairs-and-tried-to-resuscitate-her.html
 
Why did OP's Affidavit say that he was on his stumps firing at the "noise?" I believe he played the Vulnerable Card with the police when they questioned him before his arrest, so it is in their notes / reports.

Then he had to continue that lie with his attorney's and specialists, and since the door had been confiscated the day of the homicide they could not correct his story for him to match the forensic facts that the police / prosecutors knew but they did not. Namely the shots were fired by OP standing tall on his legs. That is one of the fatal flaws of his Affidavit. More to come. IMO

"Forensic teams are still working at the luxury home of the double amputee, until this week one of South Africa's most celebrated heroes.
They are reported to have removed the bullet-marked bathroom door as evidence. According to the paper's source, they apparently believe that Miss Steenkamp was sitting on the lavatory when she was shot."
 
DriveBy said:
Why did OP's Affidavit say that he was on his stumps firing at the "noise?" I believe he played the Vulnerable Card with the police when they questioned him before his arrest, so it is in their notes / reports.

Then he had to continue that lie with his attorney's and specialists, and since the door had been confiscated the day of the homicide they could not correct his story for him to match the forensic facts that the police / prosecutors knew but they did not. Namely the shots were fired by OP standing tall on his legs. That is one of the fatal flaws of his Affidavit. More to come. IMO

"Forensic teams are still working at the luxury home of the double amputee, until this week one of South Africa's most celebrated heroes.
They are reported to have removed the bullet-marked bathroom door as evidence. According to the paper's source, they apparently believe that Miss Steenkamp was sitting on the lavatory when she was shot."
Click to expand...

You could be right. At the time, I thought he had to say he was on his stumps, otherwise he would have had to say he sat on the bed and took so many minutes to put on legs.....making it more likely he knew Reeva was not in bed.

If he has lied in his Affidavit, he must be in such a state mentally wondering how he is to get out of it.

I did in a previous post speculate that Reeve may have seen the fatal shot coming and put up her hand to protect herself. That's pure speculation on mind part.
 
liverpoollou said:
You could be right. At the time, I thought he had to say he was on his stumps, otherwise he would have had to say he sat on the bed and took so many minutes to put on legs.....making it more likely he knew Reeva was not in bed.

If he has lied in his Affidavit, he must be in such a state mentally wondering how he is to get out of it.

I did in a previous post speculate that Reeve may have seen the fatal shot coming and put up her hand to protect herself. That's pure speculation on mind part.
Click to expand...

Here is my theory; with the caveat that it is just for that small piece of time in all of the events that night.

The first shot from the bathroom entryway missed Reeva, that is highly likely to be the bullet found in the toilet. I believe that because he fired from the bathroom entryway - a distance - at a solid door and he had no idea in that instant of time exactly where in the toilet closet Reeva was hiding.

So OP chased Reeva in to the bathroom with his gun, but she had made it to the toilet closet and locked the door before he fired the first shot. He fired at the door and missed her which caused Reeva to 1) Scream, 2) turn away from the door (all gunshot wounds were to the right side of her body), 3) crouch down (bullet entry in the door was downward) for cover with her hands covering her head ("she was not on the toilet, she was in another position" Det. Botha testified), 4) OP moves in to the bathroom close to the door (three shots 1.5 meters from Reeva), 5) and there was conversation of some sort because it provided OP with sound-produced coordinates to target with the sights of his pistol, 6) he fired three (3) shots accurately at the target sound, Reeva.

Not everyone will agree with me, but that is what I believe and it fits the facts much better than OP's story. IMO
 
USA Today has more quotes from Botha that were not included in the article I quoted earlier. The new stuff only is on this excerpt.

Interesting, esp the forensics info:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...former-investigator-raises-questions/1973237/

Investigator in Oscar Pistorius case raises questions

Botha told The Times that the bail hearing "is like a poker game. You cannot show all your cards.

"It was meant to be a bail hearing, not a trial within a trial. There are certain things that happened and what was said in court did not happen."

Botha faces attempted murder changes stemming from a 2011 incident in which he shot at a vehicle.

He said if the bail hearing had been handled properly, he wouldn't have been asked so many questions. "At bail applications you do not have all the information such as forensics," he told The Times. "I did not have all the information."
Click to expand...
 
Oscar thinks his bail conditions are unfair. What is "unfair" is that he is here and Reeva is not.

More from another publication:

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/4...ging-bail-conditions-international-travel.htm

Oscar Pistorius Challenges Bail Conditions on Travel Ban and Drugs Testing
Paralympian athlete’s lawyers return to court to argue that bail conditions on Blade Runner unfair

-snip-

Wants to return to crime scene

They also wanted to overturn the drug and alcohol testing condition.

"There is no desire by the appellant to use any prohibited substance or alcohol but the condition imposed is not warranted or substantiated by facts," the court application maintained.

Pistorius wanted to be able to return to the scene of the crime and speak to neighbours, they said. He is banned from doing both under the bail ruling.

The conditions stipulate that he must not leave Pretoria without the consent of his parole officer and must not enter an airport or any area that would allow him to travel internationally.

Pistorius was forced to hand over his passport and any travel documents. Prosecutors argued that he posed a flight risk because he was thought to have a second home in Italy and offshore accounts.

.
Click to expand...
 
Patticake said:
From today, 59 minutes ago ...

http://www.itv.com/news/update/2013-03-08/pistorius-lawyers-attempt-to-get-bail-conditions-altered/


.
Click to expand...

The Bail Conditions thing is interesting to discuss. At first I was surprised that OP got bail, but I hadn't factored in his "national hero" status. And then it was agreed between the Def / Pro that $250K would be appropriate bail, seemed low to me. And then the Magistrate piled it high at $1M and added a bunch of safeguards, so I felt better. I don't believe an average SA accused of a Schedule 6 crime would have received what OP got, in fact it may be a precedent - the safeguards w/ bail at $1M. I do believe that the Magistrate did recognize the flight risk, and ensured that his decision to let OP remain out on bail was not going to come back as a professional embarrassment to him. Hence the safeguards. Smart Judge!
 
Hmm...so it looks like he is appealing almost all his bail conditions! I wonder what the chances are that they will be amended and if so, which ones?

Maybe this is just standard legal procedure to see if you can get at least some conditions downgraded.
 
Patticake said:
Oscar thinks his bail conditions are unfair. What is "unfair" is that he is here and Reeva is not.

More from another publication:

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/4...ging-bail-conditions-international-travel.htm
Click to expand...

This is exactly why OP should not be out on bail. Even thinking for an instant that it would be okay to return to the scene of the crime and talk to the neighbors and witnesses is insane. It's so vastly inappropriate it really reveals the extent of his controlling and narcissism.
 
DriveBy said:
Here is my theory; with the caveat that it is just for that small piece of time in all of the events that night.

The first shot from the bathroom entryway missed Reeva, that is highly likely to be the bullet found in the toilet. I believe that because he fired from the bathroom entryway - a distance - at a solid door and he had no idea in that instant of time exactly where in the toilet closet Reeva was hiding.

So OP chased Reeva in to the bathroom with his gun, but she had made it to the toilet closet and locked the door before he fired the first shot. He fired at the door and missed her which caused Reeva to 1) Scream, 2) turn away from the door, 3) crouch down (bullet entry in the door was downward) for cover with her hands covering her head ("she was not on the toilet, she was in another position" Det. Botha testified), 4) OP moves in to the bathroom close to the door, 5) and there was conversation of some sort because it provided OP with sound-produced coordinates to target with the sights of his pistol, 6) he fired three (3) shots accurately at the target sound, Reeva.

Not everyone will agree with me, but that is what I believe and it fits the facts much better than OP's story. IMO
Click to expand...

That is possible. Wasn't there speculation at one point that the first shot happened in the bedroom, hitting Reeva's hip, she then, doubled over in pain, ran to the bathroom....and we know the rest? What niggles at me is that if if in fact he knew he was firing at Reeva, would you not think he would make sure she was dead......if by some miracle he had saved her, that would be damning..........You see I was prepared to go along with him bashing down the door and firing point blank at her head when he realised she was still alive. If Oscar is telling lies, I don't see him making it to trial he'll have a breakdown at the least before then. Whether is was accidental or premeditated......it shows he has an unstable mind at the best of times.

Just my thoughts.
 
liverpoollou said:
That is possible. Wasn't there speculation at one point that the first shot happened in the bedroom, hitting Reeva's hip, she then, doubled over in pain, ran to the bathroom....and we know the rest? What niggles at me is that if if in fact he knew he was firing at Reeva, would you not think he would make sure she was dead......if by some miracle he had saved her, that would be damning..........You see I was prepared to go along with him bashing down the door and firing point blank at her head when he realised she was still alive. If Oscar is telling lies, I don't see him making it to trial he'll have a breakdown at the least before then. Whether is was accidental or premeditated......it shows he has an unstable mind at the best of times.

Just my thoughts.
Click to expand...

I use BIB as Bit In Bold, I know you do too, but so others can follow - we are both new here, I posted the first time yesterday after you.

BIB1 The master bedroom is described in the press over there in two parts: the bedroom and the bathroom. The hallway between the two is still considered the bedroom. The the one casing found in the bedroom would be from the first shot fired from the bathroom door entry, it seems.

BIB2 I see him in a rage for the 15-45 seconds that it took for this to go down. I've read a lot about rage and after the assailant "destroys" the source of his rage the rage dissipates. He knew he hit her with at least one of his bullets because she stopped screaming and there was no response from her after the shooting, he likely believed that she was dead. There is a 17 minute break between when he shot her and when the neighbors heard more shots. That does not fit my theory. My theory includes that he took 17 minutes to cool down, feel fear of punishment, call his father and brother, concoct the assailant story, and finally break down the door with the cricket bat - making loud sounds in a marble and tile enclosure with the sliding patio doors now open should/could sound like more gunfire to the neighbors.

BIB3 Really? I don't know? He seems to be still full of himself and wanting a fight, he really believes he can win it - walk free. I can't even understand why he is paying money for a PR firm. I mean he is finished professionally - his money did not come from Gold Medals it came from corporations using his image, that image is gone now and is not coming back. Like OJ Simpson, he is done he just does not see it yet for some odd reason. Or maybe that is what his is trying to travel now is all about. LOL
 
liverpoollou said:
You could be right. At the time, I thought he had to say he was on his stumps, otherwise he would have had to say he sat on the bed and took so many minutes to put on legs.....making it more likely he knew Reeva was not in bed.

If he has lied in his Affidavit, he must be in such a state mentally wondering how he is to get out of it.

I did in a previous post speculate that Reeve may have seen the fatal shot coming and put up her hand to protect herself. That's pure speculation on mind part.
Click to expand...

BIB Outstanding! I have been following this (obviously) but that thought never crossed my mind. Thank you for that! And I believe that you may be correct that is how he ended up legless in his Affidavit. Or he played the Vulnerable Card with the police. :-) The two go hand-hand, either way it is not logical to go chasing after an intruder on his stumps with a handgun when there were so many other options. And no concern for Reeva...
 
DriveBy said:
I use BIB as Bit In Bold, I know you do too, but so others can follow - we are both new here, I posted the first time yesterday after you.

BIB1 The master bedroom is described in the press over there in two parts: the bedroom and the bathroom. The hallway between the two is still considered the bedroom. The the one casing found in the bedroom would be from the first shot fired from the bathroom door entry, it seems.

BIB2 I see him in a rage for the 15-45 seconds that it took for this to go down. I've read a lot about rage and after the assailant "destroys" the source of his rage the rage dissipates. He knew he hit her with at least one of his bullets because she stopped screaming and there was no response from her after the shooting, he likely believed that she was dead. There is a 17 minute break between when he shot her and when the neighbors heard more shots. That does not fit my theory. My theory includes that he took 17 minutes to cool down, feel fear of punishment, call his father and brother, concoct the assailant story, and finally break down the door with the cricket bat - making loud sounds in a marble and tile enclosure with the sliding patio doors now open should/could sound like more gunfire to the neighbors.

BIB3 Really? I don't know? He seems to be still full of himself and wanting a fight, he really believes he can win it - walk free. I can't even understand why he is paying money for a PR firm. I mean he is finished professionally - his money did not come from Gold Medals it came from corporations using his image, that image is gone now and is not coming back. Like OJ Simpson, he is done he just does not see it yet for some odd reason. Or maybe that is what his is trying to travel now is all about. LOL
Click to expand...

This is the theory I was going along with originally

http://www.justcurious.co.za/2013/02/the-oscar-weekend-that-was/

but apparently it is now a redundant theory.

He probably wants his passport back to do a disappearing act. I think his stress levels must be really high. Unless he is a complete delusionalist, he must know it is all over now. I reckon a breakdown is on the cards.....unfit to stand trial.

I actually do think he must be suffering mental torture, I mean if he stands trial it must be a certainty he is going to prison. I have no idea about South African legal system, but I think I heard the charge of "Premeditated murder of Reeva" is not transferrable. I take that to mean that is the charge that he will answer to. He won't be charged with unlawful killing of an intruder. So if the Judge thinks there is not enough evidence to support the charge of premeditated murder of Reeva - that's it I don't know what happens then?
 
DriveBy said:
"Pistorius wanted to be able to return to the scene of the crime and speak to neighbours, they said."

Can someone answer this question for me: "Why does he (Mr. Pistorius, personally) want to do that?"

I'm mystified.
Click to expand...

19. I do not know the identity of any witness upon whom the state will rely in order to attempt to prove a case against me. In any event I have no intention to interfere with any witness as I have no cause to do so and I undertake not to do so.

Yeh right !!!
 
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