General Discussion Thread #2

[liverpoollou]

19. I do not know the identity of any witness upon whom the state will rely in order to attempt to prove a case against me. In any event I have no intention to interfere with any witness as I have no cause to do so and I undertake not to do so.

Yeh right !!!

It crossed my mind a few days ago that I had read that the other lady who was going to press charges Taylor Cassidy Memory (I think that is her name) was a neighbour of Oscar's. I wondered if she still lives in the same complex and if she could be one of the witnesses in Reeva's case, hence Oscar settling up with her.

 

[liverpoollou]

"Pistorius wanted to be able to return to the scene of the crime and speak to neighbours, they said."

Can someone answer this question for me: "Why does he (Mr. Pistorius, personally) want to do that?"

I'm mystified.

Like I said, maybe Ms Cassidy Memory is one of the witnesses......she was a neighbour of his at the time of the incident of the door falling on her, she could still live there.......he could want to "up his offer" to her on a one-to-one (face-to-face) basis.

As an aside, when the shots happened was there any mention of the dogs starting to bark......I know my dog would start barking at the sound of a gunshot?

 

[Estelle]

Twitter.com

Simon‏@prozac_pusher

Can I say this?... Oscar Pistorius is guilty.. Why else would he want his bail conditions reviewed??.. He wants to flee!!!.. #GuiltyasOscar


New Statesman‏@NewStatesman

Weekend #longread: Hedley Twidle on the Oscar Pistorius case - history written on a woman’s body http://ow.ly/iA3H6


capriconza3‏@capriconza3

steenkamp family want oscar pistorius to pay-up while oscar pistorius wants to leave south africa http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/2013/03/08/steenkamps-considering-civil-claim-against-pistorius

 

[soozieqtips]

As an aside, when the shots happened was there any mention of the dogs starting to bark......I know my dog would start barking at the sound of a gunshot?

As of yet, I've heard nothing about the dogs barking. If they were making a noise, OP's story would be a little more credible. At least he could say the dogs were barking and because he heard noises from the bathroom, he was convinced someone had broken in. I stayed in Harare with some friends about 10 years ago, and the security around the house was overwhelming! They had 2 guard dogs who would go nuts if they heard an unexpected sound, so for OP to claim he thought Reeva was an intruder having heard no warning from the dogs is a bit far fetched (on top of all the other oddities in his story).

 

[liverpoollou]

As of yet, I've heard nothing about the dogs barking. If they were making a noise, OP's story would be a little more credible. At least he could say the dogs were barking and because he heard noises from the bathroom, he was convinced someone had broken in. I stayed in Harare with some friends about 10 years ago, and the security around the house was overwhelming! They had 2 guard dogs who would go nuts if they heard an unexpected sound, so for OP to claim he thought Reeva was an intruder having heard no warning from the dogs is a bit far fetched (on top of all the other oddities in his story).

No I think you misunderstood me, I meant if the dogs started barking upon the sound of a bullet........Wouldn't that stop Oscar in his tracks (if he is innocent) by thinking Oh My God they are only barking now......there is no intruder?

 

[soozieqtips]

No I think you misunderstood me, I meant if the dogs started barking upon the sound of a bullet........Wouldn't that stop Oscar in his tracks (if he is innocent) by thinking Oh My God they are only barking now......there is no intruder?

Oh I see. Sorry. Yes, you'd think that if the dogs started barking at the sound of a gun shot, OP would automatically stop shooting. But if they did bark, I guess he could say (pretend) he was so caught up in the moment and wasn't thinking rationally, which is why he was forced to carry on shooting.

 

[Mango33]

As of yet, I've heard nothing about the dogs barking. If they were making a noise, OP's story would be a little more credible. At least he could say the dogs were barking and because he heard noises from the bathroom, he was convinced someone had broken in. I stayed in Harare with some friends about 10 years ago, and the security around the house was overwhelming! They had 2 guard dogs who would go nuts if they heard an unexpected sound, so for OP to claim he thought Reeva was an intruder having heard no warning from the dogs is a bit far fetched (on top of all the other oddities in his story).

I too am interested to know if the dogs behavior was something he considered at the time and if they really were near his bedroom/bathroom windows. But even if there had been an intruder I don't think the dogs would have necessarily barked. Some days back Carol70 discussed how in SA it is not uncommon for intruders to first poison the dogs. So silence from the dogs would not necessarily mean no intruder to him.

 

[natsound]

1. That is a nonsensical question. He targeted Reeva in the bathroom with a gun and shot her. He targeted her behind the door using her screams (eyewitness Affidavits) and his intimate knowledge of the distances and space within the small toilet stall. You should post why you strongly believe he did not know it was her as he fired four (4) bullets at her. Can't wait to read that. I mean twelve hours ago you were under the strong belief that Reeva had died quickly in the toilet stall.
2. See above
4&5 See my previous post this morning.

Great post. It's virtually impossible to believe that a man like OP, of reasonable intelligence and sophisticated knowledge of guns/gun safety, would shoot blindly at a threat without making sure the other person in the house is safe.

I think the spin doctors have worked on many who are actually entertaining OP's improbable story.

 

[natsound]

Why did OP's Affidavit say that he was on his stumps firing at the "noise?" I believe he played the Vulnerable Card with the police when they questioned him before his arrest, so it is in their notes / reports.

Then he had to continue that lie with his attorney's and specialists, and since the door had been confiscated the day of the homicide they could not correct his story for him to match the forensic facts that the police / prosecutors knew but they did not. Namely the shots were fired by OP standing tall on his legs. That is one of the fatal flaws of his Affidavit. More to come. IMO

"Forensic teams are still working at the luxury home of the double amputee, until this week one of South Africa's most celebrated heroes.
They are reported to have removed the bullet-marked bathroom door as evidence. According to the paper's source, they apparently believe that Miss Steenkamp was sitting on the lavatory when she was shot."

It amazes me that defense attorneys would let OP release a sworn affidavit without looking at the door and making sure they could corroborate his story. But I guess, with enough spin, defense attorneys could convince us that the moon is made of green cheese.

 

[liverpoollou]

Oh I see. Sorry. Yes, you'd think that if the dogs started barking at the sound of a gun shot, OP would automatically stop shooting. But if they did bark, I guess he could say (pretend) he was so caught up in the moment and wasn't thinking rationally, which is why he was forced to carry on shooting.

Thanks, I think it is highly likely the dogs did bark.....we know there was no intruder, hence no barking.......But surely the shots would have started them off. I am very curious to know what the eyewitnesses say they heard. I don't suppose we will know till the trial.

 

[liverpoollou]

I too am interested to know if the dogs behavior was something he considered at the time and if they really were near his bedroom/bathroom windows. But even if there had been an intruder I don't think the dogs would have necessarily barked. Some days back Carol70 discussed how in SA it is not uncommon for intruders to first poison the dogs. So silence from the dogs would not necessarily mean no intruder to him.

It would if they only started barking upon hearing gunshots.......then they haven't been poisened. IIRC the LE said upon looking out of the bathroom window on the morning of the shooting, two dogs were seen directly outside.

 

[DriveBy]

He had called the hospital, he wasn't carrying her around the house, the car was running in the driveway and he was carrying her to the car to drive her to the hospital like Netcare had told him too. Nowhere does it state he called his family, he made 2 calls, one to estate management and one to Netcare. Management arrived with a doctor who lives on the estate as he was comming down the stairs with her. If anything, he called his brother/father after she was pronounced dead as any normal person would.

BIB1 Maybe. No record of that on the phones that were confiscated from the crime scene (WO Botha). And the phone that he used that night was secreted away from the crime scene by either his brother or his father, who arrived before Authorities did; and the Investigators were not told of its existence until the bail hearing had begun (Roux). Why secret his phone from Investigators? Looks damning, not helpful, to do that IMO.

BIB2 Why did he not keep going straight to the car and get her to the hospital? She had a gunshot wound to her head, literally no time to waste. Why lay her at the bottom of the stairs as the security guards and neighbors entered the home and start the dramatic "she died in my arms" performance? When security and neighbors arrived, that is when he picked her up and carried he down, they actually witnessed him carrying her down the stairs.

BIB3 Then how and / or why were they at the crime scene before the Authorities arrived?

BIB4 I believe that Mr. Pistorious's version of "normal," after the paramedics pronounced Reeva dead, was to call a McClaren car salesman/owner friend of his at 3:55.

 

[DriveBy]

It amazes me that defense attorneys would let OP release a sworn affidavit without looking at the door and making sure they could corroborate his story. But I guess, with enough spin, defense attorneys could convince us that the moon is made of green cheese.

From what I see they did it because if they did not put forth a "story" they did not believe that the Magistrate would grant bail. Here are Roux's comments after the bail decision:

"Asked about the stressful ruling, the lawyer (Roux) admitted it had been a “bit hairy” as they waited.

He smiled and quipped: “Do I have a headache? Of course I was tense."

Asked if he was happy, he added: “I’m always happy when something good happens. I think it is a fair decision to grant bail.

“It was a bit hairy but it will be fine.”

Asked where his client was staying he said his client did not want to return to the house where Reeva died, explaining: “We don’t know yet but he doesn’t want to go back there.”

One lawyer added: “We believe in our client’s case.”

While his colleague said immediately after the ruling: “Jeez that was tense. the palms of my hands were sweating throughout.”

 

[natsound]

From what I see they did it because if they did not put forth a "story" they did not believe that the Magistrate would grant bail. Here are Roux's comments after the bail decision:

respectfully snipped

I've been hearing that OP and his defense team are now married to the affidavit, though. Were they more concerned with getting him out on bail than winning at trial?

 

[shane13]

Oscar wants to travel overseashttp://www.citypress.co.za/news/oscar-wants-to-travel-overseas/

Details of Oscar Pistorius’ attorneys argument to the judge asking to drop certain bail conditions have been leaked, and I excerpt them here.

“Your Worship:

We Respectfully request certain bail conditions be henceforth discontinued and list the reason for each such request.


1. Alcohol drinking banned. Reason: Oscar Pistorius has only shot one person while under the influence before.
2. Prevention of communicating with his neighbors. Reason: Oscar Pistorius has only slammed a door on just one neighbor previously.
3. Overseas Travel Restriction. Reason: Oscar Pistorius has never shot anyone overseas.

Respectfully submitted 8 March 2013.

Signed:
Oscar Pistorius Defense Counsel, assisted by Shane13.

It's not too dissimilar to my humor.
http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-courts/pistorius-to-challenge-bail-conditions-1.1483502#.UTtBqDcs1ac

"...In papers before the Pretoria High Court, his lawyers argued that Pistorius should to be able to travel, given that Magistrate Desmond Nair found during his bail application that he was not a flight risk.

They argue he should be able to travel if given permission from his case investigating officer, eNCA reported.

Pistorius' legal team also contend it should not be necessary for him to report to the Brooklyn police station in Pretoria.

They also sought an end to being supervised by a probation officer and submitting to compulsory drug and alcohol testing.
"There is no desire by the appellant to use any prohibited substance or alcohol, but the condition imposed is not warranted or substantiated by facts," the application reportedly read.

Pistorius would also ask the court to allow him to return to his Pretoria home where he shot his model girlfriend Reeva Steenkamp on Valentines Day.

His legal team said it was unfair to place a "blanket order" which does not allow him to talk to the residents within the security complex..."

The last one is an insult--to ask a judge to allow him to talk to possible witnesses!

 

[natsound]

BIB1 Maybe. No record of that on the phones that were confiscated from the crime scene (WO Botha). And the phone that he used that night was secreted away from the crime scene by either his brother or his father, who arrived before Authorities did; and the Investigators were not told of its existence until the bail hearing had begun (Roux). Why secret his phone from Investigators? Looks damning, not helpful, to do that IMO.

BIB2 Why did he not keep going straight to the car and get her to the hospital? She had a gunshot wound to her head, literally no time to waste. Why lay her at the bottom of the stairs as the security guards and neighbors entered the home and start the dramatic "she died in my arms" performance? When security and neighbors arrived, that is when he picked her up and carried he down, they actually witnessed him carrying her down the stairs.

BIB3 Then how and / or why were they at the crime scene before the Authorities arrived?

BIB4 I believe that Mr. Pistorious's version of "normal," after the paramedics pronounced Reeva dead, was to call a McClaren car salesman/owner friend of his at 3:55.

The dramatic carrying of the body reminds me of JonBenet Ramsey's dad "discovering" her body in the basement and carrying her up the stairs. Something fishy about it.

 

[DriveBy]

respectfully snipped

I've been hearing that OP and his defense team are now married to the affidavit, though. Were they more concerned with getting him out on bail than winning at trial?

I think that Mr. Pistorius was more concerned with getting out on bail than winning at trial. His attorneys would have advised him to say nothing in his Affidavit for the bail hearing, other than to deny all charges, period. That would have been the smart thing to do. He desperately wanted his freedom, immediately; I know you or I if facing a life sentence might regard a few days in jail as tolerable, but not so for OP. Roux believed that OP would likely not get bail unless he put forth his version of events. So OP instructed them to prepare his Affidavit. Bad move.

 

[natsound]

I think that Mr. Pistorius was more concerned with getting out on bail than winning at trial. His attorneys would have advised him to say nothing in his Affidavit for the bail hearing, other than to deny all charges, period. That would have been the smart thing to do. He desperately wanted his freedom, immediately; I know you or I if facing a life sentence might regard a few days in jail as tolerable, but not so for OP. Roux believed that OP would likely not get bail unless he put forth his version of events. So OP instructed them to prepare his Affidavit. Bad move.

I can see that scenario. OP has been glorified for so long, I don't think he's in the business of taking advice from anyone. He's his own worst enemy.

 

[Estelle]

I think that Mr. Pistorius was more concerned with getting out on bail than winning at trial. His attorneys would have advised him to say nothing in his Affidavit for the bail hearing, other than to deny all charges, period. That would have been the smart thing to do. He desperately wanted his freedom, immediately; I know you or I if facing a life sentence might regard a few days in jail as tolerable, but not so for OP. Roux believed that OP would likely not get bail unless he put forth his version of events. So OP instructed them to prepare his Affidavit. Bad move.

I hope they are not so foolish as to change the conditions of his bail because IMO he is a flight risk. He will escape via boat or land to a country with no extradition agreement and they will never be able to get him back.

IMO he will now try to hamper, scamper and tamper!

I will have even less respect for SA if they change even one condition.

OP does not know the meaning of the word, 'discipline", from what we know about him, he has never been disciplined or punished in his life.

He was prepared to write that affidavit because he figured if he could get out on bail, he could escape justice as he has money. The worst thing they did was to let him out on bail. I wonder if they can gaol him on June 4 or before?

Fancy wanting to live in the crime scene again which has to remain the crime scene!

OP has no guilt, no remorse and wants to act as if nothing has happened.

I hope Reeva's parents bring on that civil case before he escapes.

 

[shane13]

Since the relationship of aspects of this case to that of JonBenet Ramsey was just brought up:
I wonder if people know the recent revelation that a Grand Jury did bring an indictment against Ramsey's parents, back in the day.
But, in an unheard of move, the District Attorney refused to indict!
Showing that SA is not the only country corrupt from top to bottom.