General Discussion Thread No. 16

[SleuthMom]

I would respectfully ask you not to be sarcastic about Europeans as I would certainly not be sarcastic about Americans.

I was sarcastic about the excuse of being an "European thing" (which I absolutely disagree, because this is a parental issue that has nothing to do with cultural differences IMHO) I was NOT being sarcastic about Europeans neither disrespectful of them.

And I am not an American by the way.

 

[Pocono Sleuther]

Hotels often offer what they call a baby listening service. This can mean one of several options:-

1) a baby monitor is provided
2) The parents leave their room phone off the hook and reception "listen in"
3) someone patrols the hotel/complex at intervals and listens at the door for a crying child.

For 2) and 3) the parents will either notify the hotel reception of where they can be contacted or they carry a pager.

The disadvantage of baby listening is that no-one actually goes into the room to check the child. If the McCanns had used the hotel's baby listening service, it probably wouldn't have made any difference - except that it might have been even later when Maddie was discovered missing.

One to one babysitting is rarely offered by hotels but they can often put you in touch with a local person who offers this service and you pay the local person directly. The hotels don't accept responsibility for the babysitter in this scenario.

Baby monitors often don't work if the hotel is sprawling or an old building where the walls are thick. We used this service when our older children were little. We notified reception of where we'd be (within the hotel complex) and they would contact us if necessary. Loads of people used the service.

However, don't take my word for it - Googling is your best bet. There's a website called Mumsnet or something like that where they discuss it and exchange information about hotels which offer it.

I fully appreciate that this is something that Americans find very odd I wonder if it's maybe similar to the way that many Brits view the American gun culture? However, it's a fact that it's a service which is found and used in Europe within hotels or hotel complexes. I think they'll possibly diminish in popularity now.

Thanks Jayelles for going into a better description for me. I appreciate it. And, I'm not putting down the Euro way of life or parenting, belive me we Americans have our own faults. I just do not believe listening should acceptable as a means of watching a child while you are out of the room. A child could be choking and therefore not crying. A child could have fallen and be unconcious. It does seem very irresponsible to me. As a parent, I have used a baby monitor during naptime, but I've never left my home and rarely even went to our yard.
On a sad note, I doubt anything short of an intervention of some sort would have saved sweet Maddie. I'm on the fence of it having been an act of rage or an overdose accident, but I do believe the Mc's are fully involved and responsible. I also am fearful that Maddie may fall the way of JBR.

 

[SleuthMom]

And, I'm not putting down the Euro way of life or parenting, belive me we Americans have our own faults. I just do not believe listening should acceptable as a means of watching a child while you are out of the room. A child could be choking and therefore not crying. A child could have fallen and be unconcious. It does seem very irresponsible to me. As a parent, I have used a baby monitor during naptime, but I've never left my home and rarely even went to our yard.

Personally, I do not think it has nothing to do with whether they are Europeans, Americans or Chinese. The truth is there are responsible, caring parents EVERYWHERE as there are irresponsible, uncaring ones as well EVERYWHERE who do not want to be bothered by children.

Just as there are some Europeans who would use these services and leave their babies alone, there are others who won't because of the same reasons you stated. Whether you come from the USA, Mongolia, Iraq or Ecuador does not matter. There are MANY types of parents wherever you go.

 

[philamena]

....

I didn't know my mother prayed until she told me she said a prayer every night for Madeleine and her family.

Wow, that is so sweet.

 

[Pocono Sleuther]

I agree SleuthMom. Which is why I've stated in a previous post that this in and of itself should raise a flag to those who still believe in the Mc's. They were and I'm sure still are irresponsible parents.
THE day and days after Maddie was reported 'missing' by them, they left the twins. Now, had I believed my oldest was kidnapped by a stranger or worse a pedo ring, I would NEVER have left the others out of my sight, not for a split second. Another red flag. I keep thinking of their actions in the days immediately following the disappearance and I can NOT for the life of me understand ANY of their actions. Why haven't they called upon a firm such a Equusearch to come in and help? Where is the focused searching? It's non existent. They continually lead AWAY from themselves and onto other countries. What they consider leads is laughable at best. They KNOW this child is in heaven. They KNOW what happened. Kate is frail and looks immensely stressed (read guilty) to me. Gerry may be better at detaching from his feelings. Why can't they stop this charade? Allow poor Maddie the respect she deserves and did NOT get in life.

 

[SleuthMom]

Pocono, I am afraid they will keep this up until the end. They are darn sure her body is never going to be found but where did they hide it???

I do see the same thing you see in Kate's face, I am not sure how long she will keep it though...if it wasn't for Gerry (who looks like the dominant type) I think she would have confessed by now but she is terrified to lose the twins.

Funny thing though, since she seems to be very Catholic, who does she think she is fooling? They may be able to fool the police, their relatives, friends, supporters but there is ONE BIG person up there who they cannot fool and who saw everything and continues seeing everything. THAT belief alone, should make her confess IF she has a conscious.

 

[Squishified]

Pocono & SleuthMom,
I totally agree with both of you!

 

[SleuthMom]

Pocono & SleuthMom,
I totally agree with both of you!

:blowkiss:

 

[Barnaby]

Just found this, weird!

Belfast Telegraph online

'Every time I close my eyes I see Maddy's face'

As the parents of Madeleine McCann admit they plan to consult psychics, Strabane mum of five Kate Houston (47) claims the youngster has been in touch with her. Gráinne McCarry finds out more

Thursday, October 04, 2007
You say Madeleine McCann has visited you. Tell us more.
I've thought of her a lot since she disappeared and I keep a picture of her beside my bed. I haven't been following the case in the media, but I often wonder about where she could be.

I was sitting up in my bedroom about four weeks after Madeleine disappeared wondering where she was - that's when the word 'navro' came to me in the form of a little girl's voice. The voice was coming from the left hand side of the bed where her picture is kept. She kept saying 'navro' and 'novarina'.
I did an internet search on the words and a found a place in Portugal called 'Mavro' which is on the coast. Novarina, also, has a literary connection to Portugal.
But, when I think of the word 'navro' a native Indian or an American connection comes to mind. It took me back to my childhood and watching old cowboys and Indians films.

What happened next?
Information comes to me in a cryptic way and I have to try and decipher it.
I decided to go to my Tarot cards to find out more information. They brought up an educated man with a good reputation and standing and a younger man. Something went wrong and the younger man was somehow brought into it. He got caught up in it, the whole adrenalin rush at the time of being involved in whatever went on. But, he didn't realise what he was getting himself into. The educated man is clever and a charmer. He's a rogue and behind closed doors he is not actually the person everyone thinks he is.
They also showed a lady, a woman who was hardened emotionally. She has this belief that no matter what, she can walk away unscathed.
I kept being brought back to a place with two streams; one runs into water, maybe a pool, and the other runs onto land. The area is barren, but green with a few trees in the distance.
There are two pillars and a connection with nuns or religion. There's an ancient theme or a historical feel to the area.

Any premonitions?
Every time I lie down or I close my eyes I see Madeleine's face. I can't tell if she's dead or alive as I can pick up messages from both dead and alive people.
To me, the person is always alive until I am told otherwise. Her face keeps coming back to me. The main message I keep getting is that in order to understand what happened they (the investigators) must go back to the very beginning and look in a different direction. There's something not right about this case, but I just can't put my finger on it ... someone could have been watching the children.

What are you going to do with this information?
I've a lot of notes written down that I hope to pass on to the correct source. I'm available if the McCanns have any questions about it.

From what age were you aware of your psychic abilities?
Three years old. I always seemed to be standing back from everyone else, on a different level from them. For me, it was like I was looking at people from a different world. I'd also had a sighting of the banshee cat when I was a young girl. I heard a high pitched wailing sound and saw a strange formation. I was living in Sion Mills and didn't know what the noise was. The next morning, a woman came to the door to tell us that my friend's mother had died and that the banshee had been seen the night before at the woman's door. Over the years I've heard people talking about the banshee or the banshee cat. It is said that only people with Mac/Mc or O' in their surname can see or hear them. My mother's maiden name had an O' in it ...

Do any of your family members possess a psychic ability?
Relatives on my mother's side have 'the gift'. They live in America.

How has being a clairvoyant impacted upon you?
There is no switching off from it. I would never dismiss them (the voices or sightings) at all as you never know when it could be important. They are coming to me because they need to talk to someone. It's very tiring - I'm very serious and focused about my work, it could take over my whole life if I let it.

Do you think US shows like Medium and The Ghost Whisperer have shed new light on psychics?
Yes, I think that they are helping to show the public that it is something that we have no control over. In Medium, Patricia Arquette's character has 'the gift' and the programme shows the effect it has on her family life. She wakens up a lot in the night to voices and visions and it causes a lot of disruption in her life.

You've helped the families of missing people to trace their loved ones. Explain.
The families contact me privately to see if I can shed any light into the whereabouts of their loved ones.
Out of respect to the families I don't discuss individual cases.
This can result in both sad and happy outcomes. The missing person isn't always dead, sometimes they have gone away to be by themselves for a while.
When the missing person comes to me, they direct me to where they are.

What services do you offer?
I read Tarot cards, palms and tea leaves. People get in touch through word of mouth recommendation and I try and fit them in when I've a free minute. I've had palm readings posted to me from as far away as Australia and America.
I, also, do spirit cleansing. People who are frightened or concerned about disturbances in their home contact me and ask me to go to their home. I find that a lot of the activity is just trapped energy connected to the people living there, for example, if there's a lot of stress in the house coming, a new baby or an adolescent teenager. It could also be spirits who are very restless and have lost their way. I pray for them that they will find it again.

What type of people come to you?
I help people who've lost loved ones and don't want to believe that their life has ended. It brings them comfort knowing that their loved ones exist in another world.

Are there any misconceptions you'd like to clear up?
I help families in cases where there are people missing presumed murdered. When I do this I am looking for the victim not the murderer. My gift isn't used to hunt out murderers and I'd like to emphasis that.

What's the most shocking or astonishing thing 'the gift' has revealed to you?
A woman came to me a few years ago and handed me a photo of three brothers. I didn't know who she was. I told her the middle boy would be ok, the boy on the right wouldn't have a long life and the one on the left would die a horrific death.
The woman contacted me a few years later to let me know that the boy on the left had been horrifically murdered, the boy on the right was killed by a train and the middle boy was ok.

There are a lot of cynics out there. What do you say to them?
You will always get people who don't believe in it or agree with it. I would say to them that if I was doing this in Biblical times I would be called a prophet.

 

[Pinkhammer]

Quote:
Gerry: "I went to the dump to throw some things away. Even there, people came up and said: 'I hope everything works out all right for you'
So he's still taking stuff to the dump, huh. Any guesses on what it was, and did the police know about it?

Don't they have sanitation services in Leicestershire? Can't doctors on the government payroll afford to have their garbage picked up?

This is very strange.

 

[Pinkhammer]

Barbaby--that is hilarious! Only people with Mc or O' in their name have The Gift? Like, half the Irish race??

 

[Texana]

Quote:
Gerry: "I went to the dump to throw some things away. Even there, people came up and said: 'I hope everything works out all right for you'
So he's still taking stuff to the dump, huh. Any guesses on what it was, and did the police know about it?

Don't they have sanitation services in Leicestershire? Can't doctors on the government payroll afford to have their garbage picked up?

This is very strange.

Apparently not. And they live in a very nice house, it appears.

One can only wonder what the poorer folk do, throw their refuse in the streets like the Middle Ages, I suppose.

 

[SleuthMom]

One can only wonder what the poorer folk do, throw their refuse in the streets like the Middle Ages, I suppose.

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

 

[colomom]

The disadvantage of baby listening is that no-one actually goes into the room to check the child. If the McCanns had used the hotel's baby listening service, it probably wouldn't have made any difference - except that it might have been even later when Maddie was discovered missing.

First thing please, referring to the Ocean Club as a "hotel" could be misleading as it gives you the impression of a single building. The Ocean Club is a "resort" with apartment buildings spread out over a large area. That said, this blog (http://anmblog.typepad.com/this_is_money_blog/2007/05/my_experience_o.html) written by a visitor to the resort states:

"The McCanns’ choice to leave their children at the flat and make regular checks is surprising given the alternatives. In their defence, they may have been expecting, as advertised in Mark Warner brochures, a ‘listening service’. Staff told us that the service had been discontinued because the apartments were too spread out."

One to one babysitting is rarely offered by hotels but they can often put you in touch with a local person who offers this service and you pay the local person directly. The hotels don't accept responsibility for the babysitter in this scenario.

And further:

"The resort, however, offered a baby-sitting service for 15 euros (£10) an hour, which was staffed by a member of the daytime nursery teams, or a ‘dining out club’. This involved parents dropping off children at the crèche where they would be supervised watching videos until they went to sleep. Parents would then return before 11.30 to scoop up their sleepy offspring."

That seems like a reasonable alternative to leaving your child alone in an unlocked apartment. It has also been reported that the McCanns had "reserved" a babysitter for the evening (I assume it was one who came and stayed at the apartment) but they cancelled their reservation in the afternoon. :waitasec:

Plus:

http://www.markwarner.co.uk/why-choose-us/sun/tons-of-fun-for-kids#item7

states:

Baby-sitting (different than daytime creche or drop-in evening creche)
Extra baby-sitting can be arranged in resort through the Childcare Manager at €12 - €15 per hour. Please note there is a lot of demand for this service and whilst every effort is made to accommodate requests, this service is subject to limited staff availability and cannot be guaranteed. Please give at least 24 hours notice if you require this service.

Gives me the impression that the sitters that come to your room are Mark Warner Ocean Club staff.

 

[daffodil]

Quote:
Gerry: "I went to the dump to throw some things away. Even there, people came up and said: 'I hope everything works out all right for you'
So he's still taking stuff to the dump, huh. Any guesses on what it was, and did the police know about it?

Don't they have sanitation services in Leicestershire? Can't doctors on the government payroll afford to have their garbage picked up?

This is very strange.

There is nothing strange about it at all,our binmen take day to day household refuse, larger items we take to the tip-at least I do and I am sure Jayelles and Gord do to.Really I do think too much is read into the smallest things :doh:

 

[gord]

Quote:
Gerry: "I went to the dump to throw some things away. Even there, people came up and said: 'I hope everything works out all right for you'
So he's still taking stuff to the dump, huh. Any guesses on what it was, and did the police know about it?

Don't they have sanitation services in Leicestershire? Can't doctors on the government payroll afford to have their garbage picked up?

This is very strange.

I am reading a lot of the threads at the moment open mouthed at the amount of - I must be careful with my words - mostly a lot of very harsh words against the Mccaans in who they are their whole beings as people

anyway I live in the UK - I am probably described as professional and I to go to the tip or the dump on a reasonable basis - we are not in the middle ages but we have very strict garbage disposable rules as the local council only pick up garbage in plastic bags - no garden waste , no heavy things etc - their garden must have been over grown after 4 months in the summer -

however these people have not been charged of anything - they are free to visit the tip twice a day if they want. Until the PLE get round to making a charge then that is the situation

 

[daffodil]

I am reading a lot of the threads at the moment open mouthed at the amount of - I must be careful with my words - mostly a lot of very harsh words against the Mccaans in who they are their whole beings as people

anyway I live in the UK - I am probably described as professional and I to go to the tip or the dump on a reasonable basis - we are not in the middle ages but we have very strict garbage disposable rules as the local council only pick up garbage in plastic bags - no garden waste , no heavy things etc - their garden must have been over grown after 4 months in the summer -

however these people have not been charged of anything - they are free to visit the tip twice a day if they want. Until the PLE get round to making a charge then that is the situation

:clap: :clap:

 

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

Quote:
Gerry: "I went to the dump to throw some things away. Even there, people came up and said: 'I hope everything works out all right for you'
So he's still taking stuff to the dump, huh. Any guesses on what it was, and did the police know about it?

Don't they have sanitation services in Leicestershire? Can't doctors on the government payroll afford to have their garbage picked up?

This is very strange.

I figured he was getting rid of Maddies bed, dresser, toys, and tricycle, and making room for a new command center.

 

[colomom]

I am reading a lot of the threads at the moment open mouthed at the amount of - I must be careful with my words - mostly a lot of very harsh words against the Mccaans in who they are their whole beings as people

anyway I live in the UK - I am probably described as professional and I to go to the tip or the dump on a reasonable basis - we are not in the middle ages but we have very strict garbage disposable rules as the local council only pick up garbage in plastic bags - no garden waste , no heavy things etc - their garden must have been over grown after 4 months in the summer -

however these people have not been charged of anything - they are free to visit the tip twice a day if they want. Until the PLE get round to making a charge then that is the situation

Gord,

I think some posters are "disturbed" by this reference to taking things to the dump because of the situation in Portugal. Remember? The McCanns said that the explanation for the DNA in the wheel well of the Scenic was due to the fact that they had to haul their garbage (rotting meat, used nappies, etc.) to the dump. We asked MoonGoddess about this and she showed us that a dump run for that type of garbage would not have been necessary since there were large bins for garbage collection scattered all around Praia da Luz. Therefore, the McCanns explanation became suspect.

So, to hear again about going to the dump is going to immediately make some people suspicious. And you are going to get the humor thrown in there as well.

I agree with you that there are alot of people on this forum that are angry with the McCanns for many, many reasons.

That is not going to change.

 

[colomom]

I figured he was getting rid of Maddies bed, dresser, toys, and tricycle, and making room for a new command center.

I find that a very sick and offensive statemnet - sorry but I had to say it

Made me giggle :angel:

Again Gord....an obvious reference to the recent giveaway of the toys that well-wishers had sent to Madeleine. And Gerry's seeming to be "obsessed" with being "in command".

Don't take it personally....