George Zimmerman /Trayvon Martin General Discussion #14 Friday July 12

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I don't agree with you. That is all. I don't believe that he was in fear of his life. He did not try to protect himself at all. He has never said that he hit TM. How do you fear for your life and not fight back? I don't believe his only option was to shoot an unarmed 17 year old. I believe the state has proved manslaughter. Plain and simple. My opinion doesn't matter because its up to the jury. But just because I don't agree with you doesn't make me wrong.


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You have to have evidence to PROVE That GZ killed TM and it was murder. You have to have proof. What you believe does not matter. IT really doesn't. Not without evidence to back it up.

There has to be proof to convict. It is that simple.

 

[Aya]

Food for thought... Some may see this, some may not... but food for thought anyway:

In your own neighborhood, for whatever your own reasons, you and your husband or boyfriend see somebody outside who seems suspicious...

How many of your husbands/boyfriends would go outside to investigate, and possibly bring something with them (golf club, bat, etc). Just curious.

Going to investigate someone or something that YOU deem suspicious is not the craziest concept in the world. I've heard noises before and have grabbed a coat hanger to go investigate. Probably smarter to stay locked in my bedroom. But I still went to look because I wanted to know what was up.

Food for thought.

IMO

My husband and I heard a house alarm go off. We called the police and stayed inside. It was a dark night not raining though. We didn't want to grab a weapon and possibly go up against someone else with a weapon.

Moo.

 

[PaperDoll]

The basis in this case is GZ was on his back with TM on top (forensics, JG testimony) and TM was moving his arms down (attacking?) on GZ (JG testimony). He was in fear of getting seriously hurt/killed because he was in a vulnerable position.

How is that not self defense?

I wasn't actually pertaining my quote to this but to another posters reply to a post I posted :blushing:

However, this fight between TM and GZ, NO ONE saw it from the beginning, no one. GZ played a part in the death of a unarmed teen and it needs to be explained and yet no one knows who started it. So we are going by what GZ claims happened.

 

[cityslick]

I don't agree with you. That is all. I don't believe that he was in fear of his life. He did not try to protect himself at all. He has never said that he hit TM. How do you fear for your life and not fight back? I don't believe his only option was to shoot an unarmed 17 year old. I believe the state has proved manslaughter. Plain and simple. My opinion doesn't matter because its up to the jury. But just because I don't agree with you doesn't make me wrong.


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How do you know he didn't? He was on his back, in a vulnerable position. He was (IMO) yelling for help for 40+ seconds.

 

[sacrablue]

If someone points a gun at me I am going to retreat...really. I have a brain MOM. IMO

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

No it has to prove that he murdered him with ill will yada yada yada, it is the defense who has to prove self defense IMO

That is not the law. The law is that the state has to prove MURDER. They have to have evidence of that and prove it.

GZ does not have to prove a thing. NOT legally.

And that is what matters. Not emotion.. Not what you want to happen but what is legally required.

 

[Isabelle]

I missed that. Definitely diminishes the cop wannabe, power hungry theories. Although the security vehicle may have helped the situation and identified to TM immediately who GZ was and why he was driving around. The outcome may have been different.

Citizen on Patrol would have required that GZ give more time to the duty and it is strictly voluntary, and scheduled. I don't think COP can pick and choose when they want to do the job. IMO

 

[glamourkitty1922]

Exactly, hide behind the law and kill people. Sounds like the Wild West to me. IMO

I prefer your so-called "wild west" to the other option of not being able to defend myself. MOO :twocents::twocents::twocents::twocents:

 

[EGirl]

Well, his injuries were pretty minor. It wouldn't be that hard to bang yourself up a little without being clearly seen. In the dark. MOO

Not saying GZ did that, because honestly he wasn't that badly hurt so his injuries don't really support self-defense anyway. No TM dna on the gun either. MOO

<modsnip>..... You do not have to allow some to cause you life threatening injuries before you defend yourself. The fact that they are attacking you is reason to stop the attack immediately. Not wait for MORE injuries.

 

[Overuled]

How do you know he didn't? He was on his back, in a vulnerable position. He was (IMO) yelling for help for 40+ seconds.

Plus having his head banged around- that alone could have killed gz. moo

 

[Chester_from_THM]

I think referring to a dead kid with no police record (or even clear evidence of wrongdoing), a reputation as being a decent person, and no weapon of any sort as a "" is a quite a stretch. I do find it interesting how those who seem to buy GZ's story all tend to fall back on this stereotype that TM was some gang-banging kid when there's no evidence of that. IMO

I agree. I find this very distasteful.

As someone pointed out, in ever other forum I have read at this site, the victim is treated with dignity. This one, the victim and his family have been consistently disparaged and worse.

 

[William N]

When the defense has a slideshow presentation of most of the prosecution's own witnesses...That doesn't bode well for the prosecution IMO.

IMO still another indication of the role reversal this trial has had from the start. The defense puts on evidence and the prosecution tries to raise doubt against it.

 

[BiggNewt]

GZ shot TM in self defense but we need to know what caused this to happen and unfortunately in this case, no one, but GZ and TM, knows what actually happened. And IMO GZ is going to stretch the truth and leave things out because after all he shot and killed someone. He had better have a good story to back up his claim. :twocents:

If no one knows and there is no evidence to help us out. That's a Not Guilty verdict..

 

[Perthgirl62]

are you implying that TM was attacked? Can you point to ANY evidence that shows any injury on TM except the GSW?

Can you point to any evidence that proves TM was instigator?

How do we know that RZ didn't confront TM and that TM got the upper hand?

 

[Badlands]

The contention that the defense doesn't have to prove anything is false. GZ admits that he shot and called Trayvon Martin. He has to prove that it was self-defense or he's negligent in a homicide.

 

[cityslick]

There was a female witness that testified she saw someone wearing red on top. Was that testimony thrown out? IMO

That female witness didn't see that until after the shot. I believe it's up for debate when she actually saw it though.

 

[Isabelle]

What is MOM talking about? Medic buddies?

 

[ShadyLady]

Exactly, hide behind the law and kill people. Sounds like the Wild West to me. IMO

When you can't follow a suspicious person that fits the "offender profile" in your neighborhood while on the phone with LE, without getting brutally assaulted...it IS the old west.

IMO!

 

[faw720]

Would someone please wake me when closing arguments are finished? Both defense & prosecution just drone on & on. West is the only one who gets my attention because he irritates me. All MOO

 

[dog.gone.cute]

According to Bill Sheaffer on WFTV, a conviction of 2nd degree murder could carry a maximum sentence of up to life in prison. Also, Bill Sheaffer stated in his commentary that life in FL means life.

:seeya: Hi Sorrell ! Thanks for this info from Sheaffer -- he knows his stuff !

IMO . MOO . JMO ...