George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin General discussion #4

[PaintingAnemone]

*FACTS*
GZ did say TM said that when he saw GZs gun and reached for it.

GZ also claims TM said "You got me" when he was shot in the heart.

*MOO*
I believe neither of those, they just both sound so absurd and I can not see TM using those kinds of words in that situation.

Like you, I believe none of that. It's the most melodramatic bit of hogwash imaginable.

GZ also says TM approached him saying, ""What the [expletive][is] your problem,[ modsnip]?"
But in his written statement, suddenly it changes to, "You got a problem?" We now know TM said none of that, simply asking why he was being followed.

GZ also claimed that TM told him to "shut the f$&k up," and claims to have yelled for help repeatedly and that it's him on the tape screaming right before the gun goes off, but apparently he did this with a hand over his mouth, because that's the point that he says TM covered his mouth and nose, and started reaching for his gun (while holding down a struggling man AND covering his mouth and nose?). Oh, and apparently TM talks like a movie villain, because he sinisterly says, "You're gonna die tonight, mother-effer." Who knew that "get off, get off" sounded like "you're gonna die tonight"? I didn't.

 

[corundogs]

How do you know he did not say those things?

JMO

A bullet exploded his heart. I believe that is instant death. How do you say "You got me" when you are dead?

If I am wrong, so be it. But that is my understanding.

 

[jjenny]

I'm a bit more sympathetic to this kid. I think her reasoning that she didn't want to say certain things in front of Trayvon's mother that might hurt her makes sense to me. It also makes sense (to me) that if she is in a closet (???) on the phone she would want to make the call short and sweet.

She is a KID. The "whateva" attitude is pretty prevalent in that age range.

In other words (and this is JMHO) she doesn't lie just for the sake of lying -- she either lies to protect someone's feelings or to do as little as she has to in order to get out of a situation. She is "shades of grey."

All in all her testimony is pretty consistent -- again MHO, and I remember that she is a kid and one with limited sophistication and education.

She is legally an adult. Not a kid. When does someone stops being a kid nowdays?

 

[Chester_from_THM]

A total turn around from the Alexander trial where there was a side bar, what seemed like every two minutes.

Exactly, legalm. I suffered through that whole trial and the number of sidebars was absurd. The only good thing is now getting to see/hear some of what was going on during them.

I guess it is just a style thing, whether a judge is going to allow sidebars. But I have watched a lot of trials, and other than the Casey Anthony trial, have found that sidebars are pretty rare.

I think I saw one in the whole Abaroa trial.

 

[legalmania]

Does anyone know how far it is from the entrance to Trayvons' step mothers house?

 

[corundogs]

I went back and listened to GZ's 911 call, he says 'he's running' and - counting to 20 - the call ends after the operator says they don't need him to do that (follow TM).

Running for what seemed like 20 seconds.

It doesn't end at them saying he doesn't need to follow. I know it goes on longer...and someone checked and it went on for 90 more seconds.

 

[Chester_from_THM]

I don't understand why the judge doesn't simply direct this witness to speak up, speak clearly, and be done with it. Why should it be up to the attorney? It's the judges courtroom, her discretion.

Gracie, the judge has said this numerous times. It seems to work for a time, and then the witness seems to forget and slide back into mumbling.

 

[PaperDoll]

I agree. Either way, her testimony is worthless, imo

I don't think her testimony is worthless at all, she is answering his questions, but she is getting tired, like I am, of answering the same thing over and over again. She can't say anything else that will add or subtract to her testimony. Again, if she were lying about her conversation with TM, she would have lied ever further and not have said the phone hung up. The defense is trying to trip her up and confuse her, and yet IMO she has told him what happened and that won't change.

 

[Boodles]

Does anyone know how far it is from the entrance to Trayvons' step mothers house?

Great Q, I want to know the answer, too.

 

[Horace Finklestein]

I'm a bit more sympathetic to this kid. I think her reasoning that she didn't want to say certain things in front of Trayvon's mother that might hurt her makes sense to me. It also makes sense (to me) that if she is in a closet (???) on the phone she would want to make the call short and sweet.

She is a KID. The "whateva" attitude is pretty prevalent in that age range.

In other words (and this is JMHO) she doesn't lie just for the sake of lying -- she either lies to protect someone's feelings or to do as little as she has to in order to get out of a situation. She is "shades of grey."

All in all her testimony is pretty consistent -- again MHO, and I remember that she is a kid and one with limited sophistication and education.

Seriously? She's 19. She's legally an adult. The earlier witness who actually was a kid did quite well imo. She lies because she is mad at people asking her questions and has no sense or respect for anything beyond herself imo. I'm not seeing shades of grey being applicable, these are extremely simple and basic questions...I'd respectfully say that if she can't understand or process them, she probably doesn't need to be swaying a murder trial. There's too much at stake.

I don't understand the reasoning here that if lots of teens do something, that means it's ok? I know the trend seems to be to minimize any offensive/racist/untruthful/illegal behavior by Rachel or TM but why? jmo I don't see it as funny or cute or understandable. This is not a formula for success in life imo

 

[Karmady]

I totally disagree, he shot an unarmed young person to death. He cost the HOA a million dollars, which means the people who live there fees will go up. He was only a neighborhood watch person. His job was to watch not follow or take the law into his own hands. He had certain rules to follow and chose not to follow them. I know I don't want a neighborhood hood watch person who's going to shoot people walking home minding their own business, in my neighborhood. I'm glad we have police patrolling our neighborhood daily and the worst thing that's happened here is some teens broke into vacant houses and made holes in the walls. Costing the home owners thousands. The HOA has kicked those families out.

The insurance company paid, not the HOA.

 

[kaRN]

Why would the victim's family member be present during a deposition?

Possibly because they thought she was 16 and her Mother lives in Haiti. Just a guess on my part because I don't know.

 

[Schuby]

I don't understand why the judge doesn't simply direct this witness to speak up, speak clearly, and be done with it. Why should it be up to the attorney? It's the judges courtroom, her discretion.

It wouldn't matter. I work with college kids. It is impossible to get the soft spoken/shy/uncomfortable ones to project their voice across a room. Trust me.

 

[Beyond Belief]

With the amount of not being able to understand what someone is actually saying that we have experienced in this trial, this witness, GZ on 911 tapes, screams on 911 tapes I can't have any confidence that this witness or GZ can be accurate as to what exactly Trayvon had said to them. IMO

 

[Mendara]

She said she lied about her age because she didn't want to be involved but later admitted to being 18 and agreeing to come forward because she wanted him to be arrested.

She also admitted to lying in previous sworn testimony because, "that didn't mean nothing to me."

Yes I agree and I believe her. The meeting with the Martin's lawyer she was referring to not a meeting with LE. I would want him arrested too. I don't find anything wrong with wanting to come forward with information you have because you have proof of a suspected crime.

I am not saying GZ was not being attacked, I don't know yet if I believe that or not, but I do believe TM was being followed by GZ and I do believe TM did not understand why he was being followed and may have felt threatened himself. GZ had a record of seeing black people and calling the police and nothing came of those calls, he told the operator "they always get away", do i think this time he was thinking HE would catch him and be the HERO? YES. Did his plan go terribly wrong? YES.

Do I believe he went after TM to purposely kill him? NO. Did he end up killing him because of his actions yes. Is he responsible YES. MO

 

[doubt]

How do you know he did not say those things?

JMO

because he was a teenager living in 2012, not 1979.

other than that, i do believe i said 'moo.'' if i failed to, my apologies.

 

[legalmania]

Exactly, legalm. I suffered through that whole trial and the number of sidebars was absurd. The only good thing is now getting to see/hear some of what was going on during them.

I guess it is just a style thing, whether a judge is going to allow sidebars. But I have watched a lot of trials, and other than the Casey Anthony trial, have found that sidebars are pretty rare.

I think I saw one in the whole Abaroa trial.

I actually have attended many trials not only for work but for jury duty and this is the closest I have seen to the real thing.

 

[iluvmua]

http://gzdocs.com/documents/opening_graphics/timeline.jpg

 

[nnglas]

Like you, I believe none of that. It's the most melodramatic bit of hogwash imaginable.

GZ also says TM approached him saying, ""What the [expletive][is] your problem, [modsnip]?"
But in his written statement, suddenly it changes to, "You got a problem?" We now know TM said none of that, simply asking why he was being followed.

GZ also claimed that TM told him to "shut the f$&k up," and claims to have yelled for help repeatedly and that it's him on the tape screaming right before the gun goes off, but apparently he did this with a hand over his mouth, because that's the point that he says TM covered his mouth and nose, and started reaching for his gun (while holding down a struggling man AND covering his mouth and nose?). Oh, and apparently TM talks like a movie villain, because he sinisterly says, "You're gonna die tonight, mother-effer." Who knew that "get off, get off" sounded like "you're gonna die tonight"? I didn't.

I really believe he only way you can believe what GZ says is if you want to believe it. Too many inconsistencies.


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[jjenny]

I don't think her testimony is worthless at all, she is answering his questions, but she is getting tired, like I am, of answering the same thing over and over again. She can't say anything else that will add or subtract to her testimony. Again, if she were lying about her conversation with TM, she would have lied ever further and not have said the phone hung up. The defense is trying to trip her up and confuse her, and yet IMO she has told him what happened and that won't change.

I am curious as to how she was able to remember her conversation with Trayvon in what appears to be remarkable detail, including wet grass moving, and all the things he was saying. And that after quite some time passed.