Germany/Portugal - Christian Brueckner, 27 @ time of 1st crime (2004), charged with sexual assault crimes, Praia de Rocha, Portugal. #4

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I agree - if he’s released there is a grave danger to the public, especially to children & vulnerable people. Perhaps not initially but within a couple of years I wouldn’t be surprised if he was adding convictions 19 & 20 to his rap sheet. He’s a serial offender & nothing has stopped him from reoffending.

I think the defence have tried to paint a picture of him as a deteriorating ‘victim’, trying to garner some sympathy for the judges. It’s a clever move. CB could quite easily turn up everyday looking polished but they’ve chosen for him not to. In contrast the victims have been strong, well kept & bold.

I see the appeals as a positive development because if there was an element of bias, the appeals will have pulled attention on the judges & would create a more balanced trial. I think 4 very experienced defence lawyers all running 1 case, will likely be something the local court is not used to.
If he's released it will because he will have served his time and been cleared in the five cases, fortunately we're not locking people up for reasons apart from guilt.
 
The converse applies as well. Just because someone is found guilty of a crime doesn't mean that they actually are guilty, merely that it has been so determined by that court.
Think of all the miscarriages of justice that have been shown to have occurred over the years
Agree - that’s why I think these 5 cases will be locked in appeals & motions well into next year. It won’t be over in October.

There’ll always be a correlation between thoughts on the prosecution in general & a person’s opinion in the MM case. That’ll also play into legally/factually innocent debate.

When there’s a final outcome to the 5 cases, it needs accepting. Just as we’ve all accepted CB’s conviction in the DM case. Can’t be both ways I’m afraid.
 
Agree - that’s why I think these 5 cases will be locked in appeals & motions well into next year. It won’t be over in October.

There’ll always be a correlation between thoughts on the prosecution in general & a person’s opinion in the MM case. That’ll also play into legally/factually innocent debate.

When there’s a final outcome to the 5 cases, it needs accepting. Just as we’ve all accepted CB’s conviction in the DM case. Can’t be both ways I’m afraid.
Quite, one must always accept the verdict of the court - until overruled by a higher court.
 
Might I respectfully suggest that attempting to glean any information at all from the most quoted paywalled articles is a futile exercise which rarely results in any meaningful additional information being added to the public domain.
My opinion

Are you kidding me? Futile and meaningless?! Without the local and wider German press coverage, this thread would be deader than the deadest dodo, reliant upon the likes of the tabloids and people like Jon Clarke, neither of whom are in the business of serious or objective reporting.

The local German press in particular has done an excellent job, without which none of us would have a clue about what's actually going on in court. And I suspect that's the majority opinion on here.

Rather than dismissing it as futile and meaningless, perhaps it would be more appropriate to thank those who've gone and who continue to go to the trouble of reporting back from behind the paywalls, at their own expense, for the benefit of the rest of us.

We are told the State is picking up the tabs if no-one else is and indeed, that is how it should be. But isn't it a very prestigious line up of criminal lawyers who have been devoting so much of their time to CB for so many years.

There is a win-win issue which springs to mind regarding that
  • one couldn't put a price on the value of the free advertising
My opinion

Free advertising for what?
 
Quite, one must always accept the verdict of the court - until overruled by a higher court.
That’d’be how the legal system works. Hence why appeal processes exist. Up until the day a MM verdict appeal (defence or prosecution) comes, we’ll have many a motion & many a twist & turn. All that inevitable back-&-forth debate will come. People will hash out every thread of detail & it’ll always be polarising. I’m pro-victim, so my biggest concern from now until the end - is them not having all of the evidence in their cases heard.
 
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That’d’be how the legal system works. Hence why appeal processes exist. Up until the day a MM verdict appeal (defence or prosecution) comes, we’ll have many a motion & many a twist & turn. All that inevitable back-&-forth debate to come, when it comes to the case I hope the victims are front & centre. Always.
I really don't think we are going to see to see an MM trial in a German court.
 
I really don't think we are going to see to see an MM trial in a German court.
It’s interesting you say that because I was having this conversation (in the real world) yesterday with a colleague at work. I don’t have any understanding on the barriers between Germany, CB & the case being heard in England or Portugal. Nor do I know what limitations double jeopardy has outside of jurisdiction. I’m assuming the ECHR covers that. If CB gets a nailed on release date early next year, I expect we’ll get a lot more clarity answer on the MM case between then & now.
 
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If he's released it will because he will have served his time and been cleared in the five cases, fortunately we're not locking people up for reasons apart from guilt.
Actually we do. And so does the German Federation. It is known as Preventative Custody and is in place to protect the public from persons who are considered too dangerous to be freed.

Snip
Preventive detention
is an imprisonment that is putatively justified for non-punitive purposes, most often to prevent further criminal acts.

Preventive detention sometimes involves the detention of a convicted criminal who has served their sentence but is considered too dangerous to release.

Remand or pre-trial detention and involuntary commitment are sometimes considered a form of preventive detention.

...

In Germany, preventive detention (German: Sicherungsverwahrung) is an indeterminate sentence that follows regular imprisonment, imposed as part of a criminal sentence.[10]

Sicherungsverwahrung is imposed in the original judicial sentence. It could formerly be subsequently imposed under certain circumstances, but the practice of subsequent incapacitation was ruled a violation of Art 7 of the European Convention on Human Rights by the European Court of Human Rights.[11] The Federal Constitutional Court of Germany also issued a verdict on Sicherungsverwahrung in May 2011, deeming it unconstitutional.[12] In response, a new law regulating Sicherungsverwahrung was passed in November 2012.[13]

In 2023 27 supporters of Last Generation (climate movement) were preemptively imprisoned after the group announced protests of the International Motor Show Germany.[14]
 
Are you kidding me? Futile and meaningless?! Without the local and wider German press coverage, this thread would be deader than the deadest dodo, reliant upon the likes of the tabloids and people like Jon Clarke, neither of whom are in the business of serious or objective reporting.

The local German press in particular has done an excellent job, without which none of us would have a clue about what's actually going on in court. And I suspect that's the majority opinion on here.

Rather than dismissing it as futile and meaningless, perhaps it would be more appropriate to thank those who've gone and who continue to go to the trouble of reporting back from behind the paywalls, at their own expense, for the benefit of the rest of us.



Free advertising for what?

Today's court hearing has come and gone and until Hygge posted a link confirming that the trial actually had progressed to hearing an important witness, we had no other information.

Really not twenty four hour coverage of the news as it happens and one can only wonder about what or who else happened in today's stage of the trial.
My opinion
 
Today's court hearing has come and gone and until Hygge posted a link confirming that the trial actually had progressed to hearing an important witness, we had no other information.

Really not twenty four hour coverage of the news as it happens and one can only wonder about what or who else happened in today's stage of the trial.
My opinion
Yup - this isn’t a Netflix or Amazon crime drama where the viewer can ‘pick a favourite’ character. This is a real world trial for the most heinous of crimes. It’s worth reading reports from anybody who attends the trial or has close ties to people who have information from trial, irrespective of whether there’s a gripe with the source or if there’s annoyance that the article is favourable to the victims or the McCanns. There are pieces in many reports that have added context.
 
Today's court hearing has come and gone and until Hygge posted a link confirming that the trial actually had progressed to hearing an important witness, we had no other information.

Really not twenty four hour coverage of the news as it happens and one can only wonder about what or who else happened in today's stage of the trial.
My opinion

But that's just you and your, forgive me, rather strange sense of entitlement talking. It's you expecting other posters with access to behind paywall info immediately posting on here for your benefit.

I read the trial reporting earlier today as did other posters on here. So your 'we' is probably really just you.

I'm interested in the trial. Are you interested in the trial or are you just interested in focusing on and criticising the bits of the reporting that don't sit well with you? Because that's very much how you're coming across.

If you're really interested in this trial - and you certainly seem to be - why are you not accesssing the paywalled sources that the rest of us are doing?
 
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There is one from today behind paywall

BKA chief profiler considers Christian B. to be a serial rapist“​

But acknowledged different MO, no filming of DM HaB was she believed filmed.DM was blindfolded HaB wasnt, also the profiler saw many differences in the actions.
 
So what similarities were there ?
Who knows but the article lists the differences, so more questions than answers.Another thing highlighted is that there is an international database that the Portuguese don't enter it's cases into.
 
So what similarities were there ?
“In both cases, they were entry-level rapists, "criminally very unusually competent perpetrators who proceed very purposefully, with a high level of organization." The perpetrators, according to Dern, had brought their rape equipment to the crime scenes. Both women were surprised by them, bound by weapons and raped several times.”

Dern spoke of a "destructive ritual." This is the "central element" in both cases and speaks from his point of view for a "joint perpetrator."
 
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