George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin General discussion #2

[Tenaciousdae]

Really, I think he was just trying to see if he could point Police in the right area. And it depends on the officer.

I think if there is crime going on in an area and someone is willing to help them in a reasonable way they are more than happy to get that help.

I do understand what you are saying. Many people choose not to help provide witness accounts and such.

But the LE never wants citizens to apprehend, or put themselves in danger, and never to incite more conflict...the LE has earned the badge to do that.

Just my opinion, and I really do respect yours! :seeya:

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

This was a day of good evidence but I think that the defense came out ahead. Even with the PROS, witnesses.

 

[iluvmua]

she signed the change.org petition???

This one?

http://www.change.org/petitions/prosecute-the-killer-of-our-son-17-year-old-trayvon-martin

 

[popsicle]

wow...what a productive day this was.

 

[MeeBee]

I think that it is hard because some people want to say " Well if GZ would not have gotten out of his truck... "

But the flip side is " IF TM had continued straight home he would not have been there either"

They probably both could have done some thing differently and we would never know who they were because TM would have been home.

BUT they both made choices that ended up in them meeting in the dark and fighting and then the terrible shot.

Exactly. So does that mean George should be completely exonerated since some of his actions led up to the events of that night? That is where I'm at right now.

Did they simply misunderstand each other's intentions? Did Trayvon simply decide to fight George because that's how he has learned to handle people that upset him or wrong him and he did feel threatened by him? I don't think it necessarily means Trayvon was up to no good. The tape from the 7-11 was significant to me. It shows Trayvon meandering a little and that can seem suspicious. But he didn't do anything wrong. Possible same sort of thing happened while he was walking home and GZ jumped to conclusions. It was possibly a horrible misunderstanding gone really wrong.

What a sad case.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I do understand what you are saying. Many people choose not to help provide witness accounts and such.

But the LE never wants citizens to apprehend, or put themselves in danger, and never to incite more conflict...the LE has earned the badge to do that.

Just my opinion, and I really do respect yours! :seeya:

Yet we do have citizen arrest laws and rules. So that is hard to say.. No citizen has a right to apprehend or detain when there is a way to do it legally.

How often are people lauded on tv for holding off a suspect or detaining them until police arrived.

IT is a big gray area if you ask me.

 

[Irisha]

I disagree. My 80-something mother often tells me that she doesn't need my help. I have to practically pry the laundry basket away from her to carry it upstairs. "Stop" means stop. "I don't need you to do that" could mean anything.

Big difference................

GZ knew what was allowed and not allowed in NW. He didn't need anyone to tell him we don't need you to do that. He knew he wasn't supposed to follow or confront anyone. And the police didn't need his help. Eyes and ears, call police.

 

[Words2Serve]

With this case, I seem to be having a harder time than usual distinguishing between fact and assumption/opinion. I did just start a diet (again!), so maybe I just have low blood sugar causing my brain to be foggy. Is it just me???

oooohhh fognesia....problems with your hippocampus... paging Dr. Samuels

 

[gxm]

Wow. I'm stunned. Did the state not know about her FB page??? And she was clearly trying to avoid answering O'Mara's question.

 

[iluvmua]

Exactly. So does that mean George should be completely exonerated since some of his actions led up to the events of that night? That is where I'm at right now.

Did they simply misunderstand each other's intentions? Did Trayvon simply decide to fight George because that's how he has learned to handle people that upset him or wrong him and he did feel threatened by him? I don't think it necessarily means Trayvon was up to no good. The tape from the 7-11 was significant to me. It shows Trayvon meandering a little and that can seem suspicious. But he didn't do anything wrong. Possible same sort of thing happened while he was walking home and GZ jumped to conclusions. It was possibly a horrible misunderstanding gone really wrong.

What a sad case.

I agree.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Exactly. So does that mean George should be completely exonerated since some of his actions led up to the events of that night? That is where I'm at right now.

Did they simply misunderstand each other's intentions? Did Trayvon simply decide to fight George because that's how he has learned to handle people that upset him or wrong him and he did feel threatened by him? I don't think it necessarily means Trayvon was up to no good. The tape from the 7-11 was significant to me. It shows Trayvon meandering a little and that can seem suspicious. But he didn't do anything wrong. Possible same sort of thing happened while he was walking home and GZ jumped to conclusions. It was possibly a horrible misunderstanding gone really wrong.

What a sad case.

For me. It does. At this point the state has not proved the GZ went out there searching for TM to kill him. He is on trial for second degree murder. I don't see that here. Not at all.

Again I am open if the state can prove it.

 

[RabidBadger]

Having worked in trauma critical care for years, GZ's injuries appear to me to be superficial and inconsistent with the alleged bashing of his head on concrete. Believable if a three year old girl were the alleged attacker, maybe.

Superficial scalp injuries tend to bleed profusely. I'm not seeing anything consistent with having your head bashed or significant facial trauma, nothing. In fact the photos are striking to me in terms of the lack of injury.

Before anyone freaks out, this is simply my opinion and I have no dog in this race.

 

[m00c0w]

It is fully documented, otherwise it would just be speculation and heresy, as is the case with Martin. Do you really consider his documented record of violence to be unnoteworthy? He assaulted a cop, and apparently didn't mind smacking up his girlfriend. Do you have anything official that says Martin has a record of violence? No.

And if the conviction were all that mattered, you wouldn't be trying to claim some random tweets are evidence of full-on behavior.

There is no documented record of violence. This is the entire premise I'm trying to get across.

A conviction of "resisting a police officer without violence" is not a violent crime.

A civil issue in which a bilateral restraining order was issued also calls into question the claims of violence. There was no police record, and no legitimate, actual documentation of the violent activities alleged. It ended with both individuals being given a restraining order against each other.

 

[MeeBee]

A double standard in reference to what? I have stated repeatedly that I don't think either party's history has anything to do with that night. I agree that it's a double standard to only look at Zimmerman's records and discount the reasons Martin was even with his dad's girlfriend to begin with.

Well, with one you have the presumption of being violent and being a bad kid. With the other, you have a legitimate record. Being suspended from school is hardly a record. Kids get suspended for all kinds of things.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Wow. I'm stunned. Did the state not know about her FB page??? And she was clearly trying to avoid answering O'Mara's question.

That reminded me of the moment that Juan pulled out the bank statement showing the third receipt for gas cans...

 

[Bernina]

:nono:

This is not a "clear, documented police record of violence".

You have a civil case in which the police were never involved in, and was resolved with both sides receiving restraining orders - essentially he said, she said.

Then you have charges that were lessened in court to a non-violent offense, of which he was convicted. What he was charged with doesn't matter. You can charge someone with anything. The conviction is all that matters. And then the charge was subsequently expunged after he met certain requirements and stayed out of trouble for a prescribed period of time, because he was a first-time offender.

<modsnip>

GZ's father or step father is a Judge, isn't he? Do we know if this has anything to do with charges being reduced, dropped, or the dual restraining orders?

 

[MeeBee]

For me. It does. At this point the state has not proved the GZ went out there searching for TM to kill him. He is on trial for second degree murder. I don't see that here. Not at all.

Again I am open if the state can prove it.

I don't see murder either. But does he get fully exonerated for his participation in that night? There are lesser included offenses, aren't there?

 

[Tricia]

PLEASE DO NOT GET PERSONAL

PRETTY PLEASE DO NOT GET PERSONAL

PRETTY PLEASE WITH SUGAR ON TOP DO NOT GET PERSONAL


Thank you,
Tricia

 

[lil_buddy]

Exactly. So does that mean George should be completely exonerated since some of his actions led up to the events of that night? That is where I'm at right now.

Did they simply misunderstand each other's intentions? Did Trayvon simply decide to fight George because that's how he has learned to handle people that upset him or wrong him and he did feel threatened by him? I don't think it necessarily means Trayvon was up to no good. The tape from the 7-11 was significant to me. It shows Trayvon meandering a little and that can seem suspicious. But he didn't do anything wrong. Possible same sort of thing happened while he was walking home and GZ jumped to conclusions. It was possibly a horrible misunderstanding gone really wrong.

What a sad case.

<modsnip> strong possibility of deadly "misunderstanding"

TM was simply in the wrong place @ the wrong time.

 

[jojomonkey]

Big difference................

GZ knew what was allowed and not allowed in NW. He didn't need anyone to tell him we don't need you to do that. He knew he wasn't supposed to follow or confront anyone. And the police didn't need his help. Eyes and ears, call police.

Exactly.

IMO GZ would never have so brazenly continued to pursue TM if he didn't have a weapon on him, he felt powerful having it, like a cop. No way would he have confronted TM without being armed. He was taking the law into his own hands, untrained and unprepared for the consequences. If TM was coming at GZ, why weren't they closer to the truck? GZ pursued him on foot, that is clear.