George Floyd death / Derek Chauvin trial - Sidebar week 1

[RANCH]

So many redactions it’s hard to tell but some of the cases in the article were used in the lawsuit filed by the family

https://www.courthousenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/floyd-family.pdf

Of course the plaintiff's in a civil case would bring up any kind of bad behavior by the Minneapolis police department to help win their case.

But can the State do the same thing in the criminal case?

 

[SouthAussie]

So many redactions it’s hard to tell but some of the cases in the article were used in the lawsuit filed by the family

https://www.courthousenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/floyd-family.pdf

There are quite a few articles out there about the culture of the Minneapolis police department, in general. I remember reading them after the senseless murder of Justine Damond, and I have read more now that Chauvin has been charged and is on trial.

It is not irrelevant, but who knows if the subject will be broached in Chauvin's trial. I guess we wait and see.


A Minneapolis Police Officer Opens Up About the Toxic Culture Inside the Department
The Minneapolis police department has a long history of brutality
Minneapolis Police Are 7 Times More Likely To Use Force Against Black People
Minneapolis struggled with police violence and adopted reforms. ‘And yet, George Floyd is still dead.’

 

[Lilibet]

Of course the plaintiff's in a civil case would bring up any kind of bad behavior by the Minneapolis police department to help win their case.

But can the State do the same thing in the criminal case?

Personally, I doubt the state will bring up the bad behavior of LE in Minneapolis unless it’s to explain Mr Floyd’s fearful reaction in this situation. I don’t think they need to do that, and it would probably be shot down on objection, but I could be wrong. They will be allowed to bring up one example of Chauvin’s use of excessive force out of many to show his propensity for aggressive behavior.

 

[RANCH]

Personally, I doubt the state will bring up the bad behavior of LE in Minneapolis unless it’s to explain Mr Floyd’s fearful reaction in this situation. I don’t think they need to do that, and it would probably be shot down on objection, but I could be wrong. They will be allowed to bring up one example of Chauvin’s use of excessive force out of many to show his propensity for aggressive behavior.

That's because there's differences between civil case's and criminal case's.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

@RANCH, you may want to review post #3 by SillyBilly who gives direction on bringing in other similar cases that are similar to this and for comparison and discussion (vs. just posting social justice issue posts)

ADMIN NOTE:

Please stay on topic by discussing the trial without introducing the peripheral matters of riots and protests, BLM, all the extraneous chatter about racial inequities and other social justice issues.

We acknowledge, we understand how critical this trial is in relation to those issues, but we need to stay focused on this case and the trial itself. Yes there is overlap with those important issues, but the thread is specifically dedicated to discussing the George Floyd case and the Derek Chauvin trial and not all those other matters.

If members wish to generally speculate on how such issues may have influenced either the victim or the accused, that's fine, but please don't bring in specifics related to all those other matters and derail the thread with social justice issues that will not be resolved in this discussion.

Thanks !!

Posted by @Weki previously

"Not sure if this has already been posted but judge ruled Wednesday that 2 out of 8 prior incidents with Chauvin would be coming in as ‘he knew better’ for #3 and modus operandi evidence for #5:

Incident No. 3 — Aug. 22, 2015:On August 22, 2015, Defendant Chauvin participated with other officers in rendering aid to a suicidal, intoxicated, and mentally-disturbed male. Chauvin observed other officers physically struggle with the male and one officer used a Taser on the male, to little avail. Eventually, the officers were able to put the male on the ground and place handcuffs on him. Chauvin and the other officers then immediately put the male in the side-recovery position, consistent with training. Chauvin rode with the male to the hospital for medical care. Officers involved in the response received a recommendation for an award for their appropriate efforts and received feedback from medical professionals that, if officers had prolonged their detention of the male or failed to transport the male to the hospital in a timely manner, the male could have died.

Incident No. 5 — June 25, 2017:On June 25, 2017, Defendant Chauvin went to place a female under arrest in her home. As the female walked by, Chauvin grabbed one of her arms and told her she was under arrest. The female tried to pull away, and Chauvin applied a handcuff to one wrist. As the female tried to twist away, Chauvin pulled her down to the ground in the prone position and kneeled on her body to pin her to the ground. After being handcuffed, the female refused to stand, so Chauvin carried her out of the house in a prone position and set her face down on the sidewalk. Even though the female was not physically resisting in any way, Chauvin kneeled on her body, using his body weight to pin her to the ground while another officer moved the squad car closer. Chauvin then directed the other officer to apply a Hobble restraint to the female even though she was not providing any physical resistance. Chauvin’s conduct in kneeling on the female during this entire time was more force than was reasonably necessary under the circumstances.

https://lawandcrime.com/live-trials...hog-tie-a-suspect-who-wasnt-resisting-arrest/

 

[dixiegirl1035]

So many redactions it’s hard to tell but some of the cases in the article were used in the lawsuit filed by the family

https://www.courthousenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/floyd-family.pdf

Excellent! Thanks for sharing as it's a very good background and very key information to assess for folks following this trial. I'm going to add this to the media /information thread.

 

[SouthAussie]

Excellent! Thanks for sharing as it's a very good background and very key information to assess for folks following this trial. I'm going to add this to the media /information thread.

Just want to say what a great job you are doing with the media thread. I pop in there every once in a while and take a look.
Thanks for your continued effort.

 

[SouthAussie]

Pain, trauma and regret spilled out from a Minneapolis courtroom during a first week of critical testimony in the murder trial of Derek Chauvin, the former police officer who knelt on the neck of George Floyd.

Prosecutor Jerry Blackwell broke it down:

4 minutes and 45 seconds as Floyd cried out for help

53 seconds as he flailed due to seizures

and 3 minutes and 51 seconds as Floyd was non-responsive.

A week of compelling and potentially devastating testimony at Derek Chauvin's murder trial - ABC17NEWS

 

[Rocky1]

Of course the plaintiff's in a civil case would bring up any kind of bad behavior by the Minneapolis police department to help win their case.

But can the State do the same thing in the criminal case?

You're right, but this civil case, never went to court. The city counsel "agreed" to pay 27 million. The city wasn't "ordered" to pay.

The judge will determine if any previous bad behavior can be brought up in a criminal trial. If for example, the police department had an MO, or a particular pattern of violating people's rights that were consistent, the judge may allow that.
The same holds true for the defendant. Witness' can be called to testify if a pattern is used by the defendant to commit a crime. In some cases, witness' from pending law suits can testify at a current trial. Bill Cosby's trial is an example of that. Several witness' not related to his trial, but were planning on testifying at a future trial were allowed to testify that he has a pattern of drugging women before he assaulted them.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

I don't think I've ever seen all this before. It has all the legal documents for the case. Easter Bunny Rabbit Hole for anyone to delve into!

Minnesota Judicial Branch - 27-CR-20-12646: State vs. Derek Chauvin

This is the link for all 4 of the cases for future reference also.

Minnesota Judicial Branch - Current High Profile Cases

It appears two days ago the State submitted other cases for consideration that have been mentioned upthread by others. It appears it's for support of changing the jury instructions?

The Noor case https://www.mncourts.gov/mncourtsgov/media/High-Profile-Cases/27-CR-20-12646/Noor04012021.pdf

*1 I. A conviction for third-degree murder under MinnesotaStatutes section 609.195(a) (2016) may be sustained even ifthe death-causing act was directed at a single person.II. The reckless nature of a defendant's act alone may establishthat the defendant acted with a depraved mind within themeaning of Minn. Stat. § 609.195(a).

and The Coleman case https://www.mncourts.gov/mncourtsgov/media/High-Profile-Cases/27-CR-20-12646/Coleman04012021.pdf

 

[Inthedetails]

No , I mean everyone's right to a public trial. What is the legal definition of public trial? Does a private news production count as public? Does a live steam on internet count as public ,because internet service is a private provider.. I just have a lot of questions that i feel i should not take the answers for granted. I need to read the link post above about the rules of DC's trial ,but i feel like nationwide we could have some issues. One trial recently in Wisconsin I saw the last 2 days of proceedings, gave me a bit of pause as too what i saw on live stream and how one camera angle could change the entire public view even though it may have been a biased angle.

Please keep in mind that even if a trial were public in the traditional sense, the court room can't fit a huge number of people. There might be people who want to attend but cannot because the gallery is full. They would be turned away, but the trial still would be considered public.

I wish there were a way to reassure you that judges, lawyers, other court employees, courtroom watchers, etc. are all dedicated to following the rule of law and are not in cahoots to hold secret trials. The trials are public.

jmo

 

[In vino veritas]

Today I thought was a good day for the prosecution.
Zimmerman was a good witness.
IMO, Nelson dropped the ball when Zimmerman claimed that a Neckhold "could be" fatal.
I expected Nelson to ask him during his entire career, in which the Neckhold was allowed to be used, how many people died in police custody from using a Neckhold? The answer is zero. There has never been anyone that has died from a Neckhold in Mpls.

Perhaps he will address it when he presents.
I’m certain he will reference the training manual, specifically highlighting the section that the knee to the side of the neck is non- deadly. He could drive his point home by citing the statistics at that time.
At least, if he is a good good defense attorney, this is what I’d expect.

 

[In vino veritas]

I don't think I've ever seen all this before. It has all the legal documents for the case. Easter Bunny Rabbit Hole for anyone to delve into!

Minnesota Judicial Branch - 27-CR-20-12646: State vs. Derek Chauvin

This is the link for all 4 of the cases for future reference also.

Minnesota Judicial Branch - Current High Profile Cases

It appears two days ago the State submitted other cases for consideration that have been mentioned upthread by others. It appears it's for support of changing the jury instructions?

The Noor case https://www.mncourts.gov/mncourtsgov/media/High-Profile-Cases/27-CR-20-12646/Noor04012021.pdf

*1 I. A conviction for third-degree murder under MinnesotaStatutes section 609.195(a) (2016) may be sustained even ifthe death-causing act was directed at a single person.II. The reckless nature of a defendant's act alone may establishthat the defendant acted with a depraved mind within themeaning of Minn. Stat. § 609.195(a).

and The Coleman case https://www.mncourts.gov/mncourtsgov/media/High-Profile-Cases/27-CR-20-12646/Coleman04012021.pdf

IMHO... the State should not be permitted to keep changing the goal posts at this juncture in the trial. As it is, they were able to get 3rd degree murder charges reinstated right before the trial. THAT was the time for this new motion.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

IMHO... the State should not be permitted to keep changing the goal posts at this juncture in the trial. As it is, they were able to get 3rd degree murder charges reinstated right before the trial. THAT was the time for this new motion.

I've seen in many trials that they go back and forth on the jury instruction verbiage up until the time of closing arguments. MOO I don't think it's uncommon, actually, more common than not in high profile murder trials that is. (Reading the two documents, it appears that is what the documents are for - using them as Case Law/Appelate Opinions)

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Perhaps he will address it when he presents.
I’m certain he will reference the training manual, specifically highlighting the section that the knee to the side of the neck is non- deadly. He could drive his point home by citing the statistics at that time.
At least, if he is a good good defense attorney, this is what I’d expect.

I does appear that he'll be ripping apart the training manual etc etc and that it states neck is not deadly force? I found three of the exhibits in this document.. lots re manual but downright confusing to me, and also as to the source of the documents. Defense Exhibits #6, 7 & 8 below

https://www.mncourts.gov/mncourtsgo...ses/27-CR-20-12951-TKL/Exhibit67807072020.pdf

Also, in Lane's motion it is stated that the neck restraints were indeed considered to be non-deadly force.

Which is NOT what Zimmerman I thought said on the stand. We shall see.

https://www.courthousenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/floyd-family.pdf pages 11-14

 

[SouthAussie]

I does appear that he'll be ripping apart the training manual etc etc and that it states neck is not deadly force? I found three of the exhibits in this document.. lots re manual but downright confusing to me, and also as to the source of the documents. Defense Exhibits #6, 7 & 8 below

https://www.mncourts.gov/mncourtsgo...ses/27-CR-20-12951-TKL/Exhibit67807072020.pdf

Unless something has changed since 25 May 2020, choke holds/neck restraints are considered deadly force, as per MN statute.
(They have since been prohibited for Minneapolis police in an MPD update.)


Sworn MPD employees are only authorized to use force consistent with MPD training. Just because force is legally justified does not automatically mean that using force or the level of force is authorized by policy; for example, some specific types of use of force are limited to specific circumstances and force must comply with all applicable sections of policy including those related to de-escalation. Some specific examples include that:

• While MN Statute includes Choke Holds as legally permissible in Deadly Force situations, MPD officers are prohibited from using such techniques (see the Prohibition on Neck Restraints and Choke Holds section in P&P 5-302).

https://www.minneapolismn.gov/media...documents/MPD-Policy-and-Procedure-Manual.pdf


MN Statute section 609.06 Subd. 3 (b) defines a choke hold “as a method by which a person applies sufficient pressure to a person to make breathing difficult or impossible, and includes but is not limited to any pressure to the neck, throat, or windpipe that may prevent or hinder breathing, or reduce intake of air. Choke hold also means applying pressure to a person's neck on either side of the windpipe, but not to the windpipe itself, to stop the flow of blood to the brain via the carotid arteries.”

 

[turaj]

The trial is broadcast - that's pretty public. Essentially everyone in the world can watch.

jmo

I'm mainly interested in the cases that were in the body of your post and if Chauvin was involved with any of them. Looks like the answer is no. So those are unrelated to this trial. If I'm wrong please correct me.

The linked article does have information about excessive force by police in Minneapolis on handcuffed suspects not involved in this case. I would like to ask the moderators of this trial thread if this is something that can be explored by members during this trial.

How far from this particular case can we go in regards to excessive force by police in this trial thread?

This is a very well known problem in Minneapolis...the police force has had these issues for long before Chauvin. As I understand it the POLICE DEPT. is not on trial here just Chauvin and while Mr. Chauvin has a long history of bad police work I don't know if it involves any of those cases.

 

[Weki]

Michael Friedman, who previously served on a police disciplinary review panel, said ....... Chauvin's actions reminded him of "the most common reason for excessive force that I saw — was not responding to someone who was physically challenging, but what I would call retaliatory control."

He noted examples like when someone flees police, or they are resisting authority or what was alleged in Floyd's case, that he refused to be brought into the squad car. Friedman said such instances can bring out a certain mentality among many officers, particularly of the earlier generation, that they pile on force as a means of retaliation to maintain control.

Greg Hestness, a former MPD deputy chief, said .... "Chauvin's acts were not sort of knee-jerk, it wasn't a quick reaction, there were eight to nine minutes there" ... "I mean, to this day, I don't know what he was doing kneeling on that man for eight to nine minutes."

Chauvin case draws inevitable comparisons to another high-profile police murder trial

Retaliatory control!!! That is exactly it! Thanks for posting this. Initially it was retaliatory against GF and then it turned into retaliatory against the gathered group yelling at him to stop!

 

[Weki]

I don’t recall reading this article about Chauvin in the NYT before. Interesting and sad insights into his life and personality. (Apologies if it’s behind a paywall)

Officer Who Pressed His Knee on George Floyd’s Neck Drew Scrutiny Long Before

Mr. Chauvin, his lawyer and family members have declined to talk to The Times. Yet dozens of interviews with acquaintances depict a police officer who seemed to operate at an emotional distance from those around him. Mr. Chauvin was a quiet and rigid workaholic with poor people skills and a tendency to overreact — with intoxicated people, especially — when a less aggressive stance might have led to a better outcome, interviews show.

He was awkward. Other officers often didn’t like him or didn’t know him. He didn’t go to parties and didn’t seem to have many friends. Some neighbors knew so little about him that they didn’t even know he was a police officer until after his arrest.

Very interesting! Gives a lot of insight into his behavior on that day! It sounds like all he knew was work and he had anger/control issues and he was able to vent that out as a cop/security guard. The encounter with the mom is chilling!

I’m not so sure now that the wife didn’t see this as an opportunity to get out of the marriage. My understanding is qualified immunity makes it so that Chauvin can not be sued personally. In the Jason van Dyke case, his wife was there in court every day with their priest! And she even testified in the penalty phase. It sounds like the Chauvins were leading separate lives anyway before May 25, 2020. I think she didn’t want to be dragged down with him in all of this. I can’t blame her. But it’s sad!

 

[Cubby]

Retaliatory control!!! That is exactly it! Thanks for posting this. Initially it was retaliatory against GF and then it turned into retaliatory against the gathered group yelling at him to stop!

Bingo! Perfect description. Retaliatory control. I hope those words make it to the jury.