George Floyd death / Derek Chauvin trial - Sidebar week 1

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I really have not disected the charges, but have read them and am trying to follow along and watch the trial without it taking up too much of my time (all of us that have followed trials, know what I mean I hope lol)

I guess I will have to go back and listen to yesterdays testimony since I was distracted while listening. I'm not sure how restraining should have stopped after he was cuffed makes any sense? he was cuffed right away, they were trying to get him into the car.

I'm also a bit confused why Zimmerman has never had any training involving this neck restraint, yet the other officers had and it was actually in the manual. Maybe I misunderstood.
Right, he was already in handcuffs and was no longer a significant threat, so kneeling on his neck was no longer necessary. The maneuver is more commonly used in order to place an arrestee in handcuffs, from what I understand.

The neck restraint was banned by the mayor in 2019, but the union president argued that it was necessary and apparently they continued to offer training to any officer who wanted training. Whether or not Chauvin had received specific training for the technique is not known, as far as I know.

Maybe Zimmerman never sought training in neck restraints because he didn't feel the need? Idk.

Imo
 
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It's a shame this won't be known to the jury. He knows he effed up.

The outcome, AFAIK, doesn't look positive for Chauvin. Even with a vigorous defense, so far, the prosecution has more than made a case for 3rd degree, and well into 2nd degree.

Nothing could convince me that Chauvin's behavior didn't cause GF death. Contributing factors aside.
 
The neck restraint was banned by the mayor in 2019, but the union president argued that it was necessary and apparently they continued to offer training to any officer who wanted training.
Do you know if it the Union or the PD who still offered the training, and if it was the Union could they be liable for a big civil suit?
 
another BCA Interview with Thomas Lane....one of the rookies..
Thomas Lane BCA interview in George Floyd death

Listening to this makes me angry that Chauvin/Thao decided to come to Cups Foods...Nathan sounds reasonable...of course he was lawyered up but I think he would testify that it was 'TOO MUCH FORCE" and very much regrets not having done more.
He’s the one of the officers I do have some empathy for (as well as Keung)... again JMO but I really feel GF would not have died that day if DC didn’t show up on the scene.
 
Has Chauvin ever expressed remorse for George’s death? Or does he honestly think he didn’t do anything wrong? The indifference to life was evident in the moments leading up to and after GFs death. I also think it was terrible that DC was allowed at the hospital afterwards too. He should have been taken away and separated from the other officers, that was a total failure of policy.
I'm sure Chauvin knew what he did was wrong. Otherwise why wouldn't he have been honest when he was initially questioned? He probably wasn't taken away separately from the officers because at that time his superiors had not been told the whole story. They didn't know until Chauvin was already at the hospital that he had been kneeling on Floyd's neck.

Also, Zimmerman didn't arrive on scene until around 10:00 pm. By then the officers had plenty of time to come up with a story. Their body cams must have been turned off for at least an hour. Imo
 
He’s the one of the officers I do have some empathy for (as well as Keung)... again JMO but I really feel GF would not have died that day if DC didn’t show up on the scene.

SMH, both Lane and Keung were post FTO 2 days/5 days IIRC... just out of FTO/field training. Their lifelong career aspirations perhaps. MOO.

and then this...

still watching the video of Thao (rl in the way) and was VERY interesting that Thao mentioned that CUP foods was a known place for the BLOOD gang. (as to MMA ?? yelling you are doing a blood choke...)

Harrump... sitting on hands

I'll NEVER get over that.
 
Good question. I'll have to go back to the first or second thread to find the article. There was a lot of discussion about that but it was a long time ago.
Don't put yourself out, I've got in my mind it was the Union who offered the training but I have no idea where I read that. I could very well be wrong.

I'm sure we'll find out in the next week or so.
 
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SMH, both Lane and Keung were post FTO 2 days/5 days IIRC... just out of FTO/field training. Their lifelong career aspirations perhaps. MOO.

and then this...

still watching the video of Thao (rl in the way) and was VERY interesting that Thao mentioned that CUP foods was a known place for the BLOOD gang. (as to MMA ?? yelling you are doing a blood choke...)

Harrump... sitting on hands

I'll NEVER get over that.

I think at one time the city wanted to close CUPS because of the gang activity

‘We Had To Duck For Our Lives’: Witness In S. Mpls Shooting

On November 9, 1999, a Minneapolis police officer recovered crack cocaine from a CUP Foods shelf during the course of answering a call reporting an armed man in the area.
FindLaw's Court of Appeals of Minnesota case and opinions.
 
The outcome, AFAIK, doesn't look positive for Chauvin. Even with a vigorous defense, so far, the prosecution has more than made a case for 3rd degree, and well into 2nd degree.

Nothing could convince me that Chauvin's behavior didn't cause GF death. Contributing factors aside.

No matter what pre existing medical conditions he had, or what drugs he was taking, he was managing to live his life-- absent Chauvin's knee on his neck, along
with his full body weight into Mr Floyd's neck For Nine minutes and 20 seconds,
Mr Floyd would be alive today- there is no way around it, despite the defense's
artful and deceptive defenses
 
Don't put yourself out, I've got in my mind it was the Union who offered the training but I have no idea where I read that. I could very well be wrong.

I'm sure we'll find out in the next week or so.

I just happened to have some links open still.
These are documents from Lane's defense, but according the filing it is from MINNEAPOLIS POLICE DEPARTMENT TRAINING MANUAL (Exhibit 7) and were taught to Lane. That filing can be found here

Exhibit 7 can be found here starting on page 6:
https://www.mncourts.gov/mncourtsgo...ses/27-CR-20-12951-TKL/Exhibit67807072020.pdf

There is some interesting things in there, including what to do after someone is handcuffed/under control and moving them to the recovery position.
 
Don't put yourself out, I've got in my mind it was the Union who offered the training but I have no idea where I read that. I could very well be wrong.

I'm sure we'll find out in the next week or so.
You may be right, since I remember the union president being very vocal about it and how necessarily it was for the "officers" protection.
 
I just happened to have some links open still.
These are documents from Lane's defense, but according the filing it is from MINNEAPOLIS POLICE DEPARTMENT TRAINING MANUAL (Exhibit 7) and were taught to Lane. That filing can be found here

Exhibit 7 can be found here starting on page 6:
https://www.mncourts.gov/mncourtsgo...ses/27-CR-20-12951-TKL/Exhibit67807072020.pdf

There is some interesting things in there, including what to do after someone is handcuffed/under control and moving them to the recovery position.
Thanks. I'm a bit confused as to what the dates are referring to in the manual but I'm sure it'll be explained. For example, next to "MAXIMAL RESTRAINT TECHNIQUE" in this screenshot -

Screenshot 2021-04-03 at 9.26.40 PM.png

- on scanning it I can't see a date after April 2018.
 
You may be right, since I remember the union president being very vocal about it and how necessarily it was for the "officers" protection.

I think I read the same about the "killology" training in some of the articles that were previously linked. IIRC, Bob Kroll said he and/or the Police Federation (union) would continue to offer the training even after the department changed its training focus.

I'm not sure exactly where I read it, so please take it as JMO right now. If I find the links, I will add them.
 
SMH, both Lane and Keung were post FTO 2 days/5 days IIRC... just out of FTO/field training. Their lifelong career aspirations perhaps. MOO.

and then this...

still watching the video of Thao (rl in the way) and was VERY interesting that Thao mentioned that CUP foods was a known place for the BLOOD gang. (as to MMA ?? yelling you are doing a blood choke...)

Harrump... sitting on hands

I'll NEVER get over that.
Yep - I’m not sure how Thao will get out of any culpability for this. I think Lane and Keung have a chance but I hope Thao doesn’t. He was a straight up bully to the crowd and showed no concern for GF at all.
 
I'm sure Chauvin knew what he did was wrong. Otherwise why wouldn't he have been honest when he was initially questioned? He probably wasn't taken away separately from the officers because at that time his superiors had not been told the whole story. They didn't know until Chauvin was already at the hospital that he had been kneeling on Floyd's neck.

Also, Zimmerman didn't arrive on scene until around 10:00 pm. By then the officers had plenty of time to come up with a story. Their body cams must have been turned off for at least an hour. Imo
I think that fact that he offered a plea for 3rd degree shortly after the crime indicates he knew full well what he did.
 
Thanks. I'm a bit confused as to what the dates are referring to in the manual but I'm sure it'll be explained. For example, next to "MAXIMAL RESTRAINT TECHNIQUE" in this screenshot -

View attachment 291233

- on scanning it I can't see a date after April 2018.

I too was VERY confused and spent some time on these exhibits. It is clear as mud to me. It MOO appears that the date in the upper right rectangle is when was updated? But jeeeez, iirc that manual was over 800+ pages on one link. I just can't do all of that..

Zimmerman said one thing, but exhibits say another.

We shall have to wait, but know what is coming?

I had my first COVID shot, getting second one... and I need to get out more! :D
 
IMO The article quoted and linked below really brings home what would contribute to both Chauvin’s and Mr Floyd’s mindset in this horror story. The long history of condoned brutality against Black Americans is not open to debate. Black Americans, including Floyd, live with this knowledge and the fear of being an innocent victim either of police or vigilante civilians. Emmett Till is among the most famous examples and has not been forgotten:

Emmett Louis Till (July 25, 1941 – August 28, 1955) was a 14-year-old African American who was lynched in Mississippi in 1955, after being accused of offending a white woman in her family's grocery store. The brutality of his murder and the fact that his killers were acquitted drew attention to the long history of violent persecution of African Americans in the United States. Till posthumously became an icon of the civil rights movement.[1]
Emmett Till - Wikipedia

On the other hand, based on both U.S. and Minneapolis history, Chauvin knew that he would likely face little or no repercussions for his treatment of the Black Mr Floyd, up to and including Floyd’s death...because Chauvin is White. Although Officer Noor was rightly convicted of killing Ms Damond, here we have a Black officer aggressively prosecuted for killing a White woman when White officers face little to no consequences for killing a Black man.

In my youth, Bob Dylan wrote hopefully in 1963 that “The Times They Are A’Changin.’” Sadly, they really haven’t.
The Times They Are A-Changin’ | The Official Bob Dylan Site

Chauvin case draws inevitable comparisons to another high-profile police murder trial
To retired Hennepin County Judge Pamela Alexander, the issue of race is as much a part of this case as it was the Noor trial, where a Black man born in Somalia was charged with killing a white Australian woman. More important, she said, it is impossible to view Floyd's death outside of the context of the long and painful history of police brutality against Black Americans.

"That's been going on for hundreds of years, whether or not people see it,"
Alexander said. "Who is going to be accountable for that?"
<snip>
According to former Hennepin County Chief Public Defender Mary Moriarty, the trial will be closely watched by police reform advocates, for whom the Noor trial only highlighted a double standard in the criminal justice system that historically showed little interest in prosecuting white police officers who killed Black men.

"What they saw was a Black officer being really aggressively prosecuted for second-degree murder and other charges," said Moriarty, who has built a loyal following on Twitter with her minute-by-minute analysis of the Chauvin case.

"The comparison is really a slap in the face to our community, because what we see is white people who kill Black people get off," said Todd Gramenz, a leader of Black Lives Matter-St. Paul.

BBM
 
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Yep - I’m not sure how Thao will get out of any culpability for this. I think Lane and Keung have a chance but I hope Thao doesn’t. He was a straight up bully to the crowd and showed no concern for GF at all.
In his interview Thao must have used the excuse "crowd control" 50 times...he seemed to think he was some sort of bouncer working at a club. He also loves the phrase "not my job"!!! This guy should have been kicked out of the academy but then they would have had a law suit. There is an extreme pressure to get minority cops on the force...Moham. Noor was another one ...fast tracked because they needed Somali officers...did not have adequate training and maybe wrong personality for the job.
 
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