General Theories and Motives Rehashed #1

[Zoe Bogart]

Originally Posted by TobyWong*
I am starting to think Haleigh and Jr. were never at the mh that day/night. The only outside person who could verify an after school sighting would be the ac guy but if all we have is LE saying he checked out, i just dont know how he checked out, Just as w/ ron's work hours. The ac guy could've seen misty and tommy and his kids, so he just assumed one was Haleigh or he flat out told LE that he saw no kids, only talked to misty(who ran to the mh cause ron remembered the ac guy, or the ac guy called rons phone and said hey I'll b at your place in a few so misty ran there w/ tom and kids).
In the 911 call it sounds to me that misty as she's talking is spinning around trying to do things or watching ron (stage the home?). So what if after school they get Haleigh at the bus and they all go eleswhere, like to lisa and hank sr. empty house.? something happens there w/ron (maybe he got into a fight w/ jo/misty/tom, mayb ron finds out they were all trying to rob him-or screw him over in some way?) Haleigh gets caught in the middle, ron calls his mom, ron goes to work and tn directs misty and whoever else was there (k but IDK why they would cover this long for the cummings, unless the rat was a "don't tell on my mom" thing?) tn has ggms go to the mh for something, either to stage or get rid of stuff. tn tells ron she will take care of Haleighs body, misty gets left at her parents place to clean up(hence the 90 calls to tom's phone, misty is w/ him). Then her and tommy make it back to green lane around 2 am time, hopefully the scream that was heard was lidnsey finding out what happened(i say hopefully cause she'll break) then ron does his alibi stop at the kangaroo, misty's supposed to meet ron at 3 something a.m he pulls up to her just running back from tommys and is mad cause she was supposed to have already made the 911 call, he forces her to, as he hurridly checks that it looks good for LE's arrival.
Gosh I think I have a good explanation and as I type about 20 other little tidbits have to be thought of.
I just dont think any of it happened the way the cummings are saying. I dont believe ggms was there for laundry drop off. She's the elder female head of family, in mine, we go to that person, she doesnt do our running around for little stuff like clothes, iykwim. So her role being there has importance as well as why tn didnt run over there. Also if ron's family think it was the croslins that hurt Haleigh but ron helped them coverup cause he's ultimately responsible for Haleigh, his family would stick by him. I think if they thought he flat out killed Haleigh they would'nt have helped.(make sense?)Maybe we need a rambling thread

IMHO..I'm more inclined to believe Haleigh never made it home after she was picked up from the bus stop on February 9th..
Also...
IMHO...Eventhough he may not have intended to flat out kill Haleigh, he did.. And I suspect she is deceased because of him and his out of control, reckless, rageful actions...His family knows this too but still covered for him to keep him from going to jail and losing Jr...
When I think of all the lies these people have told and the added pain they have heaped on those who also loved Haleigh by lying for over a year now, it infuriates me to no end..JMO

I think you two have filled in my blanks. The A/C guy could have told LE, sure, the kids were there, but maybe they were Tommy's kids, and maybe Jr, too, but not Haleigh.

GGS was awfully angry when she first told the laundry story to the reporters, and I was puzzled by that. I've never put much stock in her story, especially saying the kids were outside after dark eating on the porch in the cold. Her story has changed over time, too. Then there's TN arriving so quickly after the 911 call, wearing her LE bomber jacket and carrying that 8x10 pic, saying she thought Haleigh was hiding under the bed. :banghead:

Whenever RC is asked anything, he repeats his alibi. "I don't know, I was ....." You know the drill.

The people at the bus stop said Misty picked up Haleigh (in which vehicle?) and RC drove behind her, chasing after her. They were heading in the opposite direction. The event could have taken place elsewhere, leaving no evidence in the MH. I think there are lots of people involved in the coverup. I don't believe anyone's stories about that night.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

She could have been as lucid as GMS says she was and still high as a bird. Opiate junkies can be very high and still pass field sobriety tests. They are most always coherent, even when taking near knockout doses. If GMS had looked at her pupils and said they weren't constricted--that's how you could tell if she wasn't high. If someone has been on a three day binge, if an observer of that person is paying close attention, that observer can tell something is not right, even if the person coming off the binge is coherent and responds appropriately. If Misty were a valium addict, what GMS said would mean more to me. But as it is, she could have been buzzed and GMS is still telling the truth.

As far as the double locking deadbolt--I don't know about that. As far as the cement block, if you go into this believing that Misty or Ron was the killer, then you have to believe the cement block was a diversion. But if you go into this thinking someone from out of state was the killer, you would be more inclined to think that someone wanted to use the backdoor for some reason and maybe just set it up where that someone could have a clear, unobstructed path.

For all the talk about how prominent the cement block was in the 911 call, I think if I woke up in the middle of the night and my door were propped open with a cement block, I think I would most definitely mention this along with anything else that was different in my house. In that trailer, wasn't the cement block the only thing that was different?

The cement block was not in the trailer, it was propping open the screen door and a big deal was made of that in the 911 tape but not a mention of what was propping open the inside door which was self closing.

The screen door had nothing to do with the security of the home, the inside dead bolted door is the important one and not one mention of what was holding it open so she could see it was open in the fog of just waking up.

 

[Wise Old Owl]

Ya know, its funny. In other cases we have seen, it is usually the parent(s) that are first looked at. Marc Klaas has said many times that the first thing he asked for was a polygraph so LE could rule him out and focus on finding his daughter. In Jaycee's case, we've seen how her father was scrutinized for years - but he was "visible" and offered his "whereabouts" and explanations.

One would "think" that RC knows the country is questioning his involvement. There has been much talk this weekend about why he hasn't come out and proven where he was and/or what he was doing. He is quite adamant about "taking out the trash" - yet he has never addressed this "possibility". He has never made a statement about where he was, why it isn't him - he hasn't even acknowledged that HE could be a suspect because he is the parent. He chooses to "avoid" this and when a reporter is courageous enough to ask a question in that direction, all we get is "I was a werk".

That's enough for me to question RC's every move. I got news for him - his "slogan" on his back window (Only God can judge me) is a little off kilter. A JUDGE will judge him - whether on the just the drug charges or if he is ever charged in connection with Haleigh. If he is such a "loving and devoted" parent then why hasn't he "spoke up"?

 

[YellowSubmarine]

I think it's very possible MC is being used as a pawn. Not that I'm saying she doesn't have some fault - even if it's just not being honest. I won't be surprised at all to learn MC was thrown in to take the fall. Reasons:

RC -- He admittedly never questioned MC's inconsistencies and when he should have been questioning her involvement, he instead married her. He was very casual and non-chalant over the fact MC claimed to have been doing laundry while he stated there was no detergent and that she said she was sleeping even though he said the bed hadn't been slept in.

TN -- If the desperately trying to get MC to babysit story is true, it makes me wonder. I mean, when this loving Grandma should have been grabbing those babies and running in the opposite direction of the teenage druggie who just spent several days shacked up with other boys, she was begging her to babysit. Hmmmm.

GGMS -- She was adamant MC was at the mh ALL night. Instead of the logical "Well, she was there at 7-8pm at least", GGMS was trying to convince us that just because MC was there at 7-8pm, that meant she was there all up until 3am.

Both Gma's have gone out of their way to tell us what a loving, motherly person MC was. They couldn't speak highly enough of her. We've since heard witness statements of possible abuse. We know MC took off for several days to party (and it's probably happened more than once). We know MC was apparently not capable of doing the childrens laundry. We know she hadn't even been in the picture that long. We know their relationship was very volatile. What part of any of that says "loving and motherly"?

Another question I've had recently -- If GGMS was doing the childrens laundry .... why were their dirty clothes on the floor by the washer? When discussing the laundry possibly holding the inside door open, TN stated there was ALWAYS dirty laundry on the floor there and then the supposed pink shirt was in the laundry pile by the washer. I seriously doubt when GGMS came to fetch the laundry, she would be ok sifting through all the dirtly laundry to fish the childrens out.

 

[Justin Tyme]

Tobywong - I with you on a lot of what you say with the exception of it being directly the Croslin clan. I think that if was anyone directly in the Croslin camp and RC knew or felt it, (what with RC and his temper and guns, there'd be a few less Croslins left in this world to live to tell a tale.) I don't see RC covering for anyone in the Croslin camp as he only knew these people for about five months prior. He might cover for Misty only because she has something on him and in effect he's in CYA mode for himself. On the other hand I don't see the Croslins covering for RC as they really don't like him with the exception of MC that thought or thinks that she loves him. (Remember that they only knew him for about five months also.) I do think that no matter how much trouble MC's family thinks that she's bringing upon them that they would try to protect her until the bitter end. So if she is covering for RC and his family, and MC's family is covering for her, then it appears that they too are covering for RC, indirectly.
This statement may be or appear to be inappropriate but I can't help but think: The Hatfelds and McCoys.
Now I'm off in search of an asprin.

 

[1Chump]

IMHO.. She would have never been able to get herself togther, rehearse a script and call 911 in that short period of time...Not to mention stage that door...JMO

She does drugs. It would not be hard to pull yourself together if you smoke pot or pop a sedative. They are used to having to do things while wasted.

As far as rehearsing the script, it was obvious that they never counted as any questions, only their "alibis'. The alibis were not that hard to remember. However, it was obvious that they NEVER considered the 911 operator asking any questions. Misty NEVER had an answer to the questions but tried. Ron was only asked two questions and NEVER tried. I think they thought they could put off the questions until LE arrived and TN could answer.

I don't think she was "involved" in the staging...the less Misty knew the better.

 

[Cowdaddy]

The cement block was not in the trailer, it was propping open the screen door and a big deal was made of that in the 911 tape but not a mention of what was propping open the inside door which was self closing.

The screen door had nothing to do with the security of the home, the inside dead bolted door is the important one and not one mention of what was holding it open so she could see it was open in the fog of just waking up.

I just don't think anyone in this crew of petty thieves and dope fiends would be capable of staging a scene that wouldn't be uncovered by even the Putnam County Sheriff's office. These people can barely read and write. If they had staged any crime scene, there would have been a lot more staging than a cement block. There's no way they could have staged any crime scene without totally screwing it up. This is not a crew of criminal geniuses. This is a crew that can't do anything right. And not just that, but they're a crew who would sell each other down the river if there was something in it for them.

 

[1Chump]

Maybe she was asleep when they staged the cement block. That just leaves the question of who staged it.

I believe Misty is quite a liar but I don't believe she is anywhere near smart enough to stage a scene that would fool even Putnam County law enforcement for 5 minutes. And I think they were fooled for longer than 10 minutes by the so called staging.

Maybe the person who took Haleigh out of the mobile home actually went out that back door. If Misty is a doper--and all indications are that she is quite a doper--if she's a doper, it certainly is not a stretch that she could have slept through somebody taking Haleigh. And at this point, the sheriff has put her in a position where it's in her best interest to tell what she knows, because she might wind up getting more time out of these drugs charges than if she just cut a deal to confess to voluntary manslaughter. Misty might be better off cutting a deal to plead guilty to manslaughter, whether she's guilty or not, and get the drug charges dropped.

That is part of why I don't think Misty knows. Misty cannot say what she doesn't know. LE is not going to believe her now if she changes her story and says she was not alone with those kids.

Then you have all those "tests" Misty did that showed her as a liar. Who pushed her into taking all those tests? Ron and TN. I would bet that they "prepared" her for those tests. I bet she was told all about ways to pass the tests...ways they knew would make her fail and destroy her credibility. IMO, Misty would have broke right now if she had real info. But if they filled her with lie after lie, every time she tells a "new" story destroys her credibility even more. The only ones who NEVER ask Misty about her changing stories are Ron and TN. Really, anyone in that situation would be asking, not standing by her.

IMO, Misty was the perfect fall girl. Someone who they could easily manipulate to make her seem guilty in case they needed someone to save their behinds.

 

[Wendy101]

Also the 911 call , I believe Misty was following a script Ron gave her, only, Ron assumend Misty know all the details (hair, weight,spelling of childs name) would be asked. Did Misty stubled badly on those question becasue she was not expecting them?

 

[TobyWong*]

Tobywong - I with you on a lot of what you say with the exception of it being directly the Croslin clan. I think that if was anyone directly in the Croslin camp and RC knew or felt it, (what with RC and his temper and guns, there'd be a few less Croslins left in this world to live to tell a tale.) I don't see RC covering for anyone in the Croslin camp as he only knew these people for about five months prior. He might cover for Misty only because she has something on him and in effect he's in CYA mode for himself. On the other hand I don't see the Croslins covering for RC as they really don't like him with the exception of MC that thought or thinks that she loves him. (Remember that they only knew him for about five months also.) I do think that no matter how much trouble MC's family thinks that she's bringing upon them that they would try to protect her until the bitter end. So if she is covering for RC and his family, and MC's family is covering for her, then it appears that they too are covering for RC, indirectly.
This statement may be or appear to be inappropriate but I can't help but think: The Hatfelds and McCoys.
Now I'm off in search of an asprin.

I'm totally with you on this. It is the only part I cant get a hold of. All I figure is that maybe ron was mad cause he had to pick up Haleigh cause he could'nt count on misty yet, he sees gets Haleigh, sees misty at the stop w/ her sister in law, takes off after them and they all end up at the sr. place. Out of the car verbal fighting, yelling , pushing, shoving either with misty to get her to pay attention to him, guns are pulled, the whole croslin clan except the sr.'s could've been there? Haleigh jumps out of vehicle to help daddy or to stop him from hurting? and is hurt.If guns are being fired and multiple shots are fired from multiple guns than any one is to blame. No one want s to get blamed for murder. So they all lie. But then I'd think jo would talk. Misty gets a couple days to scour for casings and clean up. I just dont know.

 

[1Chump]

From the Greta interview of Ron/Misty on Feb. 13, 2009, the part of the transcript regarding the back door.

VAN SUSTEREN: Misty, had you been the one to block that back door?

CROSLIN: No, I did not lock the back door because the back door is always locked. We really do not use the back door.

CUMMINGS: Absolutely.

VAN SUSTEREN: What kind of lock is on that back door? Is it a deadbolt? Do you need a key, or is there a know on the inside? How do you work that back door lock?

CUMMINGS: There is a lock on the knob on the inside, and it has a deadbolt also. The deadbolt is very hard to get unlocked once you get it locked. You have to push in hard on the door, and a child would never get that unlocked.

VAN SUSTEREN: Misty--go ahead. I'm sorry, Ronald.

CUMMINGS: I do keep it locked. I do check it every afternoon before I leave for work. It is always locked, always.

VAN SUSTEREN: Misty, do you ever use that doo yourself, go in and out that door?

CROSLIN: I mean, once in awhile I will take the garbage out through the back door, or leave through the back door and take a vacuum and vacuum the car out. But that is the only time we use the back door.

First Misty/Ron both say that the back door is always locked and they never use it. Then Ron says they keep it locked, always locked but he checks it every afternoon before he goes to work. Why would he check the door every day before work if they never use it or hardly use it and always keep it locked.

I don't know if others have a door that they never use and keep locked but I do. My front door is only used by delivery people. I don't even think of checking the lock on the door because I don't use the door. Once I found it unlocked and knew it had been unlocked for about 3 weeks, the last itme the pizza guy came. I never noticed it because I do not use the door. So Ron saying that he checks the lock on the door every day tells me it is used all the time.

But the most important part of that interview IMO is Ron talking about the deadbolt on the door. Ron said you have to push in hard on the door to unlock it. That is from the inside. So from the outside, instead of pushing in hard, you would have to pull to get the door unlocked. No stranger is going to know that. IMO, that one comment showed that the backdoor was staged.

 

[TobyWong*]

She does drugs. It would not be hard to pull yourself together if you smoke pot or pop a sedative. They are used to having to do things while wasted.

As far as rehearsing the script, it was obvious that they never counted as any questions, only their "alibis'. The alibis were not that hard to remember. However, it was obvious that they NEVER considered the 911 operator asking any questions. Misty NEVER had an answer to the questions but tried. Ron was only asked two questions and NEVER tried. I think they thought they could put off the questions until LE arrived and TN could answer.

I don't think she was "involved" in the staging...the less Misty knew the better.

I agree. I don't even think there was that much staging. The back door unlocked and propped, Someone grabbed her blanket and imo someone cleared it of illegal drugs and paraphenalia. I doubt he kept much of that there either cause he had to have know how shady the croslins were. That's why I think misty and ron arrived around the same time, either together or she ran from tommys.imo

 

[Cowdaddy]

That is part of why I don't think Misty knows. Misty cannot say what she doesn't know. LE is not going to believe her now if she changes her story and says she was not alone with those kids.

Then you have all those "tests" Misty did that showed her as a liar. Who pushed her into taking all those tests? Ron and TN. I would bet that they "prepared" her for those tests. I bet she was told all about ways to pass the tests...ways they knew would make her fail and destroy her credibility. IMO, Misty would have broke right now if she had real info. But if they filled her with lie after lie, every time she tells a "new" story destroys her credibility even more. The only ones who NEVER ask Misty about her changing stories are Ron and TN. Really, anyone in that situation would be asking, not standing by her.

IMO, Misty was the perfect fall girl. Someone who they could easily manipulate to make her seem guilty in case they needed someone to save their behinds.

I've started to believe that it is a very strong possibility that she has told everything she knows--but with people like this, you just can't be sure. As far as all the tests that she has supposedly failed--none of that is admissible in court because none of those tests are considered to be reliable. The voice stress test appears to be regarded as highly as reading tea leaves, and the lie detector is a good tool to get a confession out of somebody who's guilty but that's about all it's good for.

If the cops can't get to the bottom of this now, they've given it their best try. I don't know what they did in first twenty-four hours or the first month, but since January, they've put maximum heat on Ron, Misty, and Tommy. And what do they have to show for it? Not much that we know of. Nothing on Ron or Misty, and maybe they can get Tommy for not reporting a felony or something like that.

 

[dodie20]

Maybe she was asleep when they staged the cement block. That just leaves the question of who staged it.

I believe Misty is quite a liar but I don't believe she is anywhere near smart enough to stage a scene that would fool even Putnam County law enforcement for 5 minutes. And I think they were fooled for longer than 10 minutes by the so called staging.

Maybe the person who took Haleigh out of the mobile home actually went out that back door. If Misty is a doper--and all indications are that she is quite a doper--if she's a doper, it certainly is not a stretch that she could have slept through somebody taking Haleigh. And at this point, the sheriff has put her in a position where it's in her best interest to tell what she knows, because she might wind up getting more time out of these drugs charges than if she just cut a deal to confess to voluntary manslaughter. Misty might be better off cutting a deal to plead guilty to manslaughter, whether she's guilty or not, and get the drug charges dropped.

I remember in an early interview, (don't remember which one), where Misty said that as soon as Ron got home, she asked him if he had Haleigh with him. Now, she could've made that up, (she's been known to do that), but at the time, I believed her. There were also reports that she had tried to call Ron. But soon after, the story changed. I tend to believe Misty's earlier accounts. I think maybe her question got changed, because it made people wonder if Ron habitually got Haleigh in the middle of the night, (not likely), or that Misty had a slight recollection of him being home, while sleeping. But like I said, she may have made that up & Ron insisted she change it.

 

[pingpong]

IIRC mc met rc from the bus stop. Do we know who or what address her old place of employment was? Did she live with them too?

 

[TrialAddict]

Ron tried to call Misty over 20 times while he was at work, even called over to Tommy's asking if Misty was there. Yet when he came home he was very calm asking Misty why she was up. He is the one that said he pulled into the drive and the door was wide open saw Misty standing in there. He said he asked her why she was up?. I just don't believe Ron would have been all that calm if he was so upset about Misty not answering her phone all night. Might be just me, but Ron seems like the type that would have been mad and the first thing he would have said was why the he!! didn't you answer your phone all night, then ask why she was still up but not in an a matter of fact tone. So imo either he is lying or he was not all that upset about Misty not answering her phone.

about the 2:22 mark

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83RvM4gXrOU

 

[TrialAddict]

I guess Ron isn't going to say he was po'd and yelled at Misty as soon as she saw her in the doorway, on the NG show.

 

[Whisperer]

rc is very odd and on top of that he lies. The door was wide open and he never mentions jr. Wouldn't he be running to jr to check him?
If you ever lost a child, the first thing you do is search. You make contact with everyone in the immediate area. You may run out into the street and stop cars. IOW, you take action. He just rec'd word that very minute and he is already into revenge. What happened to shock and disbelief? and physcially moving in a direction of where she could be.

What does rc do? He is going to kill the person that stole her...I don't know how he jumped to that place w/o going through all the other scenarios knocking on doors, searching the storage shed. He had to know the situation, can't think of any other reason for his behavior, unless we are talking some serious mental issues which I have not ruled out.

so instead of moving his legs and running or searching, his first action is to get a gun, kill somebody and spend his life in prison. These simply do not add up to anyone who has had a child missing, particularly in the first few minutes.

 

[txsvicki]

I think Misty told Ron as soon as he came in that a man took Haleigh and threatened to kill her and the whole family. Ron seemed to know that someone took Haleigh and might be caught quickly so that he could shoot him. Ron could have possibly thought it was a dope dealer he cheated if Misty didn't outright tell him it was Joe.

 

[redcar1]

Because RC is such a 'strange' (unreadable) character, each time I begin to think he just might be innocent in all of this... I remember something he said or a part of his demeanor early on, and it shoots every new theory out of the water.

I just can't believe ANYONE could have taken the news that their child was kidnapped and not gone on a 'running rage' (neighbors/neighborhood etc...). I would have made sure that Everyone in my neighborhood KNEW he/she was missing and BEGGING for help finding them! Unless I had something to hide.
And the unbelievable number of cell phone calls to MC & ToC that night, I'm sorry, but he HAD to have known something was up! Big Time!

I pray something really big breaks soon in this case!

JMO
Beautiful Haleigh NEEDS complete JUSTICE!
(I think we all do on this one! We've all invested soooo much time and too many brain cells for this to go unsolved!)