George Zimmerman /Trayvon Martin General Discussion #11 Tues. July 9

[Just K]

If GZ was "Stunned" he was perfectly able to grab his gun, point it to TM's heart and shoot to kill. IMO, he was not suffering from brain trauma at all. IMO

 

[Just K]

And WHY is this relevant??

Because that is the evidence being discussed by DW with Dr D.

 

[sorrell skye]

Regarding TM having the possible capability to move his arms from being allegedly outstretched to a position beneath him: IMO, despite what this Dr. has stated, I must disagree with his opinion on this particular matter. The pectoralis major muscles are prime movers of the humerus (upper arm bone).

With a gun shot wound to the heart, TM's left pectoralis major muscle would have been damaged as the bullet traveled through his chest, affecting the muscle's ability to contract, IMO.

I agree with some of his other testimony, but I don't agree with this particular portion.

FWIW: I hold a degree in kinesiology (the study of human movement). IMO, TM would probably not have been able to move his left arm after the gun shot wound.

 

[Karmady]

It's possible this could happen in other cases, but I do not believe it happened in this case; no one saw TM move his hands or arms. Police were on the scene within a minute after the shot from my understanding so TM had already passed once they got there to try and revive him. :twocents:

fair enough. I believe it could easily have happened in this case. That no one saw it doesn't mean anything to me under the circumstances. Moving your arms slighty takes literally a second or two, tops. jmo

 

[cityslick]

Or when TM tries to extricate himself from GZ, the heavier of the two slips, in the wet grass and hits his own head...on a bush, a tree, the drainage cover, the poop can, or even the sidewalk. We only have the defendant's stories.

How did the blood get on his face then? How did his nose get swollen? In this theory, did he hit his head multiple times on the drainage cover? Bouncing off of it to cause multiple lacerations?

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

To be clear I am not PRO Zimmerman. I am PRO justice.
I am looking at this case piece by piece, evidence, testimony alone..

I have no personal feelings about Zimmerman that at all push me at all in his favor.

I feel horrible about TM's death and what happened. I feel awful for his parents and that is where my heart resides..

But I want justice to come out.. Not something to sooth the emotions..

OMO

 

[Peliman]

IMO

Shooting and killing is attacking

Following first by car and then on foot causing Trayvon to run away which there is no dispute is Zimmerman chose to confront far more than 70 yards away from his vehicle and towards Trayvons home and in fact the autopsy report says the lead investigator reports to the ME investigator the resident confronts the male and a physical fight takes place. So GZ tells him that or he comes to that conclusion based on evidence at the scene.

Cause of death on the autopsy report is homocide.

Although the term homicide is sometimes used synonymously with murder, homicide is broader in scope than murder. Murder is a form of criminal homicide; other forms of homicide might not constitute criminal acts. These homicides are regarded as justified or excusable. For example, individuals may, in a necessary act of Self-Defense, kill a person who threatens them with death or serious injury, or they may be commanded or authorized by law to kill a person who is a member of an enemy force or who has committed a serious crime. Typically, the circumstances surrounding a killing determine whether it is criminal. The intent of the killer usually determines whether a criminal homicide is classified as murder or Manslaughter and at what degree.

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/homicide

It's still to be determined if it was a murder by legal definition. IMO

 

[ShadyLady]

IMO

Shooting and killing is attacking

Following first by car and then on foot causing Trayvon to run away which there is no dispute is Zimmerman chose to confront far more than 70 yards away from his vehicle and towards Trayvons home and in fact the autopsy report says the lead investigator reports to the ME investigator the resident confronts the male and a physical fight takes place. So GZ tells him that or he comes to that conclusion based on evidence at the scene.

Cause of death on the autopsy report is homocide.

Self-defense is what this case is about. Either you believe a man that did not Lawyer-UP (as I have seen many do), and spoke freely with LE (and I believe PASSED a lie-detector test), or you do not. But, it's up to a jury now.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Regarding TM having the possible capability to move his arms from being allegedly outstretched to a position beneath him: IMO, despite what this Dr. has stated, I must disagree with his opinion on this particular matter. The pectoralis major muscles are prime movers of the humerus (upper arm bone).

With a gun shot wound to the heart, TM's left pectoralis major muscle would have been damaged as the bullet traveled through his chest, affecting the muscle's ability to contract, IMO.

I agree with some of his other testimony, but I don't agree with this particular portion.

FWIW: I hold a degree in kinesiology (the study of human movement). IMO, TM would not have been able to move his left arm after the gun shot wound.

Im just going to suggest that you do some research because it happens much more than I believed. People get shot and do survive to talk and move and even get to hospital as Trace Adkins did with a shot through his heart and lungs..

Link provided in prior post..

OMO

 

[EquallyDivided]

Just WOW. Please, someone explain to me how you can have a bloody head, and cleaned up photos of yourself that show multiple abrasions ALL OVER your face, and still have the people in the general public question whether or not you were punched repeatedly, or beaten up? I am trying to understand this logic, but it's absolutely inconceivable to me.

This is pretty basic evidence. I believe that asserting anything otherwise, is like saying the sky is brown.

Now, I clearly understand the definition of reasonable.


IMO

 

[Mahouston69]

That does not mean he did not have one.. His symptoms, Dizziness, lightheaded as he told EMT's are all signs of concussion.

OMO

They are also common side effects of his medications as I linked to earlier.
There is no medical evidence he had a concussion or any serious injury.
I hit my head on the curved plastic mirror in my car and bled all down my face.
Another fact.

 

[PaperDoll]

fair enough. I believe it could easily have happened in this case. That no one saw it doesn't mean anything to me under the circumstances. Moving your arms slighty takes literally a second or two, tops. jmo

But he would have had to move his body up (takes effort) to get his hand back under because GZ said, and demonstrated in his reenactment video that he spread his arms/hands out (like a T), which means that TM would have had to use a lot of energy to move his arm/hands back in the position he was found. He's losing his life, getting weaker by the second.

 

[Chelly]

In general I am not a fan of expert witnesses provided by DT's. However, Dr DiMaio is credible and easy to like. imo

 

[cityslick]

Just WOW. Please, someone explain to me how you can have a bloody head, and cleaned up photos of yourself that show multiple abrasions ALL OVER your face, and still have the people in the general public question whether or not you were punched repeatedly, or beaten up? I am trying to understand this logic, but it's absolutely inconceivable to me.

This is pretty basic evidence. I believe that asserting anything otherwise, is like saying the sky is brown.

Now, I clearly understand the definition of reasonable.


IMO

The irony is (IMO) the state has not even argued that GZ did not sustain these injuries during the fight. They have not suggested otherwise.

 

[faw720]

What I say in this post is my opinion only.

I still have questions as to why GZ was even carrying a gun that night. Sure he had a permit, but I know many people who have conceal & carry permits. They don't carry unless they have a specific purpose in mind. A gun should never be carried unless you have specific plans for using it & I can't see any reason carrying one for a trip to Target. That purpose might be because they are traveling long distances never knowing what kind of armed nuts might be out on the road looking to harm fellow travelers or if someone actually invaded their house. No one I know would be carrying in their housing project even though the projects had previously had burgulary problems. I once lived in a neighborhood watch area & never did the police tell us to carry a weapon & patrol the area. Being aware was the key issue & then we were to call police if we spotted a problem. My take is that GZ went out looking for trouble & he sure as heck found it. I think carrying a gun gave him & his ego a boost. Shooting someone just because you thought they were on drugs is no excuse. Even if by some chance TM attacked first, why not just slug it out mano a mano. I do think that probably both men let prejudice caused them to make bad decisions.

 

[missmazzy]

They are also common side effects of his medications as I linked to earlier.
There is no medical evidence he had a concussion or any serious injury.
I hit my head on the curved plastic mirror in my car and bled all down my face.
Another fact.

With all due respect, there is no evidence that GZ suffered side effects from any of the legally prescribed meds he was taking. If it comes into evidence in the future, I stand corrected. All IMO.

 

[sorrell skye]

Im just going to suggest that you do some research because it happens much more than I believed. People get shot and do survive to talk and move and even get to hospital as Trace Adkins did with a shot through his heart and lungs..

Link provided in prior post..

OMO

I'm going off my own professional knowledge, based on my 14+ years of experience in my field. I'm not disputing that other movements were possible, but I am challenging the notion that TM would have been able to voluntarily move his left arm from an alleged outstretched position to a position where his left arm was beneath the front of his body, based on where the bullet entered his body (left chest) & the muscle(s) involved.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

What I say in this post is my opinion only.

I still have questions as to why GZ was even carrying a gun that night. Sure he had a permit, but I know many people who have conceal & carry permits. They don't carry unless they have a specific purpose in mind. A gun should never be carried unless you have specific plans for using it & I can't see any reason carrying one for a trip to Target. That purpose might be because they are traveling long distances never knowing what kind of armed nuts might be out on the road looking to harm fellow travelers or if someone actually invaded their house. No one I know would be carrying in their housing project even though the projects had previously had burgulary problems. I once lived in a neighborhood watch area & never did the police tell us to carry a weapon & patrol the area. Being aware was the key issue & then we were to call police if we spotted a problem. My take is that GZ went out looking for trouble & he sure as heck found it. I think carrying a gun gave him & his ego a boost. Shooting someone just because you thought they were on drugs is no excuse. Even if by some chance TM attacked first, why not just slug it out mano a mano. I do think that probably both men let prejudice caused them to make bad decisions.

He was carrying one because he had a right to. He had a legal firearm and was carrying it legally. That is not in question and not part of the case.

I think that is part of the issue. That people have issues with gun laws and are applying that to the case but it is not part of this case.

IT was legal, He was legal.

This is just about whether or not he was justified to use self defense and save himself.

OMO

 

[LynnM]

70 yards is by his house.IMO.when I say I'm 'by my house" I could be two blocks away,that's still "by my house"

Especially when you consider that he went a considerable distance to the 7-11, IMO.

 

[Mahouston69]

Although the term homicide is sometimes used synonymously with murder, homicide is broader in scope than murder. Murder is a form of criminal homicide; other forms of homicide might not constitute criminal acts. These homicides are regarded as justified or excusable. For example, individuals may, in a necessary act of Self-Defense, kill a person who threatens them with death or serious injury, or they may be commanded or authorized by law to kill a person who is a member of an enemy force or who has committed a serious crime. Typically, the circumstances surrounding a killing determine whether it is criminal. The intent of the killer usually determines whether a criminal homicide is classified as murder or Manslaughter and at what degree.

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/homicide

It's still to be determined if it was a murder by legal definition. IMO

Correct. The jury is determining if it was murder2 or justifiable homocide.
I was stating facts, as substantiated by evidence.