George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin General discussion #3

[SassyMom]

LovelyMountains, do you think it's immoral to own and carry concealed a firearm? Or is his gun ownership a non-issue, meaning the immorality was to not stay in his car? Just curious, not stating anything pro or con either way.

 

[nnglas]

When you're not used to being in fights and you have someone on top of you trying to hit you, let me know how long it takes for fear to take hold of you, regardless of what injuries you are actually sustaining.

I thought GZ was an MMA fighter, or in training or something?


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[Linda7NJ]

When you're not used to being in fights and you have someone on top of you trying to hit you, let me know how long it takes for fear to take hold of you, regardless of what injuries you are actually sustaining.

IMO there is zero evidence that GZ was on the bottom having his head slammed into the concrete. GZ has a boo boo...
TM is no where near the concrete.
GZ has already been proven a liar.

IMO

 

[m00c0w]

But Trayvon was not interacting with GZ at all, just walking home in the rain. It was GZ who got out of his vehicle and aggressively (IMO) confronted Trayvon. It also makes a difference, at least to me, that Trayvon ended up dead. It was GZ who caused the death. Trayvon was passive in the situation until followed by and perhaps confronted by GZ, IMO.

He's no longer being passive if he starts a fight, would you agree?

 

[Horace Finklestein]

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My cat has come home with more serious injuries from a night out.

All IMO

I don't think it's ok for TM to have injured him in any way. jmo. TM created a horrible situation by doing so.

 

[gxm]

When you're not used to being in fights and you have someone on top of you trying to hit you, let me know how long it takes for fear to take hold of you, regardless of what injuries you are actually sustaining.

From personal experience, I can tell you that the fear consumes you as soon as you realize that the sound you're hearing is your own head being slammed into a hard surface. In that respect, I find GZ's story extremely believable. JMO, OMO, MOO.

 

[Words2Serve]

All I can say at this point is had GZ stayed in his vehicle and waited for LE to arrive and do "their" job as instructed. We wouldn't even be here. So very sad.

Had TM not gone to 7-11, had GZ not decided to go to Target at the exact moment, none of this would have happened either, but unfortunately these two people tragically had their worlds collide.

For those who feel the evidence shows GZ had prejudice and/or 'followed' TM with spite and readiness to catch and kill so 'they do not all get away' he will be guilty of murder.

For those who feel the evidence shows two guys whose paths finally met up, a confrontation occurred, and they are unable to determine who started the altercation, and how or why the shot was actually fired it will be manslaughter and

For those who feel the evidence shows it was a case of GZ doing his job, or keeping an eye out to help police locate someone, based on recent break-ins, appeared suspicious, was confronted by TM, who began to beat him to the point of fearing for his life, and felt firing his weapon was his only hope of surviving the situation will believe self-defense.

It seems there is a lot of 'assumptions' that are going to have to be made with some of the witness testimony, and perceptions of how GZ and TM actually got to the point of confrontation.

Just thinking out loud

 

[sorrell skye]

This witness (Manalo) earlier testified that she didn't see what went on immediately after the gun shot.

Now, she just testified that the person on top was the person who got up.

IMO, I think these two statements are in conflict, since she also testified that, at the time of the fight (before the gunshot), she wasn't able to identify either person, and reported seeing "shadows".

 

[Chester_from_THM]

So GZ was lying when he said TM started running? I'm confused why he would.

Perhaps to make him seem more suspicious to the dispatcher? To add to his characterization of TM as possibly 'on drugs', 'something's off with him' 'reaching into his waistband', 'staring me down'.

IMO, GZ was setting TM up for a fall, in one respect or another. He must have known that using those descriptors would put the responding LE on high alert.

I mean, GZ essentially was reporting TM as 'armed and dangerous' though not in those exact words.

IMO, this could be seem as setting up justification for GZ to pursue him and ultimately harm or kill him. I realize he is not charged w/1st degree murder, I am just saying I could see it that way.

 

[Linda7NJ]

I don't think it's ok for TM to have injured him in any way. jmo. TM created a horrible situation by doing so.

By minding his own business walking home from the store in the rain?

 

[miimaa]

GZ made 47 calls to LE. He knew how to act on the phone when reporting things. He knew he was being recorded. He knew not to give his address and always gave the clubhouse address. Obviously, he didn't follow the rules as he followed Trayvon. His "job" was to contact LE and make a report, not take matters into his own hands. In addition, just because someone is calm in their phone calls, doesn't mean they don't have some type of rage issues inside. Clearly, saying these "F'ing Punks always get away" is not calm. JMO

Where does this info come from?

"During the 18 months preceding the February 26 shooting, Zimmerman called the non-emergency police line seven times."

"Twin Lakes residents said there were dozens of reports of attempted break-ins, which had created an atmosphere of fear in their neighborhood"

"In September 2011, the Twin Lakes residents held an organizational meeting to create a neighborhood watch program. Zimmerman was selected by neighbors as the program's coordinator"

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Trayvon_Martin"]Shooting of Trayvon Martin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

 

[JudyBolton]

first she said she did not even know if it was a man or a woman. Then she said she thought the person on top was bigger, then she said she had no idea about how big GZ and TM were at the time and then she said she learned how big TM was from photos so she assumed the guy on top was GZ.

The picture she used to decide that TM was about 11-13 at the time the pics were taking.

I don't know why they are going on and on about who was on top.... the DT has substantial forensic evidence to prove TM was on top (imo) - they have an expert that will explain the hole in the hoodie, the path of the bullet, etc. etc. could only have been from that position. Meanwhile... the prosecution has these ill prepared witnesses (imo) who keep changing their testimony .

Question - if I have jmo in my signature - do I still need to keep posting it with every statement? - thanks I'm new

 

[m00c0w]

IMO there is zero evidence that GZ was on the bottom having his head slammed into the concrete. GZ has a boo boo...
TM is no where near the concrete.
GZ has already been proven a liar.

IMO

Battery is battery, which is illegal.

 

[nnglas]

I don't think it's ok for TM to have injured him in any way. jmo. TM created a horrible situation by doing so.

IMO I disagree with that. According to GZ account of what happen I think that an argument can be made that TM was in fear when he hit GZ.


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[m00c0w]

By minding his own business walking home from the store in the rain?

By breaking Zimmerman's nose and repeatedly bashing his head on the sidewalk, which is evident by the injuries sustained that night.

IMO

 

[DIBSY]

I don't see how if your objectionable, no matter what side your one, how this witness is helping the state in any way.

Agreed. Perchance her husband would be or will be a better witness. She doesnt seem to help either side, other than just maybe, somethings re Sequence of events.

 

[corundogs]

I lost my feed...on two different links!

Anyone else? Or do I just need to check others?

 

[kimlynn]

How did he know GZ was following him, he started running before GZ even got out of the car?

Wasn't he tracking Martin while still in his car? Possibly slowing down behind Martin and at least keeping his eyes on him.
At any rate according to the gf of Martin,he was aware of GZ and wondered why he was being watched by him.
I'm curious why Martin ran.I've had it in the back of my mind that GZ may have made a movement while in his car that was gun related.
IMO

 

[GetToTheTruthNow]

Whether GZ was within his rights to follow a kid he thought was suspicious seemingly appears moot. The question for me is, why did GZ have to have a gun at the ready. Why didn't he just stay back and let TM continue on his way home. So what if TM stopped on the common area grass. GZ did his NW thing by notifying the police. Confrontation was unnecessary. A 17 year old was shot and killed. None of this needed to happen.

Personally, I cannot decide if GZ is innocent or guilty as it applies to FL law. I am waiting for all the evidence to come in and have both sides present their case. As a mother, and if TM was my child, I would be going for the jugular. Fortunately, I am not in his parent's shoes.[/QUOTE]


BBM Thank you, I could not agree with you more. I think GZ should have just waited in his truck for the cops. I would get an attitude if someone approached me to ask me why I was in the neighborhood. That's exactly why I think NW and Citizens on Patrol (COP) volunteers should not approach anyone. All JMO

Well GZ had a permit to carry the gun and it wasn't at "the ready", in fact he sustained a substantial beating before firing the gun.

I think GZ called the cops, dispatch asked "where is he running to" Zimmerman got out his car to see where TM was heading. As Zimmerman was at the top of the "T" intersection and started to walk back--Martin , running 'left to right'----asked Zimmerman "why are you following me?", Zimmerman asked "Are you from around here?" Martin got angry and then started fighting and had him on the ground bashing his head and breaking his nose. Zimmerman shot him in chest, Zimmerman removed himself and Martin fell forward on his stomach. Zimmerman then got on top in case Martin was going to continue to fight.

 

[m00c0w]

IMO I disagree with that. According to GZ account of what happen I think that an argument can be made that TM was in fear when he hit GZ.


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Let's look at the relevant Florida law:

776.012 Use of force in defense of person.—A person is justified in using force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other’s imminent use of unlawful force.​

Watching someone from a distance is not an "imminent use of unlawful force".

:moo: