George Zimmerman /Trayvon Martin General Discussion #14 Friday July 12

[AngelWings444]

Superficial injuries caused by turning head side to side in trying to get out. I would expect a very wide area of bruising on the back of the head if what GZ says is true and, there would have been debris stuck in the wounds and to the skin. None of that is visible. IMO

I still think Trayvon elbowed GZ to try to get him to "get off" of him! There is no way Trayvon punched GZ 20-30 times, the evidence proves otherwise. :twocents:

 

[RANCH]

And the facts do not support GZ's statements....regarding the "attack" - MOM is doing a guessing game.

IMO

I think that the state is doing at least as much guessing as O"Mara. That means reasonable doubt to me. MOO.

 

[dog.gone.cute]

And if it is just an innocent person walking home from the store to his home - then what?:moo: IMO

:twocents: As long as this person is NOT "messing with me" or my property, then nothing would happen ... BUT the moment that person starts messing with me or my property, then I am going to defend myself no matter what it takes ... IMO

I live in a very high crime area so you have to always be on your guard ...

JMO and MOO ... but I would have NO problem at all having George Zimmerman as MY neighbor ...

IN MY OPINION ...

:moo:

 

[Mahouston69]

And how did the recoil cause the wounds on the back of GZ's head? These came IMO from TM slamming GZ's head into concrete.

A force hitting you in the face will slam your head backwards into the ground.
defense witness testifies a bump on the head can kill you, and cut your skin on a hard flat surface. I believe his head hit the water cover, or even his flashlight in the grass, or rock in the grass, or just the dirt.

 

[PaperDoll]

I have it DVRed and what he said was, "You don't even have to believe it's accurate."

Thank you :blowkiss:

 

[MeeBee]

Oy. IMO.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Wonder why GZ didn't stay with the SYG and let that go before the court? IMO

Because the STATE charged him with murder.

 

[EGirl]

Yes, GZ went after, behind, chased TM.
He didn't have to touch Trayvon but simply point his gun to predicate a fight for the gun and cause Trayvon fear for his life.

So, you think GZ pulled a gun on TM and TM decided to start hitting him?

NO way IMO

 

[katiewonders]

Two small wounds that didn't need stitches...heads bleed profusely when cut.

IMO

We're still discussing the wounds, even when someone doesn't have to have any wound at all to claim self-defense? IMO

 

[bellaalex]

MarkOM, "I wish there was a guilty, not guilty and COMPLETELY INNOCENT" box to check.

I totally agree with him.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

TM was uninjured before GZ caught up with him. Then he was dead.

IMO

Facts not in evidence.

 

[Linda7NJ]

I must say I have never watched such lame boring closings in my life. Both so far were beyond terrible.

 

[logicalgirl]

Right, I'm actually not saying the gun recoiled, I'm simply looking at the pic and not seeing much injury to his nose. I get what you are saying about blood, but again, his eyes are not black and blue and the swelling isn't all there. This is just my opinion on how I view his injuries because I've seen much much worse by a lot less "blows" to someone's nose.

When I was about 15, I fell and hit my cheek on a brick wall. My face was bruised black and blue as were my eyes, then yellow and blue and lasted about two months. George's injuries were minimal.

IMO

 

[ShadyLady]

IN MY OPINION ...[/B]

:moo:

Me neither. We need more community involvement not less. imo

 

[FrayedKnot]

The argument that Trayvon was standing his own ground is specious. Totally irrelevant to the trial because he is dead and not charged with a crime. SYG and self defense are legal defenses to criminal charges. They are not concepts that somehow apply philosophically, or whatever, to a dead person or a person not charged with a crime.

jmo

Yes. But TM is the victim here, and yet he is being blamed for his own murder. If GZ was the initial aggressor, and TM was defending himself, then GZ's claim of SYG/SD is moot. TM possibly standing his ground (without a gun) is indeed a relevant point.

 

[PrairieWind]

The contention that the defense doesn't have to prove anything is false. GZ admits that he shot and called Trayvon Martin. He has to prove that it was self-defense or he's negligent in a homicide.

Incorrect. Once the defendant makes a prima facie case of self defense, the state must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that it was NOT self defense.

 

[PaintingAnemone]

The GSW was obviously the last 'blow' in this altercation which means GZs injuries precipitated the GSW.

Is there any evidence (direct or circumstantial) to support GZ attacking TM first? If not, the state has failed to prove it's case.

Of course there's circumstantial evidence. Why would someone attack another person while yelling "get off, get off?" That makes zero sense. So that indicates right there that GZ may have started the altercation.

As far as direct evidence, there's also no direct evidence that TM attacked GZ first. Failing to prove this doesn't mean the state has failed entirely. It simply means no one knows for certain who started the altercation. But we do know who instigated it, who pursued, who armed himself with deadly force, and who used that force against an unarmed teenager. If self-defense, it's still imperfect self-defense, and that means manslaughter. IMO, that means jail time for GZ. I find it incredibly difficult to believe that a jury wouldn't hold him accountable for his irresponsible actions that night.

 

[glamourkitty1922]

So, let me get this straight. I attack my neighbor, neighbor overpowers me and pounds my head with the only weapon he has, his hands because he fears for his life, and I am in the right shooting him because when he feared for his life and aggressively repelled me, I then feared for my life. Like I said previously, Merry-go-round. IMO

That is where evidence comes in. If there is no evidenct showing who started the fight, the benefit of the doubt goes to the defendent. That is the meaning of innocent until proven guilty.
I went into this trial believing Zimmerman guilty, after seeing the lack of evidence, and finding out that NBC and the Dept of Justice both indulged in agitating, I am angry. At the media and the govt. This has turned into a kangaroo trial.

MOO :twocents::twocents::twocents::twocents::twocents::twocents::twocents:

 

[BiggNewt]

I still think Trayvon elbowed GZ to try to get him to "get off" of him! There is no way Trayvon punched GZ 20-30 times, the evidence proves otherwise. :twocents:

Everyone embellishes. I've done it plenty of times. I'm not a murderer, just a man. IMO

 

[Karmady]

Wonder why GZ didn't stay with the SYG and let that go before the court? IMO

Not sure, but I know O'Mara doesn't like the law. That's one of the reasons I said earlier that if he had his druthers, he'd be prosecuting George rather than defending him. jmo