George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin General discussion #4

[Sweet Fox]

Now RJ doesn't remember saying what she heard herself saying just a little while ago, it is now back to being a 'bump'. WOW. If I were Mr. West, I would told the Court I'm done, left the building and wax surfboards in HA. Man! MOO

I think Mr. West has a tremendous amount of patience. Imagine if he had the temperament of Juan M. LOL

 

[Boodles]

Except his PA diagnosed it as "likely" broken and referred him to an ENT.

Has that been testified to /in evidence? Link?

I heard in opening statements that he did not have a significant injury to his nose and required "not even one suture" for his injuries. I'm expecting to hear someone testify to back this up.

 

[Linda7NJ]

So, you feel he forged medical documents? And that PA has not come out and said so?

I'm saying the PA opinion was based in part on what George reported to him. The PA saw no defects.
George Zimmerman never got an x-ray

 

[Beyond Belief]

If I'm not mistaken I think they said she couldn't read cursive.

Thanks, I'm trying to understand if it was written in cursive for her by say a friend. So the written words would not be her own but someone elses.
imo

 

[Horace Finklestein]

Yes fortunate indeed, considering he purchased the gun to protect himself from a vicious neighborhood pit bull!

Cars and skulls are a bad combo as well... GZ was loaded up with all kinds of protection. Too bad common sense wasn't his first line of defense...

IMHO! :seeya:

I'm not sure what you mean by any of that, or how it relates to him defending himself from TM's attack. Should he only have used his gun if a pit bull was threatening his life? GZ used common sense, unfortunately TM did not. It seems TM felt the need to physically confront the cracker/potential rapist. The situation rests solely on the bad actions and decisions of TM imo.

 

[cityslick]

To some people, iluv, that was the main crime. Better that GZ be beaten to a pulp than use his legally obtained gun.

No, the main crime I'm hearing from some is him getting out the car. The end, everything after that is his fault, regardless of the circumstances.

 

[Tulessa]

And if she did describe it, that would be her opinion.

It's kind of like when the realtor ad says, gently rolling pasture, that would actually be so steep that you would break your neck trying to walk it. It's someones opinion of their description.

I need to dig out some of my ghost hunting equipment, and record the sound of wet grass. Even the wind, which cannot be seen, has a sound.

 

[Donnareit]

Zero evidence of a broken nose.

View attachment 35219View attachment 35220
View attachment 35221

No x-ray.

There are cameras that can show bruising long after they become invisible to the human eye.
http://www.crime-scene-investigator.net/uvchildphoto.html
I wonder if the SPD had access to one or could have had access. In a fight for your life, there should have been significant corroborating evidence of GZ being roughed up. Has anyone seen photos of bruises on George? The bloody nose and small lacerations do not jive with having his skull crushed by repeated pounding or with having someone punch you using the "flailing arms" method of boxing.

 

[sacrablue]

Where's the evidence to suggest or show he had a sense of empowerment?

JMo

George was told by 911 to lay off, stop approaching, get back and let the police handle this.

 

[iluvmua]

Has that been testified to /in evidence? Link?

I heard in opening statements that he did not have a significant injury to his nose and required "not even one suture" for his injuries. I'm expecting to hear someone testify to back this up.

The PA has not testified and I'm sure it's in evidence for the defense.

 

[shelley921]

Because thankfully, our justice system understands that our populace is severely under educated these days- and we cannot exclude that large percentage of human beings from participating or receiving justice merely because our country's education system has also failed them. Just how much do you suggest we marginalize the poorly educated? Honestly, she seems more credible and intelligent than Frank Taffe.

Can you make a silk purse from a sow's ear? The education system in this country takes all comers and some kids come to school much better equipped to learn than others. Is it the job of the schools to teach youngsters manners and respect? Or the job of the parents? Even if she's poorly educated, she should show respect and have manners if she had been taught at home. We teachers know how to educate people - but they have to be prepared to learn and capable.

 

[m00c0w]

Including the rest is absolutely relevant, and quite clearly addresses GZ's actions. What's wrong is that you're trying to claim the whole thing is speculation, despite the fact that what GZ was doing clearly qualifies as chasing. If you have a problem with the definition of the word "chase," you may want to take it up with Merriam Webster. However, claiming that it's not a fact because you don't seem to like how it's defined isn't particularly reasonable, imo, and does nothing to further the conversation. It mostly just comes off as argumentative. Or, that is how it appears to me.

I'm not the one with issues as to how it's defined. I believe it's defined appropriately.

The definition you provided was this:

Pursue in order to catch or catch up with​

You have some examples of this definition. You have the synonyms of the word listed. These are not definitions. The only definition of the word in the predicate form that you have used is "Pursue in order to catch or catch up with".

If you cannot prove, with factual evidence, that he was attempting to catch or catch up with Martin, the entire premise is flawed. I can break this down into logical notation for you, but I believe that is entirely unnecessary as someone who is objective to this should be able to plainly see how using the definition you provided is a faulty premise.

 

[gxm]

For those of you that don't know what wet grass sounds like, have not lived. Just sayin............ :floorlaugh:

One does not perceive the sound of "wet grass" with just one's ears (unless one is sensory disabled and has only auditory ability). It is practically impossible for someone to accurately recognize the sound of "wet grass" over the phone.

 

[nnglas]

Ok, Racial profiling is using someone's skin color as evidence of grounds for suspicion.

You might not like the word. But that is what he was doing.



Wait. I thought the state's case did not include race in the profiling. I thought they are asserting that GZ profiled TM as "suspicious", "criminal", stuff like that, because of the burglaries and other things happening in and around his life and he'd formed an mental impression of what those perps looked like and behaved like, and that they "always got away" therefore he would not rely on LE to apprehend them this time.

I was responding to an earlier post. I thought they couldn't even use profiling at the trial also.


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[Overuled]

In a way I feel a bit sorry for Rachel. It seems like she was trying to protect her friend and yet felt sorry for tm 's mom at the same time. Now shes confused about all the conflicting stories. A young girl having to go through this sort of thing will be forever haunting.

None the less the truth should be out there no matter how long it takes. If it was indeed self defense then they surely wouldn't want to send an innocent man to prison.

 

[Horace Finklestein]

:seeya: Okay Websleuthers, what do we know about dangerous situations? Remember the FLIGHT or FIGHT response of our primitive brains? TM tried fleeing and it didn't work. Maybe he then went into fight mode. Maybe he threw the first punch. Maybe he was "mounted" on GZ with flailing arms throwing punches. But somewhere in this scenario the tables must have turned because GZ could not have pinned TM's fist, reached into his waistband and got his gun, and the shot TM at point blank range while rolling out from under him. There was no blood on GM's shirt or front, and TM was face down clutching his chest when the first responders got there.
So there is still a lot to think about and many witnesses to follow. Be cool. :truce:

So TM couldn't have run home or run away? Not buying that for a second imo.

 

[DIBSY]

Show me evidence that George was "hunting" Trayvon down.

It's not there

JMO

With respect, unless I am misunderstanding your question, if you will listen to GZ on the 911 call, he tells the dispatcher how he is tracking/hunting/ the suspicious %&* and even during the course of hunting for him, he exclaims that he has " lost him "... how can a person "lose" someone they aren't tracking/hunting/stalking et al? Just wondering, particularly when TM gave GZ no reason whatsoever to go after him, not to mention the Dispatcher told GZ " We don't need you to do that." ( as in follow or pursue TM. ) GZ had just admitted to him that he was doing exactly that.:seeya:

 

[iluvmua]

George was told by 911 to lay off, stop approaching, get back and let the police handle this.

George was never told any of that

Sean, the guy who was on the stand two days ago testified to that.

 

[Mollyandme]

Can anyone provide a link that says GZ's nose was actually broken? I keep seeing this being said but I don't recall that his nose was actually broken. Was it actually broken?

it doesn't matter if his nose was broken or not. legally all that matters is that he felt his life was in imminent danger.

 

[UdbCrzy2]

I'm saying the PA opinion was based in part on what George reported to him. The PA saw no defects.
George Zimmerman never got an x-ray

That's what I mean, then how do we know that GZ had a broken nose? The photo I saw recently (couple of posts back) looks normal without blood. The one I saw in the media later where there was blood does look swollen. It's confusing to us.

If no x-rays were taken then how could one say I have a broken nose except to just claim that. I also wondered about all the band-aids when he didn't have any sutures. What was the purpose except for show?