George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin General discussion #4

[PaintingAnemone]

Hate to disappoint you but if you call LE with any type of complaint, a record is made of it. The complainant and the "suspect" (for lack of a better term) are given ID #'s in the contacted LE's computer. Those ID's follow those individual on every proceeding call that is made into that LE's system. If someone enjoys "false reporting", their ID is "red flagged". If they are involved in sketchy behavior, they are noted as "A person of interest" which LE will see the minute they run that individual's name through their system. There needs to be NO CONVICTION, but if something comes up in the future that involves an alleged crime, da*m skippy, the Pro is going to pull EVERY incident report with your ID# connected with it. They will investigate EVERY report ever called in.
So, if a pissy GF makes numerous calls of "unfounded" DV, and then there IS a verified DV act, ALL those reports are going to hit the Pro's desk and you're looking at a stiffer sentence. Unfounded, convicted, plead out, reduced, diverted or dropped, doesn't matter,.
Not going to argue, this is NOT my opinion, this is common knowledge from several family members in LE or former LE.

Interesting. Thanks for the insight.

 

[corundogs]

Whether Trayvon was on the top or the bottom, I cannot figure out how he ended up on his stomach when he was shot in the chest. Nobody has testified that he/she saw any movement from Trayvon after he was shot or that George moved him. The only thing the last person said she saw was George Zimmerman getting up. If it had been George on top, Trayvon would have ended up on his back. If Trayvon had been on top, he would have fallen on top of George, and George would have had to pull himself out from under Trayvon. If George had been on top of Trayvon's back, Trayvon would have been shot in the back.

I think this confusion is why so many of us just can't believe GZ's account.

It's VERY confusing!!!

 

[shelley921]

Agreed that we definitely should still teach cursive. I love beautiful cursive writing.

Just posted the link for reference for anyone who didn't realize that we don't really teach it anymore in the US public school system and that may be why Rachel could not read it aside from her name.

oh okay - I see......thanks.

Cursive writing works with a child's fine motor skills. If we do away with cursive, kids will lose fine motor activity that they will need later in life.

I want to know who all these people who hardly use cursive anymore are. I am over age 50
and I still write lists and handwritten notes in cursive.

With touch screen technology the keyboard is probably more archaic than hand-writing in cursive, so they might as well teach cursive, and stop wasting time teaching typing, because that will probably go away first.

Several years ago, my nephew who was then 8, learned cursive and once he acquired some skill using it, he said he prefered cursive over print. He told me it was because it was faster and it all blends together. He made a huge leap forward in reading when he began writing in cursive because he started to see the words as a whole rather than sounding each letter out individually. I see learning cursive as helpful.

 

[PaintingAnemone]

I do agree that 2005 sounded like a rough year for some reason. But, I will add, that was 6-7 years prior to the shooting and there were no other incidents in that timespan.

Fair enough.

 

[Isabelle]

12 years in USA and speak no English.

My sister has been in the USA more than 50 years and speak no english either.

 

[Bernina]

But the court does not have to grant anything, especially if looks like a mockery of the system or "tit for tat".

It's common practice now for a Judge to place orders against BOTH parties, instead of dealing with the He said/She said, if there is not witnesses or enough evidence to just apply the order to one party. This puts BOTH parties on notice.

 

[ncgramma]

Just in case it wasn't discussed here (ref: Rachel's "I don't read cursive"):

"In the United States, somewhere around the third grade, cursive handwriting instruction has long been a sort of milestone, or rite of passage. But in recent years, the nation's Common Core State Standards — which at least 45 states and the District of Columbia, have voluntarily adopted — took out the requirement for cursive instruction in K through 12 schools."
from http://www.theroot.com/buzz/cursive-still-necessary

I am a college instructor and very few of my students who are under 25 write in cursive.

My grand daughter is 13. She was taught cursive (both being able to read and write) but students are not required to use it on their paperwork. Rachel is older and would have been taught both to read and write it as well. I fear this may be a case of the teachers passing her on without mastery.

 

[raine1212]

O/T just to let everyone know in case you have not heard Dylan's remains have been found.

 

[sacrablue]

Why didn't they interview the other witness in Creole Haitian language ?

 

[iluvmua]

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...or-angela-corey-chief-bill-lee-arrest-warrant

(This is regarding manslaughter) It does not say if the state put manslaughter on the table.

IMO, it seems the state went directly for 2nd degree murder

 

[missmazzy]

Why didn't they interview the other witness in Creole Haitian language ?

She spoke English very well. She mumbled, but that would be true no matter what language she was speaking.

 

[DIBSY]

There were burglaries in the area. They were committed by young black males. GZ was right to be suspicious of someone fitting this description standing around in someone's yard.

Update, if you please. It is my understanding, as it was officially reported , that those suspects had already been apprehended by LE and that GZ must have been aware of it.

According to evidence, TM was standing in a communal area, where the mailboxes are sheltered, when he was not by his father's fiance's home.

 

[sacrablue]

She spoke English very well. She mumbled, but that would be true no matter what language she was speaking.

She spoke English very well?

 

[m00c0w]

Hate to disappoint you but if you call LE with any type of complaint, a record is made of it. The complainant and the "suspect" (for lack of a better term) are given ID #'s in the contacted LE's computer. Those ID's follow those individual on every proceeding call that is made into that LE's system. If someone enjoys "false reporting", their ID is "red flagged". If they are involved in sketchy behavior, they are noted as "A person of interest" which LE will see the minute they run that individual's name through their system. There needs to be NO CONVICTION, but if something comes up in the future that involves an alleged crime, da*m skippy, the Pro is going to pull EVERY incident report with your ID# connected with it. They will investigate EVERY report ever called in.
So, if a pissy GF makes numerous calls of "unfounded" DV, and then there IS a verified DV act, ALL those reports are going to hit the Pro's desk and you're looking at a stiffer sentence. Unfounded, convicted, plead out, reduced, diverted or dropped, doesn't matter,.
Not going to argue, this is NOT my opinion, this is common knowledge from several family members in LE or former LE.

There are several things wrong with this. For one, police reports are not generally allowable in court as they're considered hearsay. The actual person would be compelled to testify, and the police report may be used to impeach their own testimony, but a police report on its face is generally not allowed.

"Prior bad acts" are also excluded as evidence towards character under US FRE 404.

I'm not entirely sure how the conclusion was reached that the prosecution can use things of that nature, but they cannot for the purpose of impeaching character.

 

[especiallyheather]

My grand daughter is 13. She was taught cursive (both being able to read and write) but students are not required to use it on their paperwork. Rachel is older and would have been taught both to read and write it as well. I fear this may be a case of the teachers passing her on without mastery.

That is what I was saying in my previous post about Florida schools removing cursive writing from CORE next year.

Every student in third and fourth grade is taught cursive until next year when they remove it from the CORE.

source: http://abcnews.go.com/US/end-cursive/story?id=12749517#.Ucy2nJxPLGk

 

[shelley921]

Ok, now let's bring out TM's checkered past if we're going to bring up Zimmerman's.

yes let's - wasn't he expelled from school?

someone posted earlier on TM's past - I think it was Nezumi :
......................
the Facebook and Twitter content of TM is absolutely relevant to understanding the person that GZ encountered that night. Far from being the sweet faced 12 year old depicted in the photos provided by the family and their lawyer to the media, he was a recreational drug user and underage drinker who, by his own admission, was involved in multiple assaults of others and who was in the process of trying to illegally obtain a weapon. If I'm not mistaken, THC was found in his system at autopsy. He had been expelled from school and kicked out of his mother's home and sent to live with his father when she could no longer control him.

I find it interesting that we have had so many conversations about the value and accuracy of our personal intuition in so many other cases yet no one is prepared to give GZ the benefit of his intuition.
................

 

[iluvmua]

Oops! :

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...george-michael-zimmerman-second-degree-murder

 

[ncgramma]

From Dee-Dee's testimony, I now think TM held racist thoughts.

The pressure on her throughout this whole mess has been unconscionable. Used by the Martins, used by the media, used by the prosecutor ... and then hung up to dry. Embarrassed INTENTIONALLY on the stand about not being able to read cursive during prosecution re-direct. (Couldn't they just let it go? All the points had already been made on both sides by then).

Teens do use that language everyday. Just sit in any McDonald's and listen to their conversations. She clearly didn't think her speaking with Trayvon was going to be such a big thing. My heart breaks for her. I can only pray that her Mom and Dad are involved and supportive.

Having said that (sorry I kinda took it all out on you), I also think that her narrative about what happened is likely to have been constructed to PLEASE everyone who was putting pressure on her. I cemented that opinion when she said, "I now think TM held racist thoughts." I don't think TM thought twice about using those phrases, whether he was racist or not. It think it was just his familiar speech patterns.

Parents who shrug their shoulders and let their children speak this way are doing them a horrible disservice. What kids say when they're out with their friends we have little control over, but at least we can make sure they use proper, educated speech at home.

 

[iluvmua]

yes let's - wasn't he expelled from school?

someone posted earlier on TM's past - I think it was Nezumi :
......................
the Facebook and Twitter content of TM is absolutely relevant to understanding the person that GZ encountered that night. Far from being the sweet faced 12 year old depicted in the photos provided by the family and their lawyer to the media, he was a recreational drug user and underage drinker who, by his own admission, was involved in multiple assaults of others and who was in the process of trying to illegally obtain a weapon. If I'm not mistaken, THC was found in his system at autopsy. He had been expelled from school and kicked out of his mother's home and sent to live with his father when she could no longer control him.

I find it interesting that we have had so many conversations about the value and accuracy of our personal intuition in so many other cases yet no one is prepared to give GZ the benefit of his intuition.
................

yes, at least three times

 

[Words2Serve]

When they make these laws I find it interesting that they can be so vague.
What would cause me to feel 'fear for my life' vs what would cause another to 'fear for their life' could be at huge ends of a spectrum.

Who gets to decide what an 'acceptable' reason is? If the law does not outline clearly what it defines as 'situations that it considers fall under the 'fear for life' guideline, than how can someone judge my reaction to fear over someone else's? It allows for so much prejudice IMO.