General Discussion Thread No. 17

[gord]

If it's the villa, no Madeleine didn't live there. That's where her parents moved after leaving the resort.

ok fine -if they have found 100% blood , hair fragments and DNA in the villa that they moved to then it needs to be truly investigated - what state - post mortem , fragments , trace what .......... we need to know

 

[Barnaby]

I don't think the DNA was found in the villa, surely it was the apartment?

 

[Texana]

Spin is right, Thoughtfox.

But more importantly, look at the change in the story--Now they are saying Madeleine was taken via the front door.

This is a huge and significant change in Gerry's account. Remember, the window shutters being open and "tampered with" from the inside was one of the two immediate and obvious reasons Kate knew right away Madeleine had been taken--the position of the shutters, and Cuddle Cat.

The shutters were not open when Gerry made his rounds at around 9:30. Nor were they noticed open by Matthew Oldfied, who came by shortly before Gerry.

Gerry says that the kidnapper must have come in through the front door and been hiding in the second room--the bedroom--and he bases this on the door being ajar slightly.

When Kate comes at 10:05, the shutters are open and Kate immediately deduces (along with the position of the toy) that an intruder/abductor has taken Madeleine.

If the kidnapper had come in through and left through the front door, why would the window shutters be open at all? And why would the door be open to the bedroom from the other room, if the kidnapper did NOT come via the front door and have to beat a hasty retreat to hide in the bedroom area where the children are sleeping?

 

[Texana]

I don't think the DNA was found in the villa, surely it was the apartment?

Reportedly also found in the villa, in a place "it should not have been" although that could also refer to the boot of the Renault Scenic.

 

[Barnaby]

Reportedly also found in the villa, in a place "it should not have been" although that could also refer to the boot of the Renault Scenic.

Oh my goodness I didn't know that! That would be very damning indeed Tex!

 

[Barnaby]

I have checked Tex but all articles that I am reading say the DNA came from the apartment & the car. Can you post a link to where it says the villa? TIA!

 

[Texana]

You'd have to go through the dozens of articles from both Portuguese and British press from around the time the DNA was leaked/announced. It's never (of course) been officially announced by the PJ, and the McCanns responded only to the DNA sample in the Renault Scenic.

It's definitely one of the items to take with a grain of salt.

Okay, I'll save some of you the time and effort to respond--Take everything with a grain of salt.

And a margarita!

(the last one was just me.:crazy: )

 

[ThoughtFox]

Texana and Barnaby: It's been reported more than once that a search was done at the "villa" - the problem is that in some articles, the original apartment is referred to as a "villa" also. :waitasec: So it's confusing. But they were living in a different place just before leaving Portugal, and to me, that is the villa and is significant because Madeleine never lived there.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/multimedia/pa/article262765.ece

British police teams tested the McCanns’ Algarve holiday villa three months after Maddie vanished and after the property had been rented out to another family.

Blood, hair and fibre samples were sent to a Birmingham lab and tested for Maddie’s DNA. They were also compared with that of possible suspects.

A source close to the investigation revealed some results had been passed on to Leicestershire police to give to Portuguese detectives.

http://www.independent.ie/breaking-...n-reports-of-madeleine-dna-match-1075926.html

Officers were poised to search the villa that the McCanns had been renting for the past three months, and which they vacated on Sunday when they flew back to Britain for the first time since Madeleine's disappearance.

 

[ThoughtFox]

Leak from the Lab?

http://www.metro.co.uk/news/article.html?in_article_id=69254&in_page_id=34&ito=newsnow

Results at the Forensic Science Service laboratory in Birmingham back up earlier findings which led to the couple being named as official suspects, it was reported.

A source said new evidence showed the investigation was focused 'where it should be'.

...The source said: 'There is no reason to change the direction of the investigation and everything that has emerged indicates that it is focusing where it should.

 

[gord]

Leak from the Lab?

http://www.metro.co.uk/news/article.html?in_article_id=69254&in_page_id=34&ito=newsnow

This lab is one of the best in the business - it prides itself on the cutting edge work it does for Police forces across the world in DNA analysis , mostly in highly sensitive cases - that are sub judice.

I just cant see them leaking anything - especially to tabloid journalists - this would undermine everything they do and put at risk any criminal case they work on if it were found they were leaking test results

The metro is part of the chain that includes the Mail , this is London and the Standard that has being putting out a raft of conlicting articles in the past few weeks - especialy the past few days - In some instance the Mail does a piece that is opposite of a piecs in the Standard that night -

 

[Texana]

Thanks Thoughtfox!

 

[Morag]

If true, this changes everything. It explains the random leaving the table to check on the kids- each couple was removing their children from the McCann apartment. And if this is true, it means that they mostly knew Madeleine had died or was in extremis at some point. What they probably didn't know was how it was going to play out.


http://timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article2621809.ece

However, a source within the investigation was quoted by 24 Horas as saying: “It’s not only the collected evidence that points to the fact that there were more children inside that [the McCanns'] apartment.

“Evidence also exists, following the interrogations to the other people who that were at the Ocean Club, that only the McCanns’ apartment was visited by the people who attended the dinner.”

Mr O’Brien’s partner, Jane Tanner, told police that she had seen a man carrying a girl away from the McCanns’ apartment at 9.15pm. However, another witness has insisted that she was not in the area at that time.
A source within the PJ is quoted by 24 Horas as saying: “In face of so many contradictions and in face of the forensics results that we already hold, we have very few doubts that the girl died inside that apartment, and we only have doubts about who concealed the corpse.”

 

[Squishified]

Very interesting, Morag.

 

[PharmSleuth]

I have checked Tex but all articles that I am reading say the DNA came from the apartment & the car. Can you post a link to where it says the villa? TIA!

Barnaby,
There have been "samples" taken from several places, which may or may not be DNA
Source:Sep 6 http://www.correiomanha.pt/noticia.a...Canal=21&p=200

The CM knows that these vestiges – residues of not perceptible blood with the naked eye found in the apartment of the Ocean Club and in the car rented by the McCann – already are found in the possession of the PJ and should determine immediate developments of the case. ...snip...The most important samples, of the set of ten that were sent for England, should have been them collected in the apartment of the Mc-Cann in the Beach of the Light, in private in the ground and in a cupboard in home where subsequently the family was installed and in the car that rented after the girl have missing person. These samples were collected after the dogs pisteiros English will have signalled biological vestiges of blood and smell of corpse in clothes of Kate McCann. [FONT=&quot]

[/FONT] Source:in Correio da Manha today (Aug 24):
As CM could further discover, at least one more organic residue was collected in the car of one of the family’s friends. It is unknown, in this case, whether it is a blood trace or some other residue, like saliva or even a blood stain

Source: http://www.correiodamanha.pt/noticia...dCanal=181&p=0
In that parking lot, in the fourth and last subterranean level, ten cars were analysed, which belong to Robert Murat, to family and friends and also to the McCanns themselves.

The last article does not say how many samples were taken from those cars

 

[ceeaura]

I just wish that all these newspapers would stop it.If they have nothing to report then don't report anything.All of these "They are innocent" spin,spin,spin and then the other "investigation is focused where it needs to be" spin,spin,spin just to sell papers is crap.

This should be about Madeleine.About finding her and what happened to her.Not make us ,the public go crazy with all this back and forth stuff.There are so many people.So many, who really want the truth and nothing but the truth about this little girl to be said.Fence sitters,Guilty and Not Guilty people all have one very important thing in common and that is worry and heartache for a sweet beautiful little girl.

:silenced: ok off my rant now

OT : Squishified,my 13 yearold son just saw your pictures of your dogs and he just loves them.Now I am being nagged "when can I get that kinda dog mommmmm????":bang:

 

[Squishified]

ceeaura
Your son has good taste! I only wanted one chihuahua to begin with and now I have 3. I am a glutton for punishment.

 

[ThoughtFox]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/10/09/nmaddy209.xml

New search at Madeleine McCann apartment
By Aislinn Simpson in Praia da Luz
Last Updated: 5:41pm BST 09/10/2007

Detectives have launched new searches at the apartment where Madeleine McCann disappeared - returning to the scene for first time since late July.

Seven Portuguese officers entered the house at 7am today and remained inside until the early afternoon as they continued to attempt to build a case against official suspects Kate and Gerry McCann.

Also in that same article a statement from Clarence Mitchell about other children supposedly staying in the apartment:

None of the McCann's friends were available for comment but Mr Mitchell dismissed the claims as "utter rubbish", saying only Madeleine and her two-year-old twin siblings Sean and Amelie slept there.

"If you put seven children together, you're going to have a far harder time getting them to sleep than three," he said

But what if they weren't all asleep, Clarence? What if they got rowdy and Maddie got hurt or fell? What if the older kids were supposed to watch the younger, and it didn't work out that way?

I can think of lots of scenarios if any of that is true.

But also, it might explain why other parents were "checking" the McCann apartment.

Do we know the ages of any of the other children in the Tapas group? Or is that a great unknown?

 

[Pinkhammer]

Just judging from that video of the group on the tram, the children all appeared to be Maddie's age or younger. All babies, really.

I read on a blog that Jane Tanner's baby was also conceived by in vitro, and at the same place Kate went to. Is this true? If so, what's wrong with all those guys in the Tapas Group?

 

[Texana]

So the only place checked was the McCann apartment...

Doesn't that make for some interesting conclusions?

 

[ThoughtFox]

The article also mentions searches at the beach, but I didn't quote that part. However, that seems to be a valid article from a reporter actually in Portugal, and with the statement from Mitchell, I think they may be hitting close to the mark.