General Discussion Thread No. 16

[gord]

it is also interestin to see that Pennington although has been quoted as teh preson who heard they have taken her quote from Kate - could not have been the first person to hear her

Pennington was still in the creche at about 10.00 and heard of the commotion from a mother picking up her chilld saying that people were looking for a maddy

Kate was now apparently in hysterics and might have said that - but as we know she ran back to the Tapas initialy - so the first thing she would have said was to teh group / gerry

 

[Texana]

Tanner's testimony contradicts that of Jeremy Wilkins. Pick who's right or mistaken.

Personally, I don't think she's purposefully wrong. I think she saw someone, but I think she came to the conclusion later it must have been Madeleine being carried away. That is not the same thing as realizing it that night, and therefore, not necessarily true.

Again, what an eyewitness says they say, does not mean they actually saw that. Only that what they say, is what they believe they saw.

As for Nanny Pennington, she's just now come forward, which makes me wonder what little wheels Clarence Mitchell put in motion to get her story publicized. I would love to know what position Nanny Charlotte--oh wait, that does NOT sound appropriate--what career move Nanny Pennington will make after she has been paid for her interview (s). I'm going to be cynical and guess that Clarence has a good one lined up for her already.

But let's go ahead and grant that Nanny is truthful and tea ended "around" six. On the backside of the time window, take out the 10-15 minutes where Nanny says she heard a man shouting something like Abby or Maddie before 10:00.

I'll also keep the human witnesses in the loop if you keep in the dogs who alerted to the cadaver scent and DNA sample in the Renault Scenic.

 

[colomom]

One more about Charlotte (The Nanny):

http://trannyfattyacid.blogspot.com/2007/09/kate-mccann-crashes-as-collapse.html

"It should be pointed out that Ms Pennington arrived at the Praia de Luz resort on 28th April, the same day as the McCanns. She was transfered to a Mark Warner resort in Greece shortly after May 3rd. And was subsequently sacked after turning up late for work, following a night out. Which to me suggests that either Mark Warner has very draconian employment practices, or Ms Pennington was not the ideal employee and the night out was the final straw."

 

[gord]

Read about Charlotte Whatshername:

http://gazetadigitalmadeleineandthe.../charlotte-pennington-very-helpful-nanny.html

http://cuttingthroughtherubbish.blogspot.com/2007/09/charlotte-pennington-lying.html

There is more....but I need to make dinner....

the second one is an individual blog - which just hashes over the issue

the first one states that Pennington saw somone in teh harbour wearing a yellow jacket in a boat at 11.30 pm - could be - not sure where that is leading


Eye witnesses in any police investigation are worth their weight in gold - it cuts through an BS and puts people in a time and place - unless you think the witnesses are either lying or mistaken - that is up to the police to judge .

In this case we have two witnesses both giving some sort of statement - surely we must at least consider them ?

 

[Morag]

According to the CBS website, there will be an interview with the McCanns tomorrow morning on the Early Show.

The Early Show gets an exclusive interview with Gerry and Kate McCann tomorrow morning. CBS says this is the last interview the McCanns were allowed to grant under Portuguese law. The couple has been named suspects in the disappearance of their daughter, Madeleine.

 

[AquaEyes]

Thank you, Colomom, for telling me that I am not the only one who is confused by all of the witness/timing/sitting services/dinners and tea timelines that are mentioned!

I can completely understand why the McCann's would want a babysitter to come in while they were out. After dinner and a late night which involved healthy quantities of alcohol (never mind how many bottles), the last thing they would want to do is have to carry three sleeping children from a creche. Gerry would have to carry two and Kate carry one! Or would they make two trips? No, it was much easier to have a babysitter come in and send her off once you returned from the party.

So, my question is: what could be the possible reason for canceling the babysitter? It couldn't have been cost, or they wouldn't have scheduled it in the first place. It couldn't have been that they didn't like who the babysitter was. That could easily be changed to another sitter. Now, had they used a babysitter on other nights? I've heard that they consistently left the children alone. If that is so, why hire a babysitter for that night? But, really, why cancel? Did they decide to not go out for whatever reason, and then decide later on to go ahead and go out no matter what and it was too late to hire the babysitter again?

I am puzzling over this one.

 

[colomom]

the second one is an individual blog - which just hashes over the issue

~snip~

In this case we have two witnesses both giving some sort of statement - surely we must at least consider them ?

The blog...it is what it is.

I have considered the witnesses....and discarded them.

I do not believe either of them, in my opinion they are not credible.

 

[gord]

Tanner's testimony contradicts that of Jeremy Wilkins. Pick who's right or mistaken.

Personally, I don't think she's purposefully wrong. I think she saw someone, but I think she came to the conclusion later it must have been Madeleine being carried away. That is not the same thing as realizing it that night, and therefore, not necessarily true.

Again, what an eyewitness says they say, does not mean they actually saw that. Only that what they say, is what they believe they saw.

As for Nanny Pennington, she's just now come forward, which makes me wonder what little wheels Clarence Mitchell put in motion to get her story publicized. I would love to know what position Nanny Charlotte--oh wait, that does NOT sound appropriate--what career move Nanny Pennington will make after she has been paid for her interview (s). I'm going to be cynical and guess that Clarence has a good one lined up for her already.

But let's go ahead and grant that Nanny is truthful and tea ended "around" six. On the backside of the time window, take out the 10-15 minutes where Nanny says she heard a man shouting something like Abby or Maddie before 10:00.

I'll also keep the human witnesses in the loop if you keep in the dogs who alerted to the cadaver scent and DNA sample in the Renault Scenic.

come on please - you cant think that Cllarence Mitchek has asked the girl to concot a story ? I bet he has never even spoke to her

While we are on the subject of Clarence - he is a career PR man with good connections - he is getting paid a fair sum to help teh Mccaans - whilst I can well believe he will not be shy to adopt some spin - why on earth would he ever risk his carreer to break laws willfully obstructing an enquiry - is he that stupid -maybe

I have never doubted that the dogs found something nor that there was some sort of DNA found

Dogs cant be put on the stand and for the DNA we are ALL waiting to see excatly the amount / type strength of the DNA .

thanks for allowing the eye witness in though

 

[gord]

The blog...it is what it is.

I have considered the witnesses....and discarded them.

I do not believe either of them, in my opinion they are not credible.

ok that is your perogative - everyone is entitled to their opinion

 

[AlohaGal]

Texana, yes it is fascinating. Even in the Third World Country where I live (Trinidad and Tobago, Caribbean) people do not go to the dump just so...the garbage guys pick up everything (there is one truck that picks up trash and another that picks up tree branches, etc) People do not go to the dump at all. Even in my home country, Argentina, this is unheard.

To All:
Here in Hawaii, on the Big Island, we do not have county or city rubbish collectors! Maybe it's an island thing? It is very routine to make a dump run. I make a "run" every Sunday and am sure others with larger families may make more trips during the week. There are private "contractors" that can be hired to make regular pick ups but the transfer stations are so convenient we can "dump" on the way to work! Recycling centers are located at some of the stations which eases the recycling chores too.

http://www.hawaii-county.com/env_mng/ts/photos.htm

 

[gord]

One more about Charlotte (The Nanny):

http://trannyfattyacid.blogspot.com/2007/09/kate-mccann-crashes-as-collapse.html

"It should be pointed out that Ms Pennington arrived at the Praia de Luz resort on 28th April, the same day as the McCanns. She was transfered to a Mark Warner resort in Greece shortly after May 3rd. And was subsequently sacked after turning up late for work, following a night out. Which to me suggests that either Mark Warner has very draconian employment practices, or Ms Pennington was not the ideal employee and the night out was the final straw."

This was her third stint at working for warners - so she obviously was not that bad an nanny .

I do not know the reasons she finaly left /got sacked but if this ever gets to a court room she will have to give her satement under oath .

 

[gord]

To All:
Here in Hawaii, on the Big Island, we do not have county or city rubbish collectors! Maybe it's an island thing? It is very routine to make a dump run. I make a "run" every Sunday and am sure others with larger families may make more trips during the week. There are private "contractors" that can be hired to make regular pick ups but the transfer stations are so convenient we can "dump" on the way to work! Recycling centers are located at some of the stations which eases the recycling chores too.

http://www.hawaii-county.com/env_mng/ts/photos.htm

thanks - and in the spirit of cross cooperation on our dumps here is the link to the web cam on our local one - you might see me in th line on Sunday !!
http://www.bromley.gov.uk/environment/recycling/recyclingsites/Waldo_WebCams.htm

 

[Tuba]

Pamela Fenn did report the McCanns to OC management after the 75 min. Tues. night crying and calling out. Whether a babysitter had been used in the past or not, it makes sense that the McCanns would schedule one after The Ocean Club spoke to them and offered the three different sorts of baby minding available. Thank you for this information as I had not realised a sitter had been ordered & cancelled.

 

[colomom]

To All:
Here in Hawaii, on the Big Island, we do not have county or city rubbish collectors! Maybe it's an island thing? It is very routine to make a dump run. I make a "run" every Sunday and am sure others with larger families may make more trips during the week. There are private "contractors" that can be hired to make regular pick ups but the transfer stations are so convenient we can "dump" on the way to work! Recycling centers are located at some of the stations which eases the recycling chores too.

http://www.hawaii-county.com/env_mng/ts/photos.htm

Wow, I feel priviledged. I took a desk (4.5 ft. long by 2.5 ft. deep) out to the curb the other day and the garbage men just tossed it in the back of their truck. We might go to the dump twice a year....

 

[Pocono Sleuther]

First thing please, referring to the Ocean Club as a "hotel" could be misleading as it gives you the impression of a single building. The Ocean Club is a "resort" with apartment buildings spread out over a large area. That said, this blog (http://anmblog.typepad.com/this_is_money_blog/2007/05/my_experience_o.html) written by a visitor to the resort states:

"The McCanns’ choice to leave their children at the flat and make regular checks is surprising given the alternatives. In their defence, they may have been expecting, as advertised in Mark Warner brochures, a ‘listening service’. Staff told us that the service had been discontinued because the apartments were too spread out."



And further:

"The resort, however, offered a baby-sitting service for 15 euros (£10) an hour, which was staffed by a member of the daytime nursery teams, or a ‘dining out club’. This involved parents dropping off children at the crèche where they would be supervised watching videos until they went to sleep. Parents would then return before 11.30 to scoop up their sleepy offspring."

That seems like a reasonable alternative to leaving your child alone in an unlocked apartment. It has also been reported that the McCanns had "reserved" a babysitter for the evening (I assume it was one who came and stayed at the apartment) but they cancelled their reservation in the afternoon. :waitasec:

Plus:

http://www.markwarner.co.uk/why-choose-us/sun/tons-of-fun-for-kids#item7

states:

Baby-sitting (different than daytime creche or drop-in evening creche)
Extra baby-sitting can be arranged in resort through the Childcare Manager at €12 - €15 per hour. Please note there is a lot of demand for this service and whilst every effort is made to accommodate requests, this service is subject to limited staff availability and cannot be guaranteed. Please give at least 24 hours notice if you require this service.

Gives me the impression that the sitters that come to your room are Mark Warner Ocean Club staff.

Ok, so they clearly had other options, babysitting in resort could have easily been done with planning. So why did two 'intelligent' (using that term very loosely) parents leave three very young children alone. Again I will state it speaks volumes as to their lack of parenting skills. They make me :sick: . If this was an accident. Ok dial 911 and get help. I seriously believe they would have done that it if it had been a true accident. However, if it was something that made them appear negligent or even abusive then no way. IMO, they viewed Maddie as disposable. She was a busy and demanding child. Maybe not as well behaved as they'd have hoped. But again, this plays to their parenting skills.

 

[Pocono Sleuther]

No honestly - If I left any garden waste - even bagged it would be left by the bin men ( that is what they are called ) In my borough in London we get a pick up once a week - plastic and bottles and paper all seperated - the rest bagged - anything big - goes to the tip with me incliding my grass cuttings etc - You can pay extra to get a pick up in certain boroughs councils - but not most

It is a very english tradition to visit the dump. - My local dump even has a web cam so you can check the line an dsee how busy it is

Gord, I do appreciate you clearing this up. I admit I don't know anything about daily life in the UK and it is unfair of us to expect it to be like the US.
The webcam cracks me up!! I'm nosey so I'd probably spy on people's garbage dumping. LOL

 

[CaliKid]

Wow, I feel priviledged. I took a desk (4.5 ft. long by 2.5 ft. deep) out to the curb the other day and the garbage men just tossed it in the back of their truck. We might go to the dump twice a year....

Yes, you are lucky. Here in So. Cal we get trash, recyclables and lawn waste picked up every week. But we can't throw anything big or heavy away. For that you have to call the city, and they charge you $40 for a one-item pickup.

 

[SleuthMom]

To All:
Here in Hawaii, on the Big Island, we do not have county or city rubbish collectors! Maybe it's an island thing?

Well, I live in a island as well (Trinidad) just a little smaller in population than Hawaii and we have rubbish collectors as well as tree branches collectors. And mind you, the island itself is very dirty (rubbish everywhere)....don't get it.

 

[Texana]

come on please - you cant think that Cllarence Mitchek has asked the girl to concot a story ? I bet he has never even spoke to her

While we are on the subject of Clarence - he is a career PR man with good connections - he is getting paid a fair sum to help teh Mccaans - whilst I can well believe he will not be shy to adopt some spin - why on earth would he ever risk his carreer to break laws willfully obstructing an enquiry - is he that stupid -maybe

I have never doubted that the dogs found something nor that there was some sort of DNA found

Dogs cant be put on the stand and for the DNA we are ALL waiting to see excatly the amount / type strength of the DNA .

thanks for allowing the eye witness in though

Oh no, I absolutely do not think Clarence ever spoke directly to Nanny Charlotte. I think that Clarence picked up the phone, made a couple of phone calls along the lines of "Charlotte Pennington would be a very good source for a story or an interview, let me give you her number in case you are interested" and then whatever happened, happened.

I don't think Nanny Charlotte concocted a story at all. One can question her memory at this point in time, but I don't think she's purposefully lying. Like the other eyewitnesses, what she believes to be true, may not necessarily be so. And if it is, then her testimony also takes crucial time off the end "window" as well.

It is not obstructing an inquiry (American spelling now) to get a story from a witness--so what if the Portuguese authorities asked each and every witness not to talk to media, etc. Unless they plan on returning to Portugal, I'm sure some if not all take that with a big "so what" attitude. So again, Clarence is in the clear. I will guarantee you he that he does nothing for which he can be prosecuted, but if he pushes the envelope here and there, he's no better or worse than any other highly paid lobbyist, consultant, or manager.

If Charlotte has already been sacked from the Mark Warner resorts, I would not be surprised if a few phone calls along the the lines of "Charlotte Pennington would be a great nanny for you!" were not made by Mitchell's network.

It's not illegal, it's just networking, and Clarence would not be getting that nice salary if he could not pull off some decent networking.

Again, I don't doubt that the eyewitnesses think or believe they saw what they saw. It just doesn't mean that it's true. And of course, you'll have to allow in Jeremy Wilkins as well...who seemed more certain that he would have seen anyone else (pacing up and down as he was) than anyone else was about their testimony.

 

[ThoughtFox]

Yes, you are lucky. Here in So. Cal we get trash, recyclables and lawn waste picked up every week. But we can't throw anything big or heavy away. For that you have to call the city, and they charge you $40 for a one-item pickup.

Where I live people used to routinely take large objects to the dump, but then they moved the landfill further out in the country and closed the old one. So most people pay to have things hauled away. A local city has curbside trash pickup in different areas on different days of the week also, which is great.

It's not strange that Gerry went to the dump.

It's just really weird that he would mention it in an interview when he is Arquido in a murder case.

Perhaps he has read our comments about carrying garbage in his car, and he's trying to make the point that he even does that back home in Rothley? Just an ordinary day at the dump. It wouldn't surprise me if he said that on purpose to prove that in Portugal that "chicken bones and diapers fooled the sniffer dogs."

Many murder cases end at the town dump or the landfill - such as the Utah case when the insane husband murdered his wife and threw her into the dumpster, and they searched the dump for days until they found her.

But honestly - in most countries, doctors would not want to be seen near the local dump, for fear their patients would avoid them for sanitary reasons. This is just so whacko to me.