George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin General discussion #3

[nnglas]

I said I was going to stop posting. Lol!! Question, I thought there was no dispute that TM was on top of GZ, but the witnesses seem to be saying something different. Is there a dispute about who was on top?


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[m00c0w]

Could well be. At least we know for sure who shot him so far, there has not been any evidence that TM provoked a fight much less a bullet.

Except for the injuries all over Zimmerman's head, right?

 

[kimlynn]

first she said she did not even know if it was a man or a woman. Then she said she thought the person on top was bigger, then she said she had no idea about how big GZ and TM were at the time and then she said she learned how big TM was from photos so she assumed the guy on top was GZ.

The picture she used to decide that TM was about 11-13 at the time the pics were taking.

When first asked she said she used the hoodie pic of TM and later said she also saw the football pic of TM.
So her first comment when asked was she used the hoodie pic to judge the sz of TM.
Not sure if it matters as she said she saw them both after the shot was fired and according to GZ in one of his conversations with police,he did straddle the back of TM after he fired his gun to further restrain Martin.So he was at one point on top of TM.
IMO

 

[katiewonders]

Whether GZ was within his rights to follow a kid he thought was suspicious seemingly appears moot. The question for me is, why did GZ have to have a gun at the ready. Why didn't he just stay back and let TM continue on his way home. So what if TM stopped on the common area grass. GZ did his NW thing by notifying the police. Confrontation was unnecessary. A 17 year old was shot and killed. None of this needed to happen.

Personally, I cannot decide if GZ is innocent or guilty as it applies to FL law. I am waiting for all the evidence to come in and have both sides present their case. As a mother, and if TM was my child, I would be going for the jugular. Fortunately, I am not in his parent's shoes.

BBM Thank you, I could not agree with you more. I think GZ should have just waited in his truck for the cops. I would get an attitude if someone approached me to ask me why I was in the neighborhood. That's exactly why I think NW and Citizens on Patrol (COP) volunteers should not approach anyone. All JMO

 

[cityslick]

according to GZ, all we have is what GZ says about TM, much of it not very flattering,

So GZ was lying when he said TM started running? I'm confused why he would.

 

[DEPUTYDAWG]

He had a gun ready because he, like most concealed carry permit holders, carried one with him when he went out. There is nothing wrong with this.

What says he didn't stay at what he thought was a distance, and it turns out Martin was hiding or much closer than he thought?

He may have had a gun on him (legally so)...but I wouldn't classify him as having a "gun ready" that evening...as there obviously was a physical fight before the shot. And the key missing factor is how the fight began...for example, did TM jump GZ as he came around a corner? Or, did GZ see TM and tackle him first? i don't think we know, right? And the prosecution has admitted they don't know who started the physical fight. If we don't know that, then all we are currently doing is speculating and giving our opinions. We don't know the true facts. Maybe they'll come out in the trial, but maybe not. And that is sad.

So...there was a fight, clearly. At some point during the fight, GZ shot TM. That to me doesn't sound like GZ was "gun ready" in the literal meaning. Maybe other posters mean GZ was kinda trigger happy, as they say? We truly don't know.

JMO and MOO

 

[Linda7NJ]

Except for the injuries all over Zimmerman's head, right?

]


My cat has come home with more serious injuries from a night out.

All IMO

 

[GetToTheTruthNow]

I am surprised the state used her as a witness.

O mara is doing a great job.

I agree. Other than the knock-knock joke, Omara and West have been making the better points.

 

[claudicici]

Going home is not smart...if you are being followed.

Where else was he supposed to go? He was on foot. He was in a residential neighborhood. He knew this guy had a truck somewhere nearby.

Blaming TM for his death because he wasn't at home...is well, I will stop myself there. I like chatting with y'all during the trial. LOL!!

Remember, GZ thought TM was "up to no good" and "on drugs" and "something was wrong with him".

But TM knew he was innocent and doing nothing wrong...so he thought GZ was just following him for some unknown reason. Which puts him on the defensive.

IMO, GZ's actions that night put TM on the defense. Which means he was defending himself from an unknown threat. And you can't claim you are defending yourself from someone defending themselves.

I think what also plays a part is that TM probably did not want to look like a coward in front of his girlfriend.He already told her he was not going to run he was going to walk fast so maybe he thought he'll be brave and confront the guy and ask him what he wants.Just speculation but maybe since GZ did not tell him he was neighborhood watch ,who knows what he said?

 

[Lovelymountains]

Individuals say that if Zimmerman never got out of his car, this wouldn't have happened.

By that same logic, if Martin had just gone home, this wouldn't have happened.

You (not you, personally) can't have your cake and eat it, too.

But Trayvon was not interacting with GZ at all, just walking home in the rain. It was GZ who got out of his vehicle and aggressively (IMO) confronted Trayvon. It also makes a difference, at least to me, that Trayvon ended up dead. It was GZ who caused the death. Trayvon was passive in the situation until followed by and perhaps confronted by GZ, IMO.

 

[gxm]

I cannot for the life of me figure out why the state would put today's witnesses on the stand.

The only thing that I can come up with is that they've got nothing. Either that or they're just playing rope-a-dope.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

When first asked she said she used the hoodie pic of TM and later said she also saw the football pic of TM.
So her first comment when asked was she used the hoodie pic to judge the sz of TM.
Not sure if it matters as she said she saw them both after the shot was fired and according to GZ in one of his conversations with police,he did straddle the back of TM after he fired his gun to further restrain Martin.So he was at one point on top of TM.
IMO

She said she saw nothing but shadows, Then she said she saw a bigger guy on top. Then she said she had no idea that night who was bigger but that when she saw the pictures of TM on TV in the hoodie and the football one that she deduced that GZ was the bigger one.

 

[AngelWings444]

It seems to me the defense attorneys are doing their best to confuse he witnesses and put words in their mouths. I suppose the prosecutors will do the same.
I can see why people don't come forward to report crimes. I wouldn't want to have to endure that when I was doing my best to tell the truth.
The supposition seems to be that every witness is lying.

....not only in this trial

JMO

Seems like the witnesses are on trial. Pretty sad. I feel bad for them. These are every day people, who witnessed a horrible event. They shouldn't all be treated like liars. JMO

ETA: I feel like they are being talked down to.

 

[Karmady]

I said I was going to stop posting. Lol!! Question, I thought there was no dispute that TM was on top of GZ, but the witnesses seem to be saying something different. Is there a dispute about who was on top?


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She said the bigger person was on top but she based that solely on the pics of trayvon when he was 4-5 years younger than he was that night. To this day she hasn't seen a recent picture of Trayvon.

eta: for the mods, I listening to the live stream. Not my opinion

 

[cityslick]

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My cat has come home with more serious injuries from a night out.

All IMO

When you're not used to being in fights and you have someone on top of you trying to hit you, let me know how long it takes for fear to take hold of you, regardless of what injuries you are actually sustaining.

 

[cityslick]

But Trayvon was not interacting with GZ at all, just walking home in the rain. It was GZ who got out of his vehicle and aggressively (IMO) confronted Trayvon. It also makes a difference, at least to me, that Trayvon ended up dead. It was GZ who caused the death. Trayvon was passive in the situation until followed by and perhaps confronted by GZ, IMO.

The problem with this trial is none of this can be proven because there is no evidence for it.

 

[PrincessSezMe]

I suspect the direction the blood is flowing in is related to the fact that he continued bleeding after he stood up.

But then take a look at photo #51. It shows a line of blood down near his mouth. You can almost trace that blood from where it stops at the back of his ear, along his jaw line and down all the way to his mouth. I don't think they cleaned him up completely at the scene. JMHO though.

 

[AngelWings444]

Ouch...

Question: the person who was on top was the one who got up, right?

Answer: Yes!

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

We have people coming back already?

 

[joe jones]

So GZ was lying when he said TM started running? I'm confused why he would.

I never said he was lying, but we have no evidence to corroborate TM was doing the things GZ said he was,

so it is all opinion as to whether you believe GZ was being truth full,

and having watched GZ recreation of the crime for the police I have doubts over the veracity of GZ