George Zimmerman /Trayvon Martin General Discussion #14 Friday July 12

[cityslick]

I get what you're saying and I agree that this is how our system does and should work.

But what I am reading in a few of these posts is that nobody saw TM lay a hand on GZ. So saying that GZ shot TM because he was being beaten isn't a fact, but the defendant's testimony. That isn't any more factual than Jodi Arias claiming self-defense. I mean, yes, it could have happened in GZ's case, but we really don't know. Only GZ says so. KWIM?

What really worries me is how easy it would be to just shoot someone, then give yourself a few superficial cuts and scrapes to support a self-defense claim (Darlie Routier sp?). Luckily, it doesn't always work.

I honestly don't know WHAT to think of this case or what to believe. But I do know if GZ had listened to the police, none of this would have happened. MOO

But this is incorrect, there is evidence, from both witness and forensics, that actually does show that TM was on top of GZ. The logical conclusion is TM is beating GZ because GZ has injuries, no matter how slight.

Someone needs to explain how you give yourself the injuries we're talking about in the timeframes here. He didn't run into a tree or a mailbox, this isn't Looney Tunes.

 

[logicalgirl]

The neighbor saw TM over GZ on the ground. GZ did not have the injuries before TM and him collide. He has injuries consistent with getting punched. We know that TM and GZ have an encounter after TM confronts him as per State witness RJ.
She puts them together. And then there is a fight and GZ is injured.
HE had no time to make injuries on himself. His neighbor was out there almost immediately.

TM injured GZ. Even the state can not disprove that.

Unfortunately the defense can't prove it either - they can surmise it - but facts? Proof? No.

Whoops - brought up the Citizen's Patrol - turned it down - uh huh - cause he already had a job and was going to school...

IMO

 

[MeeBee]

I also have to say that I find it off putting when people refer to O'Mara as mom, lol. But that's JMO.

 

[Tricia]

Dear Websleuths Members,

Please remember we ARE NOT allowing discussion of the accusation concerning the Department of Justice.

Please remember to add, "In My Opinion" to your appropriate posts.

No Name Calling. Automatic 24 hour time out if you do.

THANK YOU for discussing this very hot case in a mature manner.

Tricia

 

[JusticeJunkie]

Nobody will ever tell LE what happened after this without talking to their attorney.
Nobody will ever give statements to LE even if they are innocent.
Nobody will want to be a NW participant.
Nobody will want to help anybody in their own neighborhood.

This case will have so many negative impacts on innocent peeps trying to help others.


IMO

 

[cityslick]

MOM has really revved it up now.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Why did he have to run home to be safe from being shot?

No one says he has to. But it goes to the fact he was not afraid that he did not. 4 mins is a long time. If he was afraid after losing GZ as he told RJ he would have gone home. HE DID NOT. He was not afraid of GZ. There is no proof at all of that and even more proof he was annoyed and irritated about GZ.

 

[Badlands]

That is just your putting thoughts in his head. He never tells RJ he is afraid and at one point she tells him to run and he says.. NAH. or NO.

That shows he was not afraid.

Wow, so I'm putting thoughts in his head and you're not?? Most 17 year old males wouldn't admit to a girl that they're afraid.

IMO

 

[FrayedKnot]

He had every right in the world to be on that sidewalk, however he did not have the right to attack another person on that sidewalk.
MOO :twocents::rockon:

Maybe he didn't attack anyone. Only two people know and one of them got dead.

 

[Isabelle]

The neighbor saw TM over GZ on the ground. GZ did not have the injuries before TM and him collide. He has injuries consistent with getting punched. We know that TM and GZ have an encounter after TM confronts him as per State witness RJ.
She puts them together. And then there is a fight and GZ is injured.
HE had no time to make injuries on himself. His neighbor was out there almost immediately.

TM injured GZ. Even the state can not disprove that.

Wonder what caused TM to say "get off, get off" as reported by RJ? IMO

 

[faefrost]

I get what you're saying and I agree that this is how our system does and should work.

But what I am reading in a few of these posts is that nobody saw TM lay a hand on GZ. So saying that GZ shot TM because he was being beaten isn't a fact, but the defendant's testimony. That isn't any more factual than Jodi Arias claiming self-defense. I mean, yes, it could have happened in GZ's case, but we really don't know. Only GZ says so. KWIM?

What really worries me is how easy it would be to just shoot someone, then give yourself a few superficial cuts and scrapes to support a self-defense claim (Darlie Routier sp?). Luckily, it doesn't always work.

I honestly don't know WHAT to think of this case or what to believe. But I do know if GZ had listened to the police, none of this would have happened. MOO

Actually they have at least one witness that did see TM laying a hand on GZ. We also have head and face trauma to GZ that could only have occurred before the gun was fired.

We don't know who started the violence. That is the key question. But that is the States burden to prove. From the defenses point they can show bodily harm to their client that occurred before he shot. This means that there is a reasonable possibility that it is self defense. The defense does not have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt. A reasonable explanation of the events with no conflicting evidence is sufficient.

 

[Jill-in-NV]

I'm going to ask again, cause I'm just an impatient old lady! LOL!

Does anyone know the possible/probable sentences for 2nd Degree Murder vs Manslaughter? Are they the same? Each have a gun enhancement, and what is that in terms of additional years? Will the jury be aware of the possible sentences?

Thank You! IMO!

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Unfortunately the defense can't prove it either - they can surmise it - but facts? Proof? No.

IMO

The defense does not have to prove anything. THE STATE DOES. IT IS THEIR CASE.

AND IF THEY CAN NOT PROVE IT, The state loses. That is the LAW.

THE LAW is all that matters.

 

[dog.gone.cute]

They are very busy writing...so I am wondering if they have a contract yet.

:twocents: Ah good point ... Yes, they probably already have that "contract" in place, and In My Opinion, for a lot of $$$$$

IMO MOO JMO

:moo:

 

[PaintingAnemone]

so interesting...... where it was always ''justice for travis'' and ''justice for caylee'' etc..... this thread is full of ''justice for GZ.'' i say: ''justice for trayvon.''

so interesting.....many of the folks complaining about BDLR's closing were all but proposing marriage to juan martinez. their styles are very similar. over the course of the trial, JM was far more confrontational and prone to yelling. it was called ''passion'' when he was doing it. is BDLR not allowed to be passionate, too? if JM were criticized on this board the person offering the criticism was all but begging for an onslaught. like i said....interesting.

MOM is putting me to sleep. he's a brilliant attorney. bc of the judge's rulings in this case, he also has an advantage that i personally consider unfair and unjust. the animation should not have been allowed. not a chance. i'm shocked by the decision to play it. still, MOM, with or without the video is certainly a great attorney. however, i find him to be so soft-spoken that he puts me to sleep.

i like passion. the last thing i would want is for an attorney to speak to me, were i a juror, as if we're in the middle of a pillow talk session. in a court of law, where such important issues are at stake, i like strong and forceful. i guess it's different for everyone.

all of above is MOO

Agreed. The two closings are actually quite similar in style, but suddenly some people are all ears because it's what they want to hear.

 

[William N]

Why did he have to run home to be safe from being shot?

IF TM was "afraid," as we are told, why didn't he run home? IMO TM doubled back and attacked GZ.

 

[EGirl]

Why did he have to run home to be safe from being shot?

He didn't have to run anywhere, he didn't have to go home. What he had to do to be safe from being shot was not attack someone who had a gun.

JMO IMO

 

[SilkySifaka]

I called it correctly in the CA case, because the state didn't prove much of anything, not to mention JA was snickering and laughing.

I will now call this case as GZ getting manslaughter, even though I believe he should be acquitted, because MOM is so low-key, like even he doesn't believe what he is saying. He has no passion, no conviction in his voice.

I hope I'm wrong, and this is only MY OPINION.

I can't believe it, someone who agrees with me on CA! They simply didn't prove the case BARD and the defense did bring up reasonable doubt. I understood the verdict even if I believe completely that she did it. That is emotional though on my part not legal.

I disagree with you on this case, i believe it was manslaughter but will call it an acquittal because the jury is going to feel sorry for GZ.

 

[cityslick]

Unfortunately the defense can't prove it either - they can surmise it - but facts? Proof? No.

Whoops - brought up the Citizen's Patrol - turned it down - uh huh - cause he already had a job and was going to school...

IMO

The defense doesn't have to prove it.

A lot of you guys have watched trials forever, this is trial 101, the defense doesn't have to prove their case, just reasonable doubt.

 

[lisasalinger]

By the time closings are given, I actually think jurors have made up their minds. The closing only seals the deal, one way or another. What I truly pray is that no one got to these jurors, that they were not intimidated or threatened or paid off. I absolutely believe it could happen, sequestration or not. I pray it did not. One can only wonder if the judge and prosecutors have already been dressed down by the powers that be. It was all over every news outlet last evening that the judges behavior was bizarre. That didn't come from me.

I hope everyone respects the jurors decision.

BBM

I love your positive thoughts But anybody who has been a juror and sat in that deliberations room will tell you that it's the exact opposite. A jury that knows exactly what they are going to do after closing statements is about as rare as a unicorn

I would give anything to be a fly on the wall with this jury. It won't be easy for them. I too will respect their decision and pray for their peace of mind afterwards.

IMO