Germany/Portugal - Christian Brueckner, 27 @ time of 1st crime (2004), charged with sexual assault crimes, Praia de Rocha, Portugal. #4

[C.greek]

BIB, specifically in relation to MS when responding to why the inconsistencies hadn’t been questioned further.

Do you think investigators should stop questioning witnesses for fear that the statements may get worse?

That is not for me to answer. And there is no fear involved. It is a fact that every time we recall an event we change a bit the details. The investigator should be in a position by training to know about this and know what to count as facts and what not. And how much to push. The investigator was doing his job, not by fear but by training. Otherwise we would be talking about coerced testimony. Passage of time is one of the most difficult parts for a testinony to be consistent. Since his testimony was taken as reliable in DM trial, these are all tactics by the defence to throw it out. The judge did what they had to do. No more no less. Jmo

 

[Denis R Tandib]

That is not for me to answer. And there is no fear involved. It is a fact that every time we recall an event we change a bit the details. The investigator should be in a position by training to know about this and know what to count as facts and what not. And how much to push. The investigator was doing his job, not by fear but by training. Otherwise we would be talking about coerced testimony. Jmo

I’m with the judge. If a consistent tale can’t be obtained from a witness or witnesses, then it’s not very good evidence.

 

[C.greek]

I’m with the judge. If a consistent tale can’t be obtained from a witness or witnesses, then it’s not very good evidence.

You are putting words to the judge's mouth. Can you quote her exact words?

 

[Denis R Tandib]

You are putting words to the judge's mouth. Can you quote her exact words?

Can you?

 

[Davieson]

You are putting words to the judge's mouth. Can you quote her exact words?

How can anyone quote exact words about anything ? We all rely on what is reported in the media, and they only report what suits them.

 

[UK Girl]

That is very interesting! Thank you for clearing it up. No inconsistencies whatsoever between the witnesses regarding the content of the videos. The inconsistencies and the reference to dementia then must have been related to whether they talked to each other. Nothing to do with their testimony as to the videos.

Actually no in the current trial on the day the Judge questioned the difference in testimony for MS and again she questioned it last week and why the discrepancies were not addressed by the prosecution and that would not have been about the phone calls

 

[Denis R Tandib]

How can anyone quote exact words about anything ? We all rely on what is reported in the media, and they only report what suits them.

My point too.

It seems quite obvious that if a judge is questioning why witnesses weren’t asked about inconsistencies, then she is trying to understand why a) the witness is providing differing versions of events over time and/or b) why two people’s views of the same event are different. Simply, there has to be some inconsistent with the evidence.

Unless of course it doesn’t match pre conceived views of the situation.

 

[C.greek]

Can you?

Of course not, that is why I don't make any assumptions as to what she said. We all rely on botched translations of articles giving snippets of what is actually said in court. It is one of the most frustrating trials to follow!

 

[C.greek]

My point too.

It seems quite obvious that if a judge is questioning why witnesses weren’t asked about inconsistencies, then she is trying to understand why a) the witness is providing differing versions of events over time and/or b) why two people’s views of the same event are different. Simply, there has to be some inconsistent with the evidence.

Unless of course it doesn’t match pre conceived views of the situation.

There are no preconceived views of the situation, but testimonies which were taken into considerations and proven trustworthy I the trial for DM's rape.

 

[C.greek]

Actually no in the current trial on the day the Judge questioned the difference in testimony for MS and again she questioned it last week and why the discrepancies were not addressed by the prosecution and that would not have been about the phone calls

Do you have a link to an article about that?

 

[Denis R Tandib]

There are no preconceived views of the situation, but testimonies which were taken into considerations and proven trustworthy I the trial for DM's rape.

And are now different in this trial.

 

[C.greek]

And are now different in this trial.

That's interesting. Hygge above and Misty were pretty clear about the videos that were seen by the two witnesses. I am not sure if this has ever been presented in the current trial.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

That's interesting. Hygge above and Misty were pretty clear about the videos that were seen by the two witnesses. I am not sure if this has ever been presented in the current trial.

Have a check of the BZ articles from early in the trial. Some are posted on here and not behind paywall. The article from Hyggd is behind paywall hence my request for it to be shared.

 

[Officer Dibble]

I keep losing this thread. I've found it by accident. Can someone click like. Just one person, so I can find it again? Thanks.

 

[UK Girl]

That's interesting. Hygge above and Misty were pretty clear about the videos that were seen by the two witnesses. I am not sure if this has ever been presented in the current trial.

they had the judge from the previous trial as a witness

Not just that the reporters post just a few words said in court each day by witnesses. Unlike the Judge we do not have the full transcript so can not know what has made her concerned about the witnesses's testimony.

 

[Anxala]

Do you have a link to an article about that?

That's interesting. Hygge above and Misty were pretty clear about the videos that were seen by the two witnesses. I am not sure if this has ever been presented in the current trial.

The German coverage - the local coverage in particular - is much more detailed and informative than the UK coverage. If you follow the German coverage, you'll find answers to a lot of what you're questioning here. Particularly what you seem to be dismissing as false and/or irrelevant.

It absolutely has come up as an issue - and an ongoing one - in the current trial, the discrepancies between what MS said in 2019 and what he's now saying in 2024. And the judge clearly thinks it's relevant in terms of determining the outcome for the charges she's tasked with considering. That's not me saying it's relevant, that's the judge, the one with all the info and background for this trial at hand.

Those of us following the German coverage are not making things up. If we don't post links, it's because they're paywalled, but there are enough named German media sources on this thread for you to google and, respectfully, do your own research so you're not dependant upon 'second-hand' info.

 

[C.greek]

It seems there are not specific discrepancies that have been discussed in this thread that are relevant to the current trial. And it seems strange that nobody can actually say what these are. The only one mentioned, the age difference for example was already discounted by hygge and misty. The only other discrepancy that i know of but has npt been discussed here has to do with the mention of MS seeing a date of 2005 on one of the videos, seemingly as a result of FF's mention the previous day that the status of limitation or whatever it's called could have expired. This date seemingly was not mentioned before in his testimonies. The other discrepancy which is irrelevant to the purported content of the videos is that they talked to each other the day before or the day of the trial. Why can't you be direct and tell me what discrepancies have to do with the contents of the videos that the two witnesses testified about? The judge would have raised an eyebrow about all and any discrepancy as she should do. My point has been to discuss the exact discrepancies that are related to the content of the videos and would raise doubts about whether the two witnesses witnessed the two rapes that are currently on trial.

 

[C.greek]

The German coverage - the local coverage in particular - is much more detailed and informative than the UK coverage. If you follow the German coverage, you'll find answers to a lot of what you're questioning here. Particularly what you seem to be dismissing as false and/or irrelevant.

It absolutely has come up as an issue - and an ongoing one - in the current trial, the discrepancies between what MS said in 2019 and what he's now saying in 2024. And the judge clearly thinks it's relevant in terms of determining the outcome for the charges she's tasked with considering. That's not me saying it's relevant, that's the judge, the one with all the info and background for this trial at hand.

Those of us following the German coverage are not making things up. If we don't post links, it's because they're paywalled, but there are enough named German media sources on this thread for you to google and, respectfully, do your own research so you're not dependant upon 'second-hand' info.

I never said anything about false reporting!

 

[UK Girl]

It seems there are not specific discrepancies that have been discussed in this thread that are relevant to the current trial. And it seems strange that nobody can actually say what these are. The only one mentioned, the age difference for example was already discounted by hygge and misty. The only other discrepancy that i know of but has npt been discussed here has to do with the mention of MS seeing a date of 2005 on one of the videos, seemingly as a result of FF's mention the previous day that the status of limitation or whatever it's called could have expired. This date seemingly was not mentioned before in his testimonies. The other discrepancy which is irrelevant to the purported content of the videos is that they talked to each other the day before or the day of the trial. Why can't you be direct and tell me what discrepancies have to do with the contents of the videos that the two witnesses testified about? The judge would have raised an eyebrow about all and any discrepancy as she should do. My point has been to discuss the exact discrepancies that are related to the content of the videos and would raise doubts about whether the two witnesses witnessed the two rapes that are currently on trial.

There seem to be several issues - about MS testimony, about the recording of testimony, about the BKA not wanting to question testimony and then ofc the issue of the box factory for starters . All of this has been written about in articles the last few days

 

[C.greek]

There seem to be several issues - about MS testimony, about the recording of testimony, about the BKA not wanting to question testimony and then ofc the issue of the box factory for starters . All of this has been written about in articles the last few days

I am talking only about MS and HeB testimonies, not the rest and the discrepancies between their testimonies