General Discussions #5

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anneshirley said:
True...and to be honest, I mainly asked him what would happen if someone were stabbed IN THE CHEST. (there have been UNCONFIRMED reports that she might have been stabbed in the chest).
I wouldn't doubt it if those large quantities of blood came from the struggle of being stabbed. imo
I thought it was confirmed that she was stabbed in the chest? What is unconfirmed is how many times she was stabbed. I guess I'll have to go look this up if no one else remembers this.
 
ewwwinteresting said:
I thought it was confirmed that she was stabbed in the chest? What is unconfirmed is how many times she was stabbed. I guess I'll have to go look this up if no one else remembers this.
Posted under the Crime Scene Information
golfmom said:
Information from the search warrant:

Search warrant issued: 4/27/05 3:15 a.m.
Search warrant executed: 4/27/05 5:45 a.m.

Application for search warrant:
On April 26, 2005 at 10:58 p.m. uniform patrol officers responded to 2606 Ferrand Drive in reference to a gun shot wound. At 11:50 p.m. I, WL Early, arrived at the above location. At 11:55pm I spoke with Off. Jason Williams on car #221, who advised that he had received the call to this location in reference to a gun shot wound. Off. Williams advised this investigator that when he arrived at the scene, he spoke with a Mr. Raven Abaroa, who advised that his wife was upstairs,, and that she was hurt. Off. Williams entered the residence, and observed a white female in a upstairs bedroom, laying on her back, with what appeared to be a stab wound to her chest.
On April 27, 2005 at 12:13 a.m. I, Inv. Early entered the residence and I observed in a upstairs bedroom, the body of a white female laying on her back, with what appeared to be a stab wound to her chest. There was a large amount of blood near the body, there was stains on the walls of the bedroom, and there was blood stains near the side door of the residence, located on the South side.
At approximately 12:25am, I departed the residence.
Sounds like there was a wound in the chest, but maybe it wasn't the fatal wound?
 
....nothing too news-worthy...but i remember we were all discussing the shoes mr.A. took the pics of on the house veranda/porch...

...this post of raven's merely confirms his shoe size...

...( a week or so ago, a search was easy to confirm..... info already posted...NOW.....my god.....leave here for the afternoon and come back to an hour of reading...........)

...it's quite wonderful....i'd hate for janet to become a cold case.....

...and on that note........mr.A'....blog update:..............."raven was using his mother's address as well in the embezzlement"......!!!!!!!........wow! that was the last entry i reead as i left earlier today............( and i thought i'd missed something along the way...)

...for him to be using her as an accomplice in jan.2005, things had to have been going very well between them in the last few months at the very least.....

...as someone pointed out much earlier.....( TOL i believe.......)
payments:....the ducati....the acura....the jeep...the VX... the dodge durango
..not to mention a persons NORMAL monthly expenses....

...raven would have had to be making an amazing amout of $$$'s to keep afloat each month....( on vehicle payments alone!)

...anyone else speculate that the "mere $9K" embezzled from eurosport wasn't the only shady dealings he may have been involved in?"

03/21/2004, 01:57 PM
NC_VX
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Super VXer
99, Ironman VX, 1455
Chapel Hill, NC US
Member Since: Jun 2003
Posts: 200
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Yeah, make sure they get it too perfection.....

Sorry about the bad luck. Funny thing, I've accidently hit the brake and accelerator a dozen times and I don't have aftermarket pedals. The problem is the two are just so close together. I wear a size 10 shoe, wonder what the mechanic wears, and if he had steel toe work boots on it oculd have been even harder to see under there....

Good News is, it was at your dealer, not at some shop who would really have a problem repairing it...

Have Fun Skiing and Good Luck!
__________________
-The Rave-
North Carolina
 
See what happens if you leave... :) A couple of little corrections since you probably haven't read everything here:

lauriej said:
....nothing too news-worthy...but i remember we were all discussing the shoes mr.A. took the pics of on the house veranda/porch...

NCBanker was the actual one to take pictures of the shoes and house and post them here.

...and on that note........mr.A'....blog update:..............."raven was using his mother's address as well in the embezzlement"......!!!!!!!........wow! that was the last entry i reead as i left earlier today............( and i thought i'd missed something along the way...)

...for him to be using her as an accomplice in jan.2005, things had to have been going very well between them in the last few months at the very least.....

At this point, Mr. A. stated we don't know for sure if Raven's mother was aware that she was being used. Of course, we can speculate....

...as someone pointed out much earlier.....( TOL i believe.......)
payments:....the ducati....the acura....the jeep...the VX... the dodge durango
..not to mention a persons NORMAL monthly expenses....

...raven would have had to be making an amazing amout of $$$'s to keep afloat each month....( on vehicle payments alone!)

...anyone else speculate that the "mere $9K" embezzled from eurosport wasn't the only shady dealings he may have been involved in?"

Exactly........he's had these toys for years, why pick 2004 to embezzle money (when both of them had pretty good jobs)?
 
Timex said:
It sounded angry to me. And again, because of all the things that have been mentioned and posted here...only ONE has actually brought the family to respond. And then they responded to someone that hosts an "anti-Raven" site. Now if they didnt feel raven was involved, why would their point of contact be someone that is so obviously convinced of Ravens guilt?
Timex, I do not run an "Anti-Raven" site, and I do not appreciate the characterization.

I have written 168 entries in my weblog. Of those, 159 do not have anything to do with this case.

I am on the victims side and make no bones about it -- the responses I receive from families makes it worthwhile. Families like Jenn Corbin's -- the Barbers -- like Leslie Beebe's family, Audrey Herron's webmaster, Adrianne Reynolds' family and friends... these are the people who are hurting, and sometimes if they don't have the voice I have apparently provided some of them with a feeling that they do -- at least until they gain their own. I've written about all those cases, but my site is no more an "anti-Raven" site than it is an "anti-Bart Corbin," or "anti-Sarah Kolb" site.

No, I don't hide my suspicion of Raven -- but I always admit that police have neither fingered him nor ruled him out. My suspicion is based on distinct patterns of behavior as evidenced by his numerous available webpages and the circumstances surrounding the death of his wife. He systematically eliminated Janet from his online representations of himself. He left her. The vast majority of his online writing is solely concerned with Raven -- not his family, not his buds, not his wife. He describes himself as aggressive; numerous people who have written me or made a comment on my site agree -- too many from too many different IP numbers for it to be a myth. He is obsessed with the material and the with status and appearances. He is accused of one crime already. No, none of that says he killed his wife in and of itself. The overall portrait he presents to my eyes though is familiar, and taken with the law enforcement admission that the crime was not random I can't help but maintain a focus on him as the most obvious person who would make it a point to kill Janet.

That said, my most important point is this; I ask you respectfully to not demean or minimize something that is a labor of love and time for me, which is what your comment about my 'blog being "anti-Raven" did. I started to enumerate the various crimes I've covered in the blog as a whole and realized my post would be too long; there are too many. I don't believe I'd have over 1,000 readers a day and have a top-250 ranked weblog internet-wide if all I did was write things that were "anti-Raven." One unfortunate aspect of this case is it's overall lack of press coverage -- whether he likes it or not, very few people still know who Mr. Abaroa is -- an "anti-Raven" blog would not bring many readers my way.

I may not be the most fair-minded poster for your taste, but I do try my best to obey the TOS and do my best to not post at all if I think I might be in violation. It took me quite some time tonight to figure out the best way to tell you that I was offended, and tell you why. I contemplated not participating all together, but wise words from someone convinced me that would be defeating my purpose in starting the first thread that ended up being this group of threads and committed posters.

I do understand your aim is fairness, Timex. That makes total sense to me. It's necessary on an internet message board too, as these are legendary for the pile-on mentality that can develop. But, you may have unintentionally mis-characterized the nature of my blog, and I wasn't going to be comfortable participating here until I said something.
 
Timex said:
So who would you chose to speak for you if you didnt feel your SIL was guilty? Someone that obvioulsy DOES feel he guilty? The choice of spokeperson reveals their feelings IMO.
but i thought we can't speak for each other?? If one poster such as golf mom or I choose to post what someone told us in a pm, how is that different from some poster who was "claiming" that they know Janet's family and was speaking for them?

If your daugher was murdered, would you want anyone speaking for you telling what you thought and how you felt without your permission? I have to say that i wouldn't.
 
I too feel as if I’ve been offended and targeted unfairly. I have posted enormous amounts on alternative theories and possibly exculpatory information. And the insinuation that I made my decision solely on supposed inside information is upsetting to me. I took my time and have invested over 100 hours. If you don’t like my conclusion fine, but all that supposed insider stuff is right here on the boards. If you don’t want to consider that information as reliable, of course that is your right. But to ridicule or dismiss me because I do is not.

I feel now as if the only thing I’m legitimately able to sleuth now is news. Any theory, idea or information will be dismissed or belittled. Interesting, I am now in the position of the people I tried to help and am becoming increasingly afraid to post.
 
Timex said:
But then how would we explain the blood on the walls etc? I assumed it was flyback.
That's got me thinking. If it was flyback, could we really only be looking at 3 stab wounds, (hand, shoulder, chest)? If the other two were defensive wounds, and only one was fatal, how would we get flyback to the point that we have heard that there was a lot of blood on the walls? And there was also blood on the back door. So I'm beginning to think that the statement about there only being 3 stab wounds is incorrect.
 
JerseyGirl said:
That's got me thinking. If it was flyback, could we really only be looking at 3 stab wounds, (hand, shoulder, chest)? If the other two were defensive wounds, and only one was fatal, how would we get flyback to the point that we have heard that there was a lot of blood on the walls? And there was also blood on the back door. So I'm beginning to think that the statement about there only being 3 stab wounds is incorrect.
I know that we were passing the idea around that the chest was the last wound inflicted. Maybe it wasn't. If there was flyback, maybe the chest wound was the first hit. And by the time the last wound was made, the perp knew she was dead and stopped. JMO

Please don't be afraid to post, I think what you are doing is great. Mr. AG, this goes for you too. And anyone that has sleuthed or posted one word here. I think that we have been fair to our extent of information. And if we only reported on the "news" as you said gm, where would we be? Back as just a footnote without a forum. Look what we've done! We should be proud.
 
Jenifred said:
I know that we were passing the idea around that the chest was the last wound inflicted. Maybe it wasn't. If there was flyback, maybe the chest wound was the first hit. And by the time the last wound was made, the perp knew she was dead and stopped. JMO
But some people are claiming that there were 3 wounds - 1 to the chest, 1 to the shoulder, and 1 to the hand. How could the perp have hit her in the chest and then the shoulder being that they're on opposite sides of the body? If it's because she was standing at the time of the wound to her chest, I wonder if it would have been deep enough to be fatal as it would be the only wound in a location able to end her life, (at an angle that would create flyback anyway). Yet after reading the officer's statement in the search warrant again, it sounds as if it appeared to be one stab wound to the chest. It wasn't until later that we heard "multiple" stab wounds. That would lead me to believe that perhaps they weren't immediately observable.
 
JerseyGirl said:
But some people are claiming that there were 3 wounds - 1 to the chest, 1 to the shoulder, and 1 to the hand. How could the perp have hit her in the chest and then the shoulder being that they're on opposite sides of the body? If it's because she was standing at the time of the wound to her chest, I wonder if it would have been deep enough to be fatal as it would be the only wound in a location able to end her life, (at an angle that would create flyback anyway). Yet after reading the officer's statement in the search warrant again, it sounds as if it appeared to be one stab wound to the chest. It wasn't until later that we heard "multiple" stab wounds. That would lead me to believe that perhaps they weren't immediately observable.

LOL ... I never considered the shoulder as in back, I thought the reference was in the front around the collar bone.
 
golfmom said:
I too feel as if I’ve been offended and targeted unfairly. I have posted enormous amounts on alternative theories and possibly exculpatory information. And the insinuation that I made my decision solely on supposed inside information is upsetting to me. I took my time and have invested over 100 hours. If you don’t like my conclusion fine, but all that supposed insider stuff is right here on the boards. If you don’t want to consider that information as reliable, of course that is your right. But to ridicule or dismiss me because I do is not.

I feel now as if the only thing I’m legitimately able to sleuth now is news. Any theory, idea or information will be dismissed or belittled. Interesting, I am now in the position of the people I tried to help and am becoming increasingly afraid to post.
This whole issues, PMs, etc., reminds me so much of those "tip lines" we often hear about with certain cases. People are allowed to call in, anonymously quite often, and leave "tips" for LE, sometimes even the media.

Sure, as LE will often say, probably 99% of these "tips" are useless - crackpots, weirdos, information that there is no way to substantiate, someone with a bone to pick, too vague, on and on and on. BUT, there is always that remaining 1%.

You then sometimes hear LE report even that they received a "random tip" that led them to this, or led to them that.

While I understand the position of the moderators, if someone is a member of this forum, then they can post for themselves, it would seem too that we may end up NOT obtaining information that could very well be useful in this case. That said, it was my understanding that we were now posting, clearly, if information being posted was UNCONFIRMED, or, UNVERIFIED, what have you....

I think it is still useful to HAVE that information. It CAN serve a purpose. Someone on here can read it, and choose for themselves whether to give that information credence, or not. But where that information CAN become really useful, especially in a forum like this, is having someone grab onto that UNCONFIRMED information, run with it, and see what, if anything, they can find, and to possibly be able to indeed CONFIRM the information, or, as the case may be, completely RULE OUT the information.

I am certainly new here, and many if not all of you guys have way more experience at all of this me. But, to silence ANY theory, ANY opinion, ANY idea, would seem contrary to what sleuthing is all about, to me anyway.

As I said, I can see clearly the frustration inherent in reading, "someone sent me a PM and told me blah blah blah," or, "someone told me this or that." BUT, as long as that type of information is qualified as to the source, quality of the information, substantive nature, etc., then what's the harm?? The first thing I, personally, notice these past few days, with any post, is the beginning - does it say "UNCOMFIRMED," or something to that effect, or, does it say "CONFIRMED." Then I take that information, and digest it accordingly. And, start digging away for more information, if warranted.

It does seem to me, that if information is presented as "CONFIRMED," then there must be some way to back that up, with direct quotes, links elsewhere, something.

Remember, that 1%. All it takes is one solid lead to solve a case.

And I applaud each and every person on here - for your posts, your insights, your thoughts, your opinions, your ideas. Without ALL of the information here, whether confirmed or unconfirmed, we would be doing one thing and one thing only - waiting for a news release from LE. And that folks, ain't been happenin!
 
I just want to encourage everyone to take a step back, and remember why we all joined this forum. Mister A, I can understand where you're coming from but I'm also positive that Timex meant no harm with her statement. She was basically stating the opinion that if the family suspected no guilt in Raven, they would not have reached out to someone who does. I think that the words "anti-Raven site" were typed out of quickness or for lack of a better phrase. Your blog is amazing and you cover a great variety of stories. You are virtually single-handedly responsible for bringing Janet's case to light. Look at how far we've come! Please stay to see this through. You are bright, witty, articulate, and full of heart. Losing you would be a HUGE detriment to this forum.

Golfmom, check out the new TOS-type post that Tybee(?) posted. It states that gossip and rumor are allowed as they are often part of the boards. So please continue what you've been doing, and just be sure to mention if something is rumor or gossip. You were one of the initial "Google girls", and the group of you pressured the media enough to get her story on Greta! That's no small task so you can clearly see the power of this union, and the effect that your presence has had on this case. Please ... everyone ... let's relax and try to refocus. We're all here for Janet. This is the friendliest, tightest-knit forum of which I've ever been a part. We have done amazing things in this case, and I've grown to become committed to it. To lose any one of you would be tragic to this forum. Please stay & continue to be yourself. As a group, we have gotten so far! Please don't anyone get discouraged or throw in the towel now!!! With affection ...
 
golfmom said:
LOL ... I never considered the shoulder as in back, I thought the reference was in the front around the collar bone.
I assumed as much too. That it was in the front.
 
SouthEastSleuth said:
I am certainly new here, and many if not all of you guys have way more experience at all of this me. But, to silence ANY theory, ANY opinion, ANY idea, would seem contrary to what sleuthing is all about, to me anyway.
:clap:
 
ok, am i going nuts here?
i thought mr.allgood's blogs were all listed under the media links thread. Where did they go??

I know I posted them myself. Sorry if i wasn't supposed to...
 
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