Germany/Portugal - Christian Brueckner, 27 @ time of 1st crime (2004), charged with sexual assault crimes, Praia de Rocha, Portugal. #5

[Davieson]

It's questioning the evidence that we understand that has been presented, there's a large difference.For instance the Welt said the girl and mother didn't give evidence in court but yet were on tv, maybe the reluctance can be understood, but justice doesn't work in a tv studio.

There seem to have been a number of TV links to the court.

 

[frank-cole]

It isnt about defending CB. It is about wanting facts which frankly we do not seem to have had many in this trial.

Judging by what the psychiatric expert said, it seems like we aren’t privy to all the facts. He talked about CB’s writings that were in ‘the file’ & that he didn’t want to repeat them because they were “creepy”. I’m not well versed on their system, but judging by what the expert said, it does appear there are things the public aren’t aware of. And rightly so. We may be interested but don’t have the right to know it all.

I think the Germans could possibly announce their concrete evidence in summary post MM charge. If it’s very incriminating I think we’ll all be on the same page before the trial begins. If it happens I think it will certainly confirm who isn’t responsible.

 

[Davieson]

We can only discuss information put before the court that we are privy to. Anything else is pointless speculation.

 

[UK Girl]

Judging by what the psychiatric expert said, it seems like we aren’t privy to all the facts. He talked about CB’s writings that were in ‘the file’ & that he didn’t want to repeat them because they were “creepy”. I’m not well versed on their system, but judging by what the expert said, it does appear there are things the public aren’t aware of. And rightly so. We may be interested but don’t have the right to know it all.

I think the Germans could possibly announce their concrete evidence in summary post MM charge. If it’s very incriminating I think we’ll all be on the same page before the trial begins. If it happens I think it will certainly confirm who isn’t responsible.

tbh we did know about those files or some of us did at least.

 

[Davieson]

tbh we did know about those files or some of us did at least.

Well we know what was reported, which would be selected highlights without proper context.
No newspaper is running a serialisation.

 

[frank-cole]

Well we know what was reported, which would be selected highlights without proper context.

Correct but that doesn’t mean there isn’t any. Because the expert said he’d read the files - relating to the writings. So to your point, the writings are something we know about.

 

[frank-cole]

He’s bang to rights on this imo crouched with his trousers around his ankles.
I know the times I’ve been caught short whilst drinking usually on a car journey where you really are desperate you’ve it all to do to unzip your flies, let alone drop your trousers , can’t say I know anyone who drops their trousers to pee. Plus the GROUND WAS BONE DRY ! witnessed by numerous people and an off duty police officer immediately on the scene.

The BKA are trying to clear up the mess the original PJ missed where CB has only convictions for diesel theft and traffic offences that imo speaks volumes and why he felt comfortable in the Algarve .Anybody who thinks that’s seriously all he’s been upto really needs to give their head a wobble.

IMO the root to many of these is the incompetence of the LEA who failed to investigate properly in the first place. The German’s probably wouldn’t need to be cleaning this up now if it was better handled back then.

Same goes for the 28 incidences of a man going into girls bedrooms along the Algarve in the few years running up to 07. If they ever identify who that was, it’ll be a harder job prosecuting today.

 

[Davieson]

No point in blaming the Portuguese police, the Germans chose to take this and other cases to trial, no one else.

 

[frank-cole]

No point in blaming the Portuguese police, the Germans chose to take this and other cases to trial, no one else.

This one! You’ve inadvertently made my point for me. I’ll trivialise to take the CB out of it. 2 firefighters & a fire, the first - doesn’t make an effort to put out the fire but the second tries. Their boss is hostile & scrutinises the second because they made the effort but not in a way that satisfied him. The same boss wants to pay no attention to the first who did not make the effort. That boss would soon be in front of a tribunal answering for the misconduct, favouritism & whatever else of the book they could throw at him. Always worth trying to put out the fire.

I’m often bemused by the rationale but this one was way out of left field.

 

[Mex]

LOL - try living in the inner city. On football days men pee everywhere, including in the courtyards, carparks, parks - they really do not think twice. I don't have a comment on this case, with my remark - but rather I have seen it all by now.

I confess to bemusement that apparently there is no notion of zero tolerance for a known paedophile lurking in a play area with his trousers round his ankles where children are at play .

 

[Davieson]

This one! You’ve inadvertently made my point for me. I’ll trivialise to take the CB out of it. 2 firefighters & a fire, the first - doesn’t make an effort to put out the fire but the second tries. Their boss is hostile & scrutinises the second because they made the effort but not in a way that satisfied him. The same boss wants to pay no attention to the first who did not make the effort. That boss would soon be in front of a tribunal answering for the misconduct, favouritism & whatever else of the book they could throw at him. Always worth trying to put out the fire.

I’m often bemused by the rationale but this one was way out of left field.

Who's the boss?
Your comparison is nonsense because your 2 firemen are working for the same organisation at the same time, which hardly describes the current situation.
The Germans had no need to involve themselves, they chose to do so and I don't hear them criticsing them Portuguese colleagues

 

[Mex]

One can't believe everything seen on TV. Did he testify to that effect in court, do you know ?

Actually he did testify in court. I cannot find the link but there is one because I have read it.

 

[frank-cole]

Who's the boss?
Your comparison is nonsense because your 2 firemen are working for the same organisation at the same time, which hardly describes the current situation.
The Germans had no need to involve themselves, they chose to do so and I don't hear them criticsing them Portuguese colleagues

I trivialised because I was purposely taking the CB out of it. You often scrutinise the Germans for whatever new or old reason that comes up. A lot of it is unfounded but the length of the trial & some of the comments in the build up have incensed me.

That’s partly why I’m befuddled with why you’ve taken issue when I scrutinise the PJ. Because after all, we’re talking about CB & these crimes. CB lived in Portugal, the crimes happened in Portugal, the PJ ran the area & the PJ were initially involved in investigating the very same crimes. They’re also now involved in the case against CB. Think of the DM case for reference.

You can’t have it both ways I’m afraid.

 

[UK Girl]

I trivialised because I was purposely taking the CB out of it. You often scrutinise the Germans for whatever new or old reason that comes up. A lot of it is unfounded but the length of the trial & some of the comments in the build up have incensed me.

That’s partly why I’m befuddled with why you’ve taken issue when I scrutinise the PJ. Because after all, we’re talking about CB & these crimes. CB lived in Portugal, the crimes happened in Portugal, the PJ ran the area & the PJ were initially involved in investigating the very same crimes. They’re also now involved in the case against CB. Think of the DM case for reference.

You can’t have it both ways I’m afraid.

tbh maybe the Pj didnt go ahead simply because there was not enough evidence or the witnesses were not seen to be reliable which seems to be the situation now

 

[Davieson]

I trivialised because I was purposely taking the CB out of it. You often scrutinise the Germans for whatever new or old reason that comes up. A lot of it is unfounded but the length of the trial & some of the comments in the build up have incensed me.

That’s partly why I’m befuddled with why you’ve taken issue when I scrutinise the PJ. Because after all, we’re talking about CB & these crimes. CB lived in Portugal, the crimes happened in Portugal, the PJ ran the area & the PJ were initially involved in investigating the very same crimes. They’re also now involved in the case against CB. Think of the DM case for reference.

You can’t have it both ways I’m afraid.

I didn't realise we were playing tit for tat. Rather childish in my opinion.
I don't think the Portuguese are still involved except perhaps as facilitators for Portuguese witnesses
No, this is mostly a German show and it doesn't seem to be going too well for them at present.

 

[JB1510]

It doesn't matter whether you believe a parent or not.
What does matter is the evidence that was presented to the court and how that was interpreted by the judges.

As I said “ personally “ regarding my view of the parents and would like to think a judge would take into account the stressful nature of it being revisited again under media scrutiny .I hope and have no reason to believe the parents and policewoman who were there to not have changed their initial report to the PJ in 2007 or prior to June 2020 just in case the defence tries to use media led memory card. I hope the BKA got to do as much useful work as they could in Portugal before a certain GA decided to throw his toys out the pram and invent this supposed scapegoat because he won’t accept he was wrong.

This has been a messy trial no question and it really will go to the wire.
Dealing with cold cases in another country with no physical evidence is never going to be easy and the stop starting is frustrating. The treatment of the witnesses and victims has been shameful.

I do believe HaB recognised those eyes ,was right about his origin,height, mo , the terror aspect inflicted on DM whose jaw he broke , and the horrific assault of HaB.

CB was photographed in the exact same apartment block weeks before.I have no doubt the filmed assaults happened given their mo and the assaults on HaB and DM.
You also have CB in his own words asking for video cameras and tapes to be removed whilst in jail.

One of the big questions this trial is alleged video , be it the filming of HaB and the missing tapes of the 2 possibly 3 sa there were very likely
many more according to CP.

If the BKA do indeed have photo or video of evidence of MM with or without CB (masked) imo highlights the fact the missing video evidence listed above which has been difficult to prove leaves no doubt that the chance of the film maker being anyone other than CB , BARD .

Or you take it as another coincidence and he got it on the dark web.

 

[Mex]

I didn't realise we were playing tit for tat. Rather childish in my opinion.
I don't think the Portuguese are still involved except perhaps as facilitators for Portuguese witnesses
No, this is mostly a German show and it doesn't seem to be going too well for them at present.

I agree that the process has been in turmoil since the judge decided to rescind the five arrest warrants before all the evidence had been heard.
That reads to me as a decision taken without proper evaluation taking place.

I find it quite extraordinary and a bit of a slight both to the victims of crime and the witnesses who have been heard.

In effect the fact that the show does not seem to be going too well for the Germans does not ring true. The Germans will be fine. It is the victims of crime whose contribution to the process has been apparently dismissed out of hand who will suffer the fallout.
My opinion

 

[JB1510]

It's questioning the evidence that we understand that has been presented, there's a large difference.For instance the Welt said the girl and mother didn't give evidence in court but yet were on tv, maybe the reluctance can be understood, but justice doesn't work in a tv studio.

True but it does if it’s backed up by police statements.

 

[frank-cole]

I agree that the process has been in turmoil since the judge decided to rescind the five arrest warrants before all the evidence had been heard.
That reads to me as a decision taken without proper evaluation taking place.

I find it quite extraordinary and a bit of a slight both to the victims of crime and the witnesses who have been heard.

In effect the fact that the show does not seem to be going too well for the Germans does not ring true. The Germans will be fine. It is the victims of crime whose contribution to the process has been apparently dismissed out of hand who will suffer the fallout.
My opinion

Agree. Discrediting the prosecution seems forced & preemptive of things to come. It’s another thing that is not coincidental. That pattern will extend out to witnesses & even victims.

The trial hasn’t been to everybody’s tastes, but I find that many trials are infuriating, start stop & controversial at times.

The victims deserved to have their cases heard & the prosecution have worked hard to deliver that for them.

 

[Davieson]

As I said “ personally “ regarding my view of the parents and would like to think a judge would take into account the stressful nature of it being revisited again under media scrutiny .I hope and have no reason to believe the parents and policewoman who were there to not have changed their initial report to the PJ in 2007 or prior to June 2020 just in case the defence tries to use media led memory card. I hope the BKA got to do as much useful work as they could in Portugal before a certain GA decided to throw his toys out the pram and invent this supposed scapegoat because he won’t accept he was wrong.

This has been a messy trial no question and it really will go to the wire.
Dealing with cold cases in another country with no physical evidence is never going to be easy and the stop starting is frustrating. The treatment of the witnesses and victims has been shameful.

I do believe HaB recognised those eyes ,was right about his origin,height, mo , the terror aspect inflicted on DM whose jaw he broke , and the horrific assault of HaB.

CB was photographed in the exact same apartment block weeks before.I have no doubt the filmed assaults happened given their mo and the assaults on HaB and DM.
You also have CB in his own words asking for video cameras and tapes to be removed whilst in jail.

One of the big questions this trial is alleged video , be it the filming of HaB and the missing tapes of the 2 possibly 3 sa there were very likely
many more according to CP.

If the BKA do indeed have photo or video of evidence of MM with or without CB (masked) imo highlights the fact the missing video evidence listed above which has been difficult to prove leaves no doubt that the chance of the film maker being anyone other than CB , BARD .

Or you take it as another coincidence and he got it on the dark web.

I don't work on 'ifs' and beliefs nor the mis-truths commonly reported in various tabloids.
I'm following the facts as presented in court (such as they are) and trying to make sense of the various witness statements and contradictions.
Hopefully we shall get to the outcome before too long