Germany/Portugal - Christian Brueckner, 27 @ time of 1st crime (2004), charged with sexual assault crimes, Praia de Rocha, Portugal. #5

[Mex]

Just as an aside
Snip
(FF) He did not believe the third rape victim that she could identify his client as the perpetrator based on the color of his eyes.
He explicitly did not question the rapes themselves.
However, it could not be said beyond doubt that his client was the perpetrator.
Voluntariness is also not ruled out.
...
The lawyers also accused the investigating authority of gross technical errors and sleight of hand in the presentation of evidence.
For example, the public prosecutor's office accuses B. of masturbating twice in front of children because there are two different statements about the crime scene.
In general, from the point of view of the defense, the act at a party in Portugal was wild peeing instead of masturbating.

Überraschung in Vergewaltigungsprozess: Urteil gegen fränkischen Maddie-Verdächtigen (47) gefallen

Der Prozess gegen den auch im Fall "Maddie" verdächtigten Christian B. ist beendet. Der 47 Jahre alte Mann aus Franken hat sein Urteil erhalten - wie geht es nun für ihn weiter?

www.infranken.de

Do you know, if it wasn't so serious it would be laughable. Just look at the "wild peeing" for example. That conjured up an image for me that I rather would not have thought about.

And the 'rough sex' allegation seems to be very much in vogue amongst rapists these days.
What great fun it must be to be terrorised, raped and beaten and abused half to death and to suffer lifelong injury physical and mental as a result.

How insulting is it to make that allegation regarding HB.

According to the German press that is FF's mindset. Says a lot.

 

[johnlair]

Just as an aside
Snip
(FF) He did not believe the third rape victim that she could identify his client as the perpetrator based on the color of his eyes.
He explicitly did not question the rapes themselves.
However, it could not be said beyond doubt that his client was the perpetrator.
Voluntariness is also not ruled out.
...
The lawyers also accused the investigating authority of gross technical errors and sleight of hand in the presentation of evidence.
For example, the public prosecutor's office accuses B. of masturbating twice in front of children because there are two different statements about the crime scene.
In general, from the point of view of the defense, the act at a party in Portugal was wild peeing instead of masturbating.

Überraschung in Vergewaltigungsprozess: Urteil gegen fränkischen Maddie-Verdächtigen (47) gefallen

Der Prozess gegen den auch im Fall "Maddie" verdächtigten Christian B. ist beendet. Der 47 Jahre alte Mann aus Franken hat sein Urteil erhalten - wie geht es nun für ihn weiter?

www.infranken.de

Do you know, if it wasn't so serious it would be laughable. Just look at the "wild peeing" for example. That conjured up an image for me that I rather would not have thought about.

And the 'rough sex' allegation seems to be very much in vogue amongst rapists these days.
What great fun it must be to be terrorised, raped and beaten and abused half to death and to suffer lifelong injury physical and mental as a result.

How insulting is it to make that allegation regarding HB.

According to the German press that is FF's mindset. Says a lot.

Not to mention they made HB have her chair positioned so she was having to look directly at CB all through her interrogation that lasted probably to her a very very long time... No no I thought maybe that was just how they did things in Germany but the more I have read about it ...it's highly unusual ... Making a kid demonstrate the action of masturbation until tey broke down and cried... I agree the judges themselves just saw this differently to other cases due to all the media attention about MM ... Personally it would have been better for them to keep quiet about MM until at least after the case but then again HB would never have spotted him but to me it's been a shambles..

 

[UK Girl]

Not to mention they made HB have her chair positioned so she was having to look directly at CB all through her interrogation that lasted probably to her a very very long time... No no I thought maybe that was just how they did things in Germany but the more I have read about it ...it's highly unusual ... Making a kid demonstrate the action of masturbation until tey broke down and cried... I agree the judges themselves just saw this differently to other cases due to all the media attention about MM ... Personally it would have been better for them to keep quiet about MM until at least after the case but then again HB would never have spotted him but to me it's been a shambles..

I agree its been a shambles but not in the way you mean

 

[johnlair]

I agree its been a shambles but not in the way you do

Yeah I've noticed

 

[UK Girl]

Yeah I've noticed

for me the Judge was in a hard position. She had witnesses that kept contradicting themselves and each other. She somehow to get to the truth of what happened.

 

[johnlair]

for me the Judge was in a hard position. She had witnesses that kept contradicting themselves and each other. She somehow to get to the truth of what happened.

Yeah I get that... The witnesses were a complete mess.. the prosecution should have had more to go on too but they are old crimes so made it difficult... I just had a problem with the way she treated Hazel after reading her testimony of the attack it sickened me that poor lady must have been terrified... It should have been dealt with properly in Portugal.. but I just think knowing the details of her rape the court should have been more considerate... She was not on trial.. he was and his history he didn't get away with and his stories kinda spell it out what kind of sicko he is.. I agree tho that one must be deemed guilty with sufficient evidence but also agree in compassionate treatment of victims in a court of law.. the way HB was treated and the young girl having to demonstrate masturbation was harsh ... And come on is a kid really gonna make that up and go through the shame of going to court to tell a lie... It's just ludicrous to think that.

 

[UK Girl]

Yeah I get that... The witnesses were a complete mess.. the prosecution should have had more to go on too but they are old crimes so made it difficult... I just had a problem with the way she treated Hazel after reading her testimony of the attack it sickened me that poor lady must have been terrified... It should have been dealt with properly in Portugal.. but I just think knowing the details of her rape the court should have been more considerate... She was not on trial.. he was and his history he didn't get away with and his stories kinda spell it out what kind of sicko he is.. I agree tho that one must be deemed guilty with sufficient evidence but also agree in compassionate treatment of victims in a court of law.. the way HB was treated and the young girl having to demonstrate masturbation was harsh ... And come on is a kid really gonna make that up and go through the shame of going to court to tell a lie... It's just ludicrous to think that.

The Judge has explained her reasons for the way she ruled. If you can try and read a copy

 

[Mex]

Not to mention they made HB have her chair positioned so she was having to look directly at CB all through her interrogation that lasted probably to her a very very long time... No no I thought maybe that was just how they did things in Germany but the more I have read about it ...it's highly unusual ... Making a kid demonstrate the action of masturbation until tey broke down and cried... I agree the judges themselves just saw this differently to other cases due to all the media attention about MM ... Personally it would have been better for them to keep quiet about MM until at least after the case but then again HB would never have spotted him but to me it's been a shambles..

I doubt that I have ever heard of a vulnerable woman receiving such insensitive treatment.
It epitomises the tone of the trial both for witnesses and survivors who had experienced terror and lasting injury both mentally and physically.
The judge listened to details of HB's ordeal yet she allowed and condoned CB's lawyer moving her chair. Unheard of and sadistic and obviously a tactic to unsettle the witness!
Snip
HB, was asked by the defence to be deliberately positioned in her seat so that she was forced to face the alleged perpetrator.

Prosecutors to appeal after Madeleine McCann suspect acquitted in separate rape trial

Christian Brückner found not guilty in Germany of three charges of aggravated rape and two of sexual abuse

www.theguardian.com

Unfortunately behind a paywall but it seems the Irish Times are less than impressed with what happened to HB at the hands of German justice
The Irish Times
https://www.irishtimes.com/crime-law/2024/10/08/how-hazel-behan-w… How Hazel Behan was treated in German rape trial of CB …
WEB1 day ago · Tue Oct 08 2024 - 20:14. When Hazel Behan left a German courtroom last May, she could have been forgiven for thinking she had been on trial for her own sexual assault.

 

[Mex]

for me the Judge was in a hard position. She had witnesses that kept contradicting themselves and each other. She somehow to get to the truth of what happened.

The problem is that the presiding judge made up her mind right at the very beginning of the trial. Procedure is to listen to all the evidence and all the witnesses throughout all the stages and base judgement on that.
For that to work, it is necessary to wait till it is all in at the end of the trial.

Now it will be a decision for the Supreme Court to decide if the witnesses and victims got a fair trial and I don't think we will have too long to wait for that decision to be made.
Because this was a shocking trial with witnesses and victims being pilloried in the foulest terms imaginable.
My opinion

 

[Denis R Tandib]

The problem is that the presiding judge made up her mind right at the very beginning of the trial. Procedure is to listen to all the evidence and all the witnesses throughout all the stages and base judgement on that.
For that to work, it is necessary to wait till it is all in at the end of the trial.

Now it will be a decision for the Supreme Court to decide if the witnesses and victims got a fair trial and I don't think we will have too long to wait for that decision to be made.
Because this was a shocking trial with witnesses and victims being pilloried in the foulest terms imaginable.
My opinion

BIB, that is HCW’s opinion but does he really know that? It’s not the first time his loose lips have blurted things he seems incapable of proving. Surely based on this recent trial everything he has previously said must be brought into question.

The judge was clear in her ruling that the evidence was insufficient to prove a crime had been committed under German law - a subject she understands.

I can’t see how an appeal will change the ruling, the evidence just isn’t there. Many on this forum suggested that a charge was only possible if a conviction were almost certain - that turned out to be completely wrong.

 

[RichardKimble]

The Mail quotes the sun so its probably rubbish, but I doubt CB is planning any thing but his lawyers might be , still we had all kinds of rubbish pre trial it won't stop post trial.

Madeleine McCann suspect 'is plotting way to get an early release'

Brueckner is currently scheduled to be released in September 2025, but the German is planning an appeal against the conviction keeping him behind bars.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[ChatteringBirds]

for me the Judge was in a hard position. She had witnesses that kept contradicting themselves and each other. She somehow to get to the truth of what happened.

By allowing the defense to tell a rape victim to change where she's sitting so that she'll feel more vulnerable, and by bringing a child to tears?

BTW in the U.S., they will sometimes even allow children to testify via video, and children do not always have to see the accused in the courtroom. There are humane ways of conducting a courtroom and still getting all needed testimony. If people are saying they were shocked by how some witnesses were treated, then something was happening that wasn't about getting to the truth. IMO.

 

[Trivento]

The Mail quotes the sun so its probably rubbish, but I doubt CB is planning any thing but his lawyers might be , still we had all kinds of rubbish pre trial it won't stop post trial.

Madeleine McCann suspect 'is plotting way to get an early release'

Brueckner is currently scheduled to be released in September 2025, but the German is planning an appeal against the conviction keeping him behind bars.

www.dailymail.co.uk

That Mail article implies CB was cleared of DM rape .. that's simply incorrect .
Their linked Sun article doesn't say this.
Recently the Sun seem to have been generally more accurate than the Mail in CB reporting I've noticed..imo

 

[Mex]

BIB, that is HCW’s opinion but does he really know that? It’s not the first time his loose lips have blurted things he seems incapable of proving. Surely based on this recent trial everything he has previously said must be brought into question.

The judge was clear in her ruling that the evidence was insufficient to prove a crime had been committed under German law - a subject she understands.

I can’t see how an appeal will change the ruling, the evidence just isn’t there. Many on this forum suggested that a charge was only possible if a conviction were almost certain - that turned out to be completely wrong.

The purpose of the appeal is not to change the ruling.

The purpose of the appeal is for the whole trial to be conducted once more from start to finish. All in the interest of justice.

The enormity of making that request before the High Court judges cannot be underestimated. And the validity of the prosecutors doing so will be determined by the reaction of the High Court to it.

 

[Mex]

The Mail quotes the sun so its probably rubbish, but I doubt CB is planning any thing but his lawyers might be , still we had all kinds of rubbish pre trial it won't stop post trial.

Madeleine McCann suspect 'is plotting way to get an early release'

Brueckner is currently scheduled to be released in September 2025, but the German is planning an appeal against the conviction keeping him behind bars.

www.dailymail.co.uk

The 2019 aggravated rape verdict most certainly has not been overturned as a result of the current debacle.

I believe there have been noises made about appealing it yet again. If I find the cite for that I will post it.

 

[UK Girl]

By allowing the defense to tell a rape victim to change where she's sitting so that she'll feel more vulnerable, and by bringing a child to tears?

BTW in the U.S., they will sometimes even allow children to testify via video, and children do not always have to see the accused in the courtroom. There are humane ways of conducting a courtroom and still getting all needed testimony. If people are saying they were shocked by how some witnesses were treated, then something was happening that wasn't about getting to the truth. IMO.

She did have the option of doing it without seeing him. Whether the prosecution didn't tell her I don't know. Only the Guardian has said she was made to face him. HCW said he was shocked yes. Personally I have been shocked by his team. It seems better for them to blame everyone else rather than accept their own railings

 

[UK Girl]

BIB, that is HCW’s opinion but does he really know that? It’s not the first time his loose lips have blurted things he seems incapable of proving. Surely based on this recent trial everything he has previously said must be brought into question.

The judge was clear in her ruling that the evidence was insufficient to prove a crime had been committed under German law - a subject she understands.

I can’t see how an appeal will change the ruling, the evidence just isn’t there. Many on this forum suggested that a charge was only possible if a conviction were almost certain - that turned out to be completely wrong.

They can only appeal if there's an error in her ruling anyway. Her ruling makes total sense to me.

 

[Mex]

​

Judge Criticized for Lack of Empathy During HB's Testimony Against CB​

HB, who alleges she was raped by prime suspect in MM disappearance CB, faced a gruelling 10 hours of questioning during her testimony in a German court. Many criticized the presiding judge for her insensitive and probing questions, which sparked gasps from the public gallery.

Presiding judge UE has been criticised for her lack of sensitivity and empathy with HB. She asked questions that prompted regular gasps from the public gallery

The Co Westmeath woman submitted to 10 gruelling hours of testimony over two days while her alleged attacker, CB, sat metres away from her, impassive and silent, in a crumpled blue linen jacket.
He was accused of raping her repeatedly during a violent attack in June 2004 at her home in Portugal where she was working as a holiday rep.

Throughout the lengthy questioning, conducted through an interpreter, HB remained calm and composed as she fielded questions about her character, her relationships and her sex life. Throughout proceedings, CB’s all-male legal team repeatedly interrupted the female judge and prosecutor, talking over them – and, at times it seemed, down to them.

https://headtopics.com/ie/judge-criticized-for-lack-of-empathy-during-hazel-behan-s-60035979

Many independent newspaper reports detail extraordinary behaviour in the Braunschweig court. Not too much was made of it the foreign press probably thinking that is how it is done in Germany.
But the German press should have known better.

The proximity of the seating arrangement was commented on quite a few times. One wonders what the reaction would have been had reporters known at the time, that had been deliberately initiated and orchestrated by the defence team.

 

[Davieson]

I think Portuguese witnesses were by video link.

 

[Mex]

I think Portuguese witnesses were by video link.

One was.
One wasn't.
But there is an extreme lack of clarity and information in general about which witnesses were called and the sequence of when or if they were called.
My opinion