General Discussion Thread #4

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Lemon Tree said:
Shane13 - You are correct, OP states in the BH Affidavit that the bedroom was "pitch dark". The lighting in the bathroom is indirectly referred to by OP saying "I think I must then have turned on the lights."

Based on my very amateur astronomy and the position of OP's bathroom, it would have been reasonably dark, but not pitch dark at 3am. http://is.gd/2gTcE7 (set location to South Africa | Johannesburg).
Click to expand...

Well no.
If you read the first paragraph about the toilet, he implies that the bathroom was lit the whole time by saying that he could see the window was open and that the toilet door was closed and someone must be in the loo. Later on, the "I must then have turned on the light" to me is his way of saying he turned on the bedroom light at that PIT.

The bathroom was always lit according to his affi--or my interpretation (and others) of it.

And that quote you have IMO (and others) refers to when he turned on the bedroom light (allegedly) for the first time.
 
Estelle said:
http://citizen.co.za/27736/newspapers-ordered-to-apologise-to-pistorius/
Click to expand...

Originally Posted by shane13
"Deep" Question of the Day"

Will, or did, City Press publish the news that City Press was chastized for one of their news stories by the Press Ombudsman?

Quote:
Retief dismissed claims brought by Pistorius, his family and Burgess that the newspapers had failed to verify its information and ignored the information they supplied to the paper. He ruled that the papers were justified in publishing the allegations as allegations, as that was the information they had at their disposal at the time of publication. ”The report was misleading, but not deliberately so,” he said.

Clearly my post was about whether City Press itself will cite that City Press was given the infraction by the Ombudsman.
 
Estelle said:
BIB So if this witness heard eight gunshots, could it be that OP fired four through the door and another four once the panels were off and collected four of the bullets giving them to his brother to get rid of?

I have accepted the possibility of echoes but could this also be another possibility?
Click to expand...

I have cited the physics of the situation re reflections (commonly referred to as echoes) off of houses at the greater distances that likely led earwitnesses to hear more shots than were fired--which is a common occurence from outdoor earwitnesses.

What you are proposing here is I guess theoretically possible, but extremely far-fetched. It's one thing for Carl and/or Oldwage to find or be given a 5th phone. Somehow I don't think with all the cops and other SAPS personnel there in the bathroom, that anyone could have gouged out spent bullets from walls or such.

Remember they'd have to take
1. the casings
2. the spent bullets
3. perfectly repair the holes in walls etc.

So extremely unlikely what you are proposing if you follow the logic of it.

Update: Then there is also the simple matter of the # of bullets missing from the magazine of his gun. So I am sure if cops are satisfied at 4 bullets fired, so should we.
 
I just came across this transcript of an interview. I have never seen this before so have just pasted a few snippets about OP's vulnerability and fear which will be argued in court.

ANDERSON COOPER 360 DEGREES

Oscar Pistorius: Brutal Murder Or Grave Mistake?

Aired June 8, 2013 - 20:00 ET

http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1306/08/acd.01.html

Examples of OP's vulnerability and fear

CURNOW: It wasn't always an easy childhood. He often felt vulnerable, he said, especially when it got dark. He once told me about a frightening night at boarding school.

O. PISTORIUS: One night, we had steel beds and steel -- steel bed frames and steel lock. And the guys threw lighter fluid on it and they hid my legs and they lit them and they told me that the hospital was on fire. And I jumped at them. I always leave my legs next to my bed.

And I jumped up and I couldn't find them. And I looked in the front of the bed and I couldn't find them. And I thought, like, the whole hospital is burning down, because (INAUDIBLE) or whatever. And they are all running out. And I was getting in such a...

CURNOW: That's funny.

O. PISTORIUS: And after about 15, 30 seconds, the lighter fluid evaporated and I was like left there in such a panic.

CURNOW (voice-over): But despite his vulnerability, his parents raised him to take on his life at full speed.
Click to expand...


O. PISTORIUS: This was my very first motorbike, a four-wheeler. And I got sick of it after a while and got a bigger one. But this was so much fun already.

CURNOW (on camera): So you have always been a speed freak?

O. PISTORIUS: Yes, I think so. I have had motorbikes since I was 4 years old and I loved them.

CURNOW: It seems your parents were amazing with you.

O. PISTORIUS: Yes, I think my parents pushed me to try anything that I liked that my brother and my sister were doing. And they never said because I have got a disability or because I don't have legs that I'm not able to do something.

CURNOW (voice-over): Pistorius reportedly often carried a gun and had a love of shooting. In November of 2011, he posted this picture on Twitter along with the tweet, "Had a 96 percent head shot over 300 meters from 50 shots. Bam."

LOUW: Oscar was always, always a bit of -- I call it scared.

CURNOW (on camera): So you say Oscar was scared. Was it because he had no legs? Did he feel very, very vulnerable? Or was it something different?

LOUW: You know, I have heard a lot of stories in the press, but without these prosthetics, very vulnerable. Only a guy working with these guys and themselves will know how vulnerable they are.

VAN ZYL: I think a lot of people forget the fact that, if he's without his prosthetics, well, he's a mere 3.5', 4' high, maybe.
Click to expand...
 
I have to say this looks like "friends of Oscar" attempting to create the belief that he can be scared, after the event.

If the following is true it is a little disturbing.

“Then this book's second part will blow you away at revealing the hidden medical problems that can explain Oscar's rage, impulsivity, jealousy, and sadism or schedenfreude, and other strange behavior, exhibited the last few years of his life. The hidden medical problems described include porphyria--which Rochlitz informs us--is NOT a rare disease, and several others that are not well known but affect the brain and behavior in many.”

Oscar Pistorius: The Possible Porphyria Factor: Steve Rochlitz: 9780945262657: Amazon.com: [email]Books@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com[/email]/images/I/51vUjh36t%2BL.@@AMEPARAM@@51vUjh36t%2BL


Please note this was written AFTER the crime.
 
On Oscar's Alleged Fear and Disability

First Oscar, in his book, Blade Runner makes clear that his mother raised him not to feel any different than anyone else from his very first memories. And he has said many times--until the shooting--that he has not felt disabled or such throughout his life. Indeed he states how fast he could run on his stumps

Now with the trial, if numerous earwitnesses state that they heard loud arguiing throughout the nght leding into screams just before the shots were fired--it makes any claims about disability or fear a MOOT POINT.

Which is why I won't repeat them here. It is meaningless to the crime, if the numerous witnesses are correct.

Furthermore again, the cops and/or estate security were there a couple of hours before the shooting.

His alleged fear or his known disability are quite irrelevant to the crime if it happened as the earwitnesses allegedly are stating.

If Pros proves its case, I wonder if the disabled community will be angry with OP for trying to use that as a "defense."
 
Estelle said:
I just came across this transcript of an interview. I have never seen this before so have just pasted a few snippets about OP's vulnerability and fear which will be argued in court.

ANDERSON COOPER 360 DEGREES

Oscar Pistorius: Brutal Murder Or Grave Mistake?

Aired June 8, 2013 - 20:00 ET

http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1306/08/acd.01.html

Examples of OP's vulnerability and fear
Click to expand...

Estelle: Don't you think that van Zyl's claim that OP is missing 2-2.5 ft of his legs is too much?
 
shane13 said:
On Oscar's Alleged Fear and Disability

First Oscar, in his book, Blade Runner makes clear that his mother raised him not to feel any different than anyone else from his very first memories. And he has said many times--until the shooting--that he has not felt disabled or such throughout his life. Indeed he states how fast he could run on his stumps

Now with the trial, if numerous earwitnesses state that they heard loud arguiing throughout the nght leding into screams just before the shots were fired--it makes any claims about disability or fear a MOOT POINT.

Which is why I won't repeat them here. It is meaningless to the crime, if the numerous witnesses are correct.

Furthermore again, the cops and/or estate security were there a couple of hours before the shooting.

His alleged fear or his known disability are quite irrelevant to the crime if it happened as the earwitnesses allegedly are stating.

If Pros proves its case, I wonder if the disabled community will be angry with OP for trying to use that as a "defense."
Click to expand...


I agree. I hope the witnesses will prove to be as strong as we are expecting. If not, I can see the DT using his illness, if true, to explain his paranoid and unpredictable behaviour that would not be a personality flaw of a disabled person without porphyria. They may well use his mental health issues to get him the shortest possible sentence or even or even a suspended sentence. All guesswork though.
 
IF RS was crouched behind the door and all the 4 shots were fired continously behind the door and and she couldnt move and shout and she died at the scene , how will the defence explain so much blood on the left side of the toilet bowl ?

*she either was wounded and alive for a while and could sit herself left side her left hand maybe on the wall supporting herself or
*was dead already and sitted there as if to give the impression she was sitting on the toilet but as she was dead couldnt be sitted in the middle but on the side..
 
The call out boxes show that some of the neighbor-witnesses are adjacent to his house. So it seems like there can be little doubt from them where the shouts or screams came from. JMO.

What a difference this is from the 600 meters first cited at the bail hearing. Were the Pros and Botha genuises to give a false impression to OP's DT, when they knew they had earwitnesses right next to his house? Or did these witnesses recently announce their knowledge?

1-71384ad456.jpg
 
Has anyone saved the timeline of the night we made on the prev threads?
Couldnt find it and try to make a new one... Can u help me?:seeya:


*Late lunch OP with JD ..RS was at Myers house prepared her gift photo frame

18:00 Reeva arrived
18:10 OP Arrived
18:30 OP on the phone with friend ALex P
20:00 Sounds of a domestic argument
22:00 were in the bedroom tv yoga
22:00 - 22:30 Reeva text to Myers
01:00 Going on arguments for hours until finally neighbors called security
02:00 -Nonstop fighting loud arguments
Call to Estate Manager and ask him to call ambulance
Call to Netcare
As was on the stairs Stander arrived, a doctor living there also arrived
03:20 Called father and sister
03:55 OP called friend JD
04:00 Estate Mans daughter call to coach Van Zyl
04:15 Botha arrived
 
MURDERER_SERVANT said:
According to the source, disturbances at the Pistorius mansion were a regular occurrence. The source also claimed Pistorius often hosted boisterous parties. “He was very social and seemingly had a lot of friends,” the source told Rekord’s online publication, Looklocal.

The source said that although Pistorius was a personable acquaintance for most residents in the estate, some did not regard him as the dream neighbour. “Regardless of the whisperings of Oscar’s often rowdy behaviour we were all very shocked by the tragedy – it rocked our estate to the core”.
Click to expand...

http://www.looklocal.co.za/lookloca...red-to-be-seen-carrying-Reeva-s-bleeding-body
 
MURDERER_SERVANT said:
Has anyone saved the timeline of the night we made on the prev threads?
Couldnt find it and try to make a new one... Can u help me?:seeya:


*Late lunch OP with JD ..RS was at Myers house prepared her gift photo frame

18:00 Reeva arrived
18:10 OP Arrived
18:30 OP on the phone with friend ALex P
20:00 Sounds of a domestic argument heard by neighbours
20.10 OP and Graham Binge exchanged various messages on the cell phone based messaging system WhatsApp.
20.25 OP phoned Graham Binge
20.45 Call ended
22:00 were in the bedroom tv yoga
22:00 - 22:30 Reeva text to Myers
01:00 Going on arguments for hours until finally neighbors called security
02:00 -Nonstop fighting loud arguments
Call to Estate Manager and ask him to call ambulance
Call to Netcare
As was on the stairs Stander arrived, a doctor living there also arrived
03:20 Called father and sister
03:55 OP called friend JD
04:00 Estate Mans daughter call to coach Van Zyl
04:15 Botha arrived
Click to expand...

Added what is in red.
 
Samantha's mother is also testifying. This is what she had to say the day after Reeva's death.

“Then, one day after Steenkamp’s death, Taylor’s mother, Trish Taylor, wrote a public post on Facebook in which she accused Pistorius of being reckless with his guns and saying she was grateful that her own daughter was out of his “clutches.”

"I am so glad that Sammy is safe and sound and out of the clutches of that man,” Taylor wrote in a Facebook post, according to the Herald Sun. “There were a few occasions where things could have gone wrong with her and his gun during the time they dated. My condolences to the family whose daughter has passed away. My heart breaks for you.”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...84466/Oscar-Pistorius-murder-charge-live.html
 
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