George Zimmerman /Trayvon Martin General Discussion #14 Friday July 12

[nnglas]

You have to have evidence to PROVE That GZ killed TM and it was murder. You have to have proof. What you believe does not matter. IT really doesn't. Not without evidence to back it up.

There has to be proof to convict. It is that simple.

And again I said that I feel the evidence PROVES manslaughter. I think we should agree to disagree. I'm not changing your mind and you are not hanging mine. You think there is no evidence, I think there is. Doesn't make me or you wrong.

But getting on this forum and branding anyone who doesn't agree with you as emotional, is unfair.


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[missmazzy]

Florida is bracing for possible problems. I sure hope they are wrong! http://www.gainesville.com/article/...le=Florida-on-guard-for-post-Zimmerman-unrest

I hope everything is peaceful. I can't imagine becoming violent over a decision that as no effect on me personally. JMO.

 

[rose222]

The judge is zipping through these, I can't imagine that all the jurors are keeping up with her! She seems to have wanted to rush through this whole trial so I guess I shouldn't be surprised. IMO

She fumbles and mumbles when the words 'reasonable' and 'self-defense' come up. I'm biased against her, I know.

Imo.

 

[Isabelle]

Judge Nelson is reading these jury instructions so fast that I can't even keep up.

Of course, the jurors will receive a copy of these instructions.

Nevertheless, this judge, IMO, needs to slow down and read these instructions so they are clear and as if they are important to these proceedings.

How many times has she advised a witness to speak slowly so that the court reporter can transcribe?

MOO

Cause maybe she knows the jury will not be able to retain that much legalese anyway. That is why they have a copy with them during deliberation. MO

 

[gramcracker]

hope for the best, expect the worst, and deal with what comes

 

[faefrost]

Apartment complexes/condo facilities with any type of NW really should make it a point that residents let them know of a new family member or friend on the premises, so tragedies like this may be less likely to occur. It would just make sense to do this. IMO

This was compounded in this case because TM was a guest of his father, who was in turn a guest of his girlfriend, and not a resident of record.

 

[MeeBee]

And again I said that I feel the evidence PROVES manslaughter. I think we should agree to disagree. I'm not changing your mind and you are not hanging mine. You think there is no evidence, I think there is. Doesn't make me or you wrong.

But getting on this forum and branding anyone who doesn't agree with you as emotional, is unfair.


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I see hyped up emotions on both sides.

I see manslaughter as well. That's what the evidence presented shows me. It's not about emotion. That's MOO.

 

[cityslick]

But the crux of my "problem" is: " No one SAW the ENTIRE altercation. No one SAW who was following who." You have to ASSUME GZ was defending himself from a violent attack, you have to ASSUME TM ambushed him.
NO ONE WITNESSED IT.
I'm using MY observations of the pics of GZ face and head. For all I know, they look like the kick back from his weapon, and falling down when running.
We have to ASSUME GZ was hit in the face and smashed into the sidewalk multiple times and there are NO WITNESSES. All we have are the pics, the one in the squad car, he obviously has one side of his nose "packed" to stop any bleeding. I'm not talking about GZ's emotions, I'm talking about actual facts.
No one KNOWS that GZ's head was repeatedly slammed into the concrete.
No one KNOWS TM repeatedly punched GZ in the face.
No one witnessed the entire situation and in my opinion, GZ's "wounds" do NOT represent being repeatedly slammed into the concrete and punched in the face.
We do not KNOW that GZ did NOT break any laws.
Either way, there's going to have to be a lot of assumptions, NOT FACT.
That's just where MY thinking is at.....
IMO, JMO, MOO.

But there is evidence that GZ sustained injuries as well as evidence that GZ was on his back and TM was on him. This isn't assumption, there is evidence that supports that theory.

 

[glamourkitty1922]

But the crux of my "problem" is: " No one SAW the ENTIRE altercation. No one SAW who was following who." You have to ASSUME GZ was defending himself from a violent attack, you have to ASSUME TM ambushed him.
NO ONE WITNESSED IT.
I'm using MY observations of the pics of GZ face and head. For all I know, they look like the kick back from his weapon, and falling down when running.
We have to ASSUME GZ was hit in the face and smashed into the sidewalk multiple times and there are NO WITNESSES. All we have are the pics, the one in the squad car, he obviously has one side of his nose "packed" to stop any bleeding. I'm not talking about GZ's emotions, I'm talking about actual facts.
No one KNOWS that GZ's head was repeatedly slammed into the concrete.
No one KNOWS TM repeatedly punched GZ in the face.
No one witnessed the entire situation and in my opinion, GZ's "wounds" do NOT represent being repeatedly slammed into the concrete and punched in the face.
We do not KNOW that GZ did NOT break any laws.
Either way, there's going to have to be a lot of assumptions, NOT FACT.
That's just where MY thinking is at.....
IMO, JMO, MOO.

I've shot that type of gun before, it doesn't kick much. Even a 10 gauge shotgun or a 30-06 wouldn't do that much damage to his nose, mouth, and the back of his head. I've seen recoil injuries. They don't cover the entire face and back of head!

:twocents::twocents::twocents::twocents::twocents:MOO

 

[JeannaT]

I think everyone already knew that. IMO. But that doesn't mean presume they're innocent always. It means does the evidence back up them being innocent.

Meebee, you might have missed the prior discussion where it was asserted that GZ can't be assumed to be innocent because everyone knows he pulled the trigger.

IMHO


BTW, for this discussion - this case isn't about finding GZ innocent or guilty, it's about finding him guilty of the charges or not guilty of the charges. There's no legal finding of "innocence".

IMHO

 

[JusticeJunkie]

Kathi Belich, WFTV ‏@KBelichWFTV 15m
@marcusdnice "@DanaChaabanWFTV After jury instructions read, jury deliberates, alternates dismissed, won't join final 6 #zimmermanon9


WOW - they are dismissed?? What happens if something happens with the 6 deliberating?


IMO

 

[ShadyLady]

I believe the burden is on the neighborhood watch. They are supposed to ask questions, like "Who are you visiting?" etc, not just assume someone is a lawbreaker because they don't recognize them. That certainly would keep tragedies like this from happening as well as not allowing NW people to carry guns.

They are instructed NOT TO by LE. iirc.

 

[JusticeJunkie]

Judge Nelson is reading these jury instructions so fast that I can't even keep up.

Of course, the jurors will receive a copy of these instructions.

Nevertheless, this judge, IMO, needs to slow down and read these instructions so they are clear and as if they are important to these proceedings.

How many times has she advised a witness to speak slowly so that the court reporter can transcribe?

MOO

Kathi Belich, WFTV ‏@KBelichWFTV 8m
Given the speed with which the judge is reading jury instructions, it will likely take well under an hour. #Zimmermanon9




haha - she agrees with you.

IMO

 

[Isabelle]

It never came out--- but I was waiting to hear if the community had signs out stating there was a NW...if not they should have. IMO

Would love to know what the video tapes showed. Only 2 out of 9 cameras at the complex were not working. Wondering if it would have been to prejudicial to either side to show this? Kind of strange. MO

 

[Love Never Fails]

Every jury trial I've been on had the judge give the instructions and we were given a written copy while deliberating.

MOO, I've been on so many jury trials I can't remember if all of the judges gave us written instructions.:bang:

Hi glamour, you said you have been on many juries. Do you mind if I ask what you think the jury's decision will be and if you think they will come to an unanimous agreement easily?

 

[MeeBee]

Meebee, you might have missed the prior discussion where it was asserted that GZ can't be assumed to be innocent because everyone knows he pulled the trigger.

IMHO


BTW, for this discussion - this case isn't about finding GZ innocent or guilty, it's about finding him guilty of the charges or not guilty of the charges. There's no legal finding of "innocence".

IMHO

I suppose I did.

More semantics.

 

[faefrost]

Florida is bracing for possible problems. I sure hope they are wrong! http://www.gainesville.com/article/...le=Florida-on-guard-for-post-Zimmerman-unrest

I hate to say it. But there is probably a large number of "flash mobs" that are planning to do some late night partying and shopping regardless of any actual verdict. It's an excuse, nt a cause.

 

[dani]

You are correct. The meaning refers to the man who 'cracked' the whip on the plantations keeping the slaves in line. Funny thing to me though is that when I think of raceism, I think of white vs black. GZ was Hispanic right. Just to me demonstrates the racism against some races without even confirmation. Is that not profiling? jmo

Oh, Wow! I didn't know that was the origination of the term. I actually thought it was "cracker" and they called us that because we are WHITE like a CRACKER. :blushing:

Thanks for "edifying" (shades of Jodi Arias) me! :seeya:

 

[cityslick]

Kathi Belich, WFTV ‏@KBelichWFTV 15m
@marcusdnice "@DanaChaabanWFTV After jury instructions read, jury deliberates, alternates dismissed, won't join final 6 #zimmermanon9


WOW - they are dismissed?? What happens if something happens with the 6 deliberating?


IMO

Mistrial I assume.

 

[MeeBee]

Kathi Belich, WFTV ‏@KBelichWFTV 15m
@marcusdnice "@DanaChaabanWFTV After jury instructions read, jury deliberates, alternates dismissed, won't join final 6 #zimmermanon9


WOW - they are dismissed?? What happens if something happens with the 6 deliberating?


IMO

I think dismissed was the wrong word. They are probably dismissed from deliberating like in the JA trial but will be left on call in case one of the deliberating jurors falls out.