General Discussion Thread No. 17

[Pinkhammer]

From Paulo Reis:

Paulo Sargento told TV channel SIC that after the McCann arrived at the restaurant, almost every 5 minutes there was somebody leaving the table…going out to the apartments or coming from that direction – 7 persons went out 14 times in a period of two hours.The criminal expert considered the possibility of a kidnap as “not consistent” with so many regular checkings. “It will be very difficult, there was a very short period of time” available for a kidnapper to act, without being spotted, he said. The team is now working on another virtual scenario: a walk from Ocean Club to the church.

 

[Texana]

From Paulo Reis:

Paulo Sargento told TV channel SIC that after the McCann arrived at the restaurant, almost every 5 minutes there was somebody leaving the table…going out to the apartments or coming from that direction – 7 persons went out 14 times in a period of two hours.The criminal expert considered the possibility of a kidnap as “not consistent” with so many regular checkings. “It will be very difficult, there was a very short period of time” available for a kidnapper to act, without being spotted, he said. The team is now working on another virtual scenario: a walk from Ocean Club to the church.

A very tiny window of time, if any existed at all, and a very difficult scenario to imagine as Gerry first presented it: an abductor carrying a child out a window.

 

[Barnaby]

Barnaby,
There have been "samples" taken from several places, which may or may not be DNA
Source:Sep 6 http://www.correiomanha.pt/noticia.a...Canal=21&p=200

The CM knows that these vestiges – residues of not perceptible blood with the naked eye found in the apartment of the Ocean Club and in the car rented by the McCann – already are found in the possession of the PJ and should determine immediate developments of the case. ...snip...The most important samples, of the set of ten that were sent for England, should have been them collected in the apartment of the Mc-Cann in the Beach of the Light, in private in the ground and in a cupboard in home where subsequently the family was installed and in the car that rented after the girl have missing person. These samples were collected after the dogs pisteiros English will have signalled biological vestiges of blood and smell of corpse in clothes of Kate McCann.

Source:in Correio da Manha today (Aug 24):
As CM could further discover, at least one more organic residue was collected in the car of one of the family’s friends. It is unknown, in this case, whether it is a blood trace or some other residue, like saliva or even a blood stain

Source: http://www.correiodamanha.pt/noticia...dCanal=181&p=0
In that parking lot, in the fourth and last subterranean level, ten cars were analysed, which belong to Robert Murat, to family and friends and also to the McCanns themselves.

The last article does not say how many samples were taken from those cars

Thanks for that Pharm. The McCanns moved from the apartment where Madeleine was allegedly to another aoartment within the Mark Warner complex so I guess it could be the second apartment or the Villa.

I think this case is about to explode!

 

[Morag]

Sorry, no links, but my memory of things I've read over the last day or two:
Some evidence submitted for testing was collected by Leicestershire police.*
Mitchell first referred to whatever evidence 'has or has not been found' can be explained away by McCanns.
Later yesterday, he referred to evidence that was found in either England* or Portugal. Something must have been found in England that needs an innocent explanation. We did hear that the cadaver smell had been scented on something there...

 

[Barnaby]

I think it is getting past the stage of Mccann denials.
Especially if the reports of the children all being in the McCanns apartment now is true then we have definitive proof of lies on the parts of all of the Tapas 9!

 

[Texana]

This is the news already posted/linked, that the Portuguese police think that it's a strong possibility all the children were in the McCanns' apartment, based on the fact that the only apartment visited/checked was the McCanns--

I think it's interesting that Clarence doesn't really deny it--he says it's rubbish but the reason is "it's harder to get seven children to sleep." Not if they are sedated, is it?

If any of Tapas 9 told the Portuguese police that their children were in their own apartments and they were not, it will make them look guilty even if they are not involved.

http://www.postchronicle.com/news/breakingnews/article_212108126.shtml
The article is actually quoting the Times article.

 

[Barnaby]

I have thought all along that O'Brien & Tanner are in the frame!

 

[Juliana]

Pure speculation:hand: If one of the other children accidentally killed Madeleine, that might explain the suspected pact of silence on the part of the Tapas 9.

imo

 

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

I just heard this on Fox News. WOW, if this is really true, and they have PROOF, someone will talk...soon. Especially if immunity if offered to one of them.

 

[teddiebear1955]

ok ...now we have all the kids in one room and all the parents are going thru that room checking and taking kids to their rooms ...right????????
awwwwww now come on ...why all these months of lies
:banghead:

 

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

Pure speculation:hand: If one of the other children accidentally killed Madeleine, that might explain the suspected pact of silence on the part of the Tapas 9.

imo

I have had been in a SUPERVISED room of 2-4 year olds, and even with a watchful eye, there have been a few painful accidents. I can't imagine giving them a free for all...even if they where doped.

 

[Barnaby]

Pure speculation:hand: If one of the other children accidentally killed Madeleine, that might explain the suspected pact of silence on the part of the Tapas 9.

imo

I don't think so, if someone elses kid killed my kid there is no way on earth that I would go through this charade! Also I would be heartbroken, this theory does not account for their coldness!

 

[ThoughtFox]

New story:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article2625572.ece

Leicestershire Constabulary, which is co-ordinating the investigation in Britain, was officially asked by the Portuguese authorities last month to help. In a letter obtained by The Times, Detective Superintendent Stuart Prior tells the tourists: “I have now been asked by the Portuguese investigation team to arrange for DNA samples and fingerprints to be taken from holidaymakers living in the UK who were staying at the Ocean Club Resort.”

He wrote that the DNA and fingerprints “will help the Portuguese police to eliminate samples they have taken and not yet been able to identify”. The tourists are also being asked about the use of their mobile phones and for details of their movements and clothing the evening that Madeleine disappeared.The DNA samples will be analysed by the Forensic Science Service in Birmingham, which has carried out tests on material recovered from Ocean Club flats and several vehicles, including the McCanns’ hire car.

 

[Juliana]

I don't think so, if someone elses kid killed my kid there is no way on earth that I would go through this charade! Also I would be heartbroken, this theory does not account for their coldness!

I see your point - but if they all felt guilty for leaving the kids alone in the first place, especially if the McCanns had been warned about it by the resort staff, then the McCanns might have been afraid of being charged with neglect (I mean come on, who leaves a 3 year old alone, much less the younger twins) and they might have been afraid of having the twins taken away.

I'm just speculating, trying to think of a scenario which would cause all of the Tapas 9 to feel somewhat responsible .

imo

 

[Barnaby]

I see your point - but if they all felt guilty for leaving the kids alone in the first place, especially if the McCanns had been warned about it by the resort staff, then the McCanns might have been afraid of being charged with neglect (I mean come on, who leaves a 3 year old alone, much less the younger twins) and they might have been afraid of having the twins taken away.

I'm just speculating, trying to think of a scenario which would cause all of the Tapas 9 to feel somewhat responsible .

imo

mmmm dunno Juliana, it would take one heck of a lot of quick planning, people in shock over something they were not responsible for are usually shocked & confused! Also it is easier for adults to keep quiet than kids!

 

[Juliana]

mmmm dunno Juliana, it would take one heck of a lot of quick planning, people in shock over something they were not responsible for are usually shocked & confused! Also it is easier for adults to keep quiet than kids!

All true! I just can't wrap my brain around this. Guess that's a good thing!

 

[Barnaby]

All true! I just can't wrap my brain around this. Guess that's a good thing!

Yes I know, it is just so full of contradictions, we may never know what really happened but I have a sneaking suspicion that someone will crack & soon! My bet is on O'Brien or Tanner!

 

[Tuba]

October 9 Times of London reports on not just one residue but many instances of it in 5A, that cannot be identified to the McCann family so that the suspicion is returning to a kidnapper as the reason for Madeleine's disappearance. This would not make sense if the traces were just collected but they have been known for some time. Since 5A wasn't sealed and was re-let, there is now a lot of new DNA in the flat. The dinner party members will now be submitting their own DNA, clothing and phone use. There is mobile information that has not been sourced & it came from the bldg.

 

[Texana]

October 9 Times of London reports on not just one residue but many instances of it in 5A, that cannot be identified to the McCann family so that the suspicion is returning to a kidnapper as the reason for Madeleine's disappearance. This would not make sense if the traces were just collected but they have been known for some time. Since 5A wasn't sealed and was re-let, there is now a lot of new DNA in the flat. The dinner party members will now be submitting their own DNA, clothing and phone use. There is mobile information that has not been sourced & it came from the bldg.

Tuba, a kidnapper would not necessarily leave DNA anyway. Unless there was some kind of bodily fluid left behind--saliva, semen, blood, sweat--there's not going to be DNA from a kidnapper. Absence or presence of "other" DNA doesn't prove or disprove an abductor.

Presence of Madeleine's DNA, on the other hand, in places such as a car trunk or an apartment where she was not in residence, is much more significant.

 

[Morag]

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co...67_mccanns_finally_meet_portugese_police.html

DNA has also been taken from the McCanns, their children and 12 other people in their group who travelled from the UK to Portugal.

This story was printed just before the McCanns left the Algarve on a private jet to go to Germany.