General Discussion Thread No. 17

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Hello AfterMidnight.....

I had to laugh when I read the above. My first thought is that you must not have young children.

When I was in my 20's and childless, the description of a "party" might have applied.

Now that I have young children....a bottle of wine and a good DVD on the bigscreen is a "party" to me.

As a parent, when you decide to bring children into the world, you accept that the partying will have to wait for about 16 years, or so, so that you can remain sober, vigilant, responsible, etc. for those vulnerable little lives that you agreed to care for.

The point being, if you have young children, you do everything within your power to protect them. You take every precaution and make sacrifices without question. You never, ever, leave them alone in a un-childproofed room/apartment, in a foreign country, with the door unlocked, out of earshot (without a monitor) to go "socialize" with other parents who are doing the same thing.

That's child neglect, child endangerment and if anything happens, child abuse, or worse....

No matter what....the McCann's are guilty as sin of failing to protect Madeleine.

No, I don't have young children, but I am the mother of 6 and grandmother of 14. I know a lot about partying in all of its guises and all my kiddies are still alive so I must have done something right. Believe it or not. It sounds so silly when I get lessons on child care. There are more ways than one, apparently, to raise a child. If, as I've read elsewhere, baby monitors, etc., were a common practice in some upscale resorts, I MAY have done that if everyone else was. I MAY have been led to believe the whole thing was SAFE, but I've never been in that position. With 6 kids you don't do a lot of upscale anything unless you have oodles of money and I didn't. However, I cannot condemn those who do, and that still doesn't make me an unfit parent. Honest to God, I know how to feed a baby, change a diaper, take the kids to the park, and deal with things many parents haven't had to face. Parenthood isn't as cut and dried as many would like to believe. I'm not wishing a wake-up call on anyone, but "never say never" 'cause ya just don't know.
 
The bolding is mine. I believe the McCanns and friends had wine with their dinner. When I think of partying I see dancing, drinking, perhaps drugs, an all-nighter, and perhaps loose sex. All I see here is wine with dinner. I believe it may be a common practice and I've even been guilty of it myself.

Nowhere in my post did I say or imply the Mccanns were dancing, doing drugs having an all-nighter or participating in loose sex. I said they went out drinking and partying with friends. I wil stand by that description of what went on the night of May 3...as well as the nights leading up to May 3.

I feel as though there's an attempt to vilify me for having a strong conviction that it wasn't good parenting to leave Madeleine and her twin siblings alone to fend for themselves.

Frankly, I can't understand how anyone would expect to discuss this case and NOT take those actions of the Mccanns into the consideration. Are we just to assume they are perfect victims and completely gloss over any perceived actions they have taken that might cast the tiniest bit of suspicion their way????
 
No, I don't have young children, but I am the mother of 6 and grandmother of 14. I know a lot about partying in all of its guises and all my kiddies are still alive so I must have done something right. Believe it or not. It sounds so silly when I get lessons on child care. There are more ways than one, apparently, to raise a child. If, as I've read elsewhere, baby monitors, etc., were a common practice in some upscale resorts, I MAY have done that if everyone else was. I MAY have been led to believe the whole thing was SAFE, but I've never been in that position. With 6 kids you don't do a lot of upscale anything unless you have oodles of money and I didn't. However, I cannot condemn those who do, and that still doesn't make me an unfit parent. Honest to God, I know how to feed a baby, change a diaper, take the kids to the park, and deal with things many parents haven't had to face. Parenthood isn't as cut and dried as many would like to believe. I'm not wishing a wake-up call on anyone, but "never say never" 'cause ya just don't know.

Please forgive me if I came across as trying to give you parenting lessons. Definitely, not my intention.

I can tell that you understand the main point I was trying to make. While it is true that you can never say never (I agree, absolutely) but you can try to make that commitment that you know would be prudent.

We could all stop talking about the poor parenting the McCann's exhibited and we would still have plenty to discuss. The initial neglect is just the tip of the iceberg.

It appears to me that the back and forth about the children being left alone is due to the fact that it is the one thing that we can be sure really happened. Those of us that feel the McCanns may be directly involved in Maddie's dissapearance will always come back to the initial error that we feel is the ultimate reason why she is missing.

Those that feel the McCanns are entirely victims will try to argue that the children being left alone is understandable and forgivable. In doing so they will remove the only thing we can all agree should never have been done. By removing that discussion then the McCann supporters will argue that everything else is rumor, conjecture, speculation, smears, slurs, etc. and can be immediately dismissed.

So, sure it gets old, the back and forth, same old argument BUT until something breaks, it will probably be the discusion we see most often. If this aspect of the case makes you angry maybe avoiding that particular topic would be in order? Simply do not engage in discussions about the children being left alone that night. Only respond to arguments/discussions that feel are relevant to you. You do not have to respond to every post...you have the right to ignore....if you want.

I, for one, appreciate you AM. I want very much for someone to convince me that the McCanns are entirely innocent in all of this. I hate feeling that they may have had something to do with her dissapearance. You may be the one who can present an argument that makes me think or question my instincts. So, please, keep trying.
 
Why is it so hard to believe someone might have been hungry and wanted something to eat?

Gerry might have wanted a quick snack as he might have missed lunch and didn't want to wait until 9 pm to have dinner.
There are a million possibilities as to why Gerry felt like eating at 6 30pm even though he was planning on having dinner at 9pm.

Instant gratification. That sums up Gerry McCann in two words.
 
And if he hadn't eaten, or wanted to eat, or was said to have eaten at 6:30, that would have been MORE suspicious. You need to understand this is the McCanns we're talking about here and they left their children alone and Madeleine's gone, and that's the only reason people are forced to turn on their computers and post here. I'll betcha those McCanns even use the wrong brand of toilet paper.

We all know what kind of people get "the munchies."
 
Well said AfterMidnight. :clap: :clap: :clap:
Just when you think it can't get any more ridiculious....It does. :doh:

I'm sure they use the right kind of toilet paper...whenever they can find their arses without a map and a flashlight. :dance:
 
Why is it so hard to believe someone might have been hungry and wanted something to eat?

Gerry might have wanted a quick snack as he might have missed lunch and didn't want to wait until 9 pm to have dinner.
There are a million possibilities as to why Gerry felt like eating at 6 30pm even though he was planning on having dinner at 9pm.

Actually I believe THIS is the smoking gun that will crack the case. Gerry ate his dinner early because he KNEW he wasn't going to be eating later. He had his friend check on Kate, because this was prearranged with Kate IMO. The visit was Kates signal to begin the next Phase of the plan.
 
Actually I believe THIS is the smoking gun that will crack the case. Gerry ate his dinner early because he KNEW he wasn't going to be eating later. He had his friend check on Kate, because this was prearranged with Kate IMO. The visit was Kates signal to begin the next Phase of the plan.

You could be right Interestedwoman, it does seem strange that he went off to eat on his own when he would be having a meal not long after. I can't imagine eating after 6.30pm if I had dinner plans.
 
Are you attributing a motive to the parents for this alleged premeditated murder? Even Amaral never suggested deliberate homicide. We have partial composites of human beings as presented and often misrepresented by the media and we have the human mechanism of projection operating here. There have been so many false blaring headlines, two of the most recent being "I don't get sympathy because I'm 'hot'!" and Gerry's fears for Kate (while he played tennis). The "fears" were nowhere in evidence but gratuitously supplied by the newspapers for sensational value. According to the party in question, witness David Payne, he only suggested looking in on Kate if he was going by 5A.
 
Are you attributing a motive to the parents for this alleged premeditated murder? Even Amaral never suggested deliberate homicide. We have partial composites of human beings as presented and often misrepresented by the media and we have the human mechanism of projection operating here. There have been so many false blaring headlines, two of the most recent being "I don't get sympathy because I'm 'hot'!" and Gerry's fears for Kate (while he played tennis). The "fears" were nowhere in evidence but gratuitously supplied by the newspapers for sensational value. According to the party in question, witness David Payne, he only suggested looking in on Kate if he was going by 5A.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/li...tml?in_article_id=488273&in_page_id=1770&ct=5
Actually the party in question was never quoted in saying this, it was a "source" who said he said it. Here is an excerpt: Notice the bold print:


The source said: "David Payne saw Madeleine at around 6.30pm.


"He popped in because Gerry wanted to make sure Kate was OK. Gerry was playing tennis and David said he was going past.

"I expect it was said [by Gerry] as: 'If you are heading back that way, stick your head in and see if Kate is all right'.

The exchange between Mr Payne and Mr McCann had fuelled Portuguese suspicions about Mrs McCann's frame of mind on the day Madeleine disappeared.


The "source" only speculated what Gerry might have said.
 
There are further quotes in various articles on this, from the source about what David Payne is revealing despite secrecy laws. The source talks about Payne's description of what he saw in 5A and his opinion of Kate's parenting. It is hearsay, some of it supposedly Payne's own utterances but my point was that FEAR was never a component of this story. Nevertheless, the newspapers arbitrarily added that.
 
Are you attributing a motive to the parents for this alleged premeditated murder? Even Amaral never suggested deliberate homicide. snip....

Yes, I am. I believe they had more than one motive, but the ultimate, (Which I have posted many times) being that I think Madeline had less than perfect, non-curable, developmental disabilities. I believe she didn't "fit" their lifestyle and they believed she would be, "better off with the angles". I think in their minds they thought of it more as "Doctor assisted suicide" rather than murder.

Also, more from the Payne artical at: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/li...tml?in_article_id=488273&in_page_id=1770&ct=5

Mr Payne is understood to have told police he found Mrs McCann happily coping with her three children, including Madeleine.
Coping (psychology) is the process of managing taxing circumstances, expending effort to solve personal and interpersonal problems, and seeking to master, minimize, reduce or tolerate stress or conflict.

Can ANYONE tell me how someone could be happily coping? :liar: Is that anything like a joyful accident?
 
Sometimes people dont consult a dictionary before they speak to make sure they are using the right word-at least I dont! I am sure if ever I were in a criminal situation I would be hung drawn and quartered for my assault of the English language!!!
 
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