Gilgo Beach LISK Serial Killer, Rex Heuermann, charged with 3 murders, July 2023 #9

[Ruminations]

In my opinion, there was nothing remarkable about Karen's appearance. She wasn't overly heavy or overly skinny...not 6 foot tall or 3 feet tall. She didn't have platinum blond hair, or pink hair. No "droopy" eye, or large birthmark. Just nothing that made her particularly stand out. She looked like a hundred girls I might have run into at a flea market. And yet somehow, this swinger picks her up for just one night, and now can say with certainty that this girl was Karen, 20+ years later ?

I mean...okay. I guess.

ETA: Add in the bullet points of a Christmas tree, a belt , Valentines Day, a sea shell on a shelf, the fire in the back yard...just seems, well, scripted. But that's just me.

Well, a face with a strikingly intense emotion is more likely to be "recorded" and brought back again years later.

All the same, I'm not sure why it would matter much if it the witness were not convinced it was Karen Vergata. If her statement was more like "I have a hunch it was her because it was near Valentine's Day, but I could be wrong," woukd that make all the rest of her narrative uninteresting? Detective and gf go to Rex's house with a homeless and hungry woman just out of jail because they saw an ad placed for swingers on a message board at Le Trapeze?

To me, this is very significant, even without Karen Vergata being the woman brought along.

(I do believe the witness, FWIW. I think Ray would have left that detail out if it were iffy.)

MOO

 

[Baby baby Jane]

What I find credible is Harrison was at the press conference.

But, I think you bring up great points.

The photo of Karen released last summer was not current to the time she went missing - was she identifiable to a one-night friend by an old photo? It was mentioned in the news that Karen was last heard from on Valentine's Day. I recall seeing photos of the Heurermann living room with a Christmas tree. A belt has been in the news. LE involvement in the case has been long speculated. I recall a neighbor of Heurermann mentioning he once saw Rex start a fire in the middle of the night. Karen running outside a house reminds me of known info about Gilbert. The basement has been in the news. Rex's place of employment in midtown is known info.

Her info could have been gleaned by paying attention to the news coverage. ?

Yeah, I would be skeptical....but would Harrison be at the press conference if the witness wasn't legit? Idk!

jmo

It’s all interesting, but other than naming her police officer boyfriend and getting him to talk & confirm info and add, none of her info is likely able to stand up to cross examination nor is it conclusive. Massapequa’s a big place, many similar looking homes in suburban developments with families with similar things, probably got at least a few swinger couples in the 1990s. Driver would have definitely needed a map as pre-GPS, so driver could recall something. It’s not clear if she knew Rex and Asa by name, they have unusual, memorable names but her statement doesn’t state that she knew them by name. Nor does she say if they met at Trapeze before trip to LI (I’ve read what I think is full statement)
This witness would be asked all kinds of questions about remembering addresses, furnishings, couples faces, other couples and other partners from 1995,1996,1997. She says her relationship w RW started “in” or “around” 1996, Valentine’s Day is only 6 weeks into the year …. They swung around holidays and Valentines would be first holiday of that year. If he’s not her only swing partner from the 90s, then her “first” might by be more memorable, or her first swing with RW, on a holiday? There are so many questions she would get asked by defense: How often did you pick up extra women, did you know their names, what did you talk about for an hour long ride, did you use drugs, get high, drink, repeat swings, join other clubs, how many a year, ever get paid. Did you and RW ever talk about your concerns from that night, did he know KV before that night, talk in car on way home, etc etc.
It’s interesting and hopefully it leads to more info, for me the statement poses a lot of questions.

 

[Ruminations]

It’s all interesting, but other than naming her police officer boyfriend and getting him to talk & confirm info and add, none of her info is likely able to stand up to cross examination nor is it conclusive. Massapequa’s a big place, many similar looking homes in suburban developments with families with similar things, probably got at least a few swinger couples in the 1990s. Driver would have definitely needed a map as pre-GPS, so driver could recall something. It’s not clear if she knew Rex and Asa by name, they have unusual, memorable names but her statement doesn’t state that she knew them by name. Nor does she say if they met at Trapeze before trip to LI (I’ve read what I think is full statement)
This witness would be asked all kinds of questions about remembering addresses, furnishings, couples faces, other couples and other partners from 1995,1996,1997. She says her relationship w RW started “in” or “around” 1996, Valentine’s Day is only 6 weeks into the year …. They swung around holidays and Valentines would be first holiday of that year. If he’s not her only swing partner from the 90s, then her “first” might by be more memorable, or her first swing with RW, on a holiday? There are so many questions she would get asked by defense: How often did you pick up extra women, did you know their names, what did you talk about for an hour long ride, did you use drugs, get high, drink, repeat swings, join other clubs, how many a year, ever get paid. Did you and RW ever talk about your concerns from that night, did he know KV before that night, talk in car on way home, etc etc.
It’s interesting and hopefully it leads to more info, for me the statement poses a lot of questions.

IMO, the statement is likely valuable in ID other witnesses who might know quite a lot. Notably RW.

John Ray and Rodney Harrison both are going to be pulled through the mud at any opportunity . (Rodney will be okay if he is leaving quietly, but this presser suggests he may be willing to stir things up outside of the SCPD kitchen on his way out, so I expect the dirt slinging and rumors posted on Newsday articles to commence shortly after he gains traction.)

The last thing they need is to drop this affidavit and for their enemies to have a valid reason to debunk it. I think the odds of the witness conflating her memories with news stories and/or lying are slim to none. The witness, too, could be making statements RW wishes to keep quiet, or that might anger the old guard anti-investigation detectives.

This is not a risk John Ray or Harrison would take. And the witness is the most vulnerable of all.

It seems to me that being busted for perjury and filing a false statement would be the least of her worries. She has nothing to gain.

MOO

 

[sds71]

Lawyers involved in suspected serial killer Rex Heuermann's case share close connections to each other:​

Michael J. Brown, the lead defense attorney representing Heuermann, is a veteran lawyer whose connections in the Suffolk legal community run deep. Brown, who has been in private practice since 1995, started his legal career as an assistant district attorney in the Suffolk District Attorney's Office with Ray Tierney, now the elected district attorney. Tierney, a former federal prosecutor who is leading the team of prosecutors trying the case against Heuermann, will likely square off against Brown in a Riverhead courtroom if the case eventually goes to trial.

Also in the mix is Robert Macedonio, a longtime criminal defense attorney and matrimonial lawyer who shared a legal practice with Brown for a decade, and is now representing Heuermann's estranged wife, Asa Ellerup, in her divorce action.

Justice Timothy Mazzei, as a prosecutor in 1989, Mazzei lead the prosecution effort in the retrial of the John Pius murder case. Pius was the 13-year-old whose body was found behind a Smithtown elementary school in 1979 with stones crammed down his throat.

A key witness in the Pius case was ex-Suffolk Police Chief James Burke, a convicted felon for beating a handcuffed prisoner inside a police precinct in 2012 and then conspiring to cover it up. Burke has gotten into more legal trouble recently, with his August arrest for sexual misconduct at a county park. His case is pending…

Vess Mitev, the Stony Brook-based defense attorney and Ray's former law partner — the relationship apparently ended acrimonously, though neither side would discuss the details publicly — is representing Ellerup's two adult children.

"We just went our separate ways business-wise," said Mitev, when asked about leaving Ray's firm in 2020. "Business partnerships, like any relationship, sometimes work out and sometimes end. And this one had run its course."

Ray, for his part, called the parting "a terrible thing that happened" and added: "I don't really care about him at all. I don't really think about him. My tendency is when people hurt me, I just leave them alone."

Gilgo Beach killings: Lawyers involved in suspected serial killer Rex Heuermann's case share close connections to each other

Dissecting the connections in the Gilgo Beach case among Suffolk's legal community.

www.newsday.com

 

[girlhasnoname]

Lawyers involved in suspected serial killer Rex Heuermann's case share close connections to each other:​

Michael J. Brown, the lead defense attorney representing Heuermann, is a veteran lawyer whose connections in the Suffolk legal community run deep. Brown, who has been in private practice since 1995, started his legal career as an assistant district attorney in the Suffolk District Attorney's Office with Ray Tierney, now the elected district attorney. Tierney, a former federal prosecutor who is leading the team of prosecutors trying the case against Heuermann, will likely square off against Brown in a Riverhead courtroom if the case eventually goes to trial.

Also in the mix is Robert Macedonio, a longtime criminal defense attorney and matrimonial lawyer who shared a legal practice with Brown for a decade, and is now representing Heuermann's estranged wife, Asa Ellerup, in her divorce action.

Justice Timothy Mazzei, as a prosecutor in 1989, Mazzei lead the prosecution effort in the retrial of the John Pius murder case. Pius was the 13-year-old whose body was found behind a Smithtown elementary school in 1979 with stones crammed down his throat.

A key witness in the Pius case was ex-Suffolk Police Chief James Burke, a convicted felon for beating a handcuffed prisoner inside a police precinct in 2012 and then conspiring to cover it up. Burke has gotten into more legal trouble recently, with his August arrest for sexual misconduct at a county park. His case is pending…

Vess Mitev, the Stony Brook-based defense attorney and Ray's former law partner — the relationship apparently ended acrimonously, though neither side would discuss the details publicly — is representing Ellerup's two adult children.

"We just went our separate ways business-wise," said Mitev, when asked about leaving Ray's firm in 2020. "Business partnerships, like any relationship, sometimes work out and sometimes end. And this one had run its course."

Ray, for his part, called the parting "a terrible thing that happened" and added: "I don't really care about him at all. I don't really think about him. My tendency is when people hurt me, I just leave them alone."

Gilgo Beach killings: Lawyers involved in suspected serial killer Rex Heuermann's case share close connections to each other

Dissecting the connections in the Gilgo Beach case among Suffolk's legal community.

www.newsday.com

Oh, this case is starting to sound like the Murdaugh coverup and corruption saga. Wowzers.

MOO

 

[Baby baby Jane]

It’s all interesting, but other than naming her police officer boyfriend and getting him to talk & confirm info and add, none of her info is likely able to stand up to cross examination nor is it conclusive. Massapequa’s a big place, many similar looking homes in suburban developments with families with similar things, probably got at least a few swinger couples in the 1990s. Driver would have definitely needed a map as pre-GPS, so driver could recall something. It’s not clear if she knew Rex and Asa by name, they have unusual, memorable names but her statement doesn’t state that she knew them by name. Nor does she say if they met at Trapeze before trip to LI (I’ve read what I think is full statement)
This witness would be asked all kinds of questions about remembering addresses, furnishings, couples faces, other couples and other partners from 1995,1996,1997. She says her relationship w RW started “in” or “around” 1996, Valentine’s Day is only 6 weeks into the year …. They swung around holidays and Valentines would be first holiday of that year. If he’s not her only swing partner from the 90s, then her “first” might by be more memorable, or her first swing with RW, on a holiday? There are so many questions she would get asked by defense: How often did you pick up extra women, did you know their names, what did you talk about for an hour long ride, did you use drugs, get high, drink, repeat swings, join other clubs, how many a year, ever get paid. Did you and RW ever talk about your concerns from that night, did he know KV before that night, talk in car on way home, etc etc.
It’s interesting and hopefully it leads to more info, for me the statement poses a lot of questions.

The other detail about the “brought her from her country”? Media says she was born on LI, NY making her a US citizen, high school on LI, hardly needing to be brought to the US. If she has been US citizen since birth, her son is also US citizen (subject to paperwork) even if he was born in Iceland. I doubt there would be a conversation about Asa needing Rex to get to America if she was born 5 miles away in Farmingdale as reported in media.

 

[Justice101]

thanks for the updated people!

 

[Betty P]

Exclusive: Suffolk County sheriff says potential key witnesses in Gilgo Beach murders case are in same jail as suspect Rex Heuermann

The investigation into the Gilgo Beach serial killer has followed suspect Rex Heuermann behind bars.

www.cbsnews.com

"My staff has interviewed 141 sex workers so far," Suffolk County Sheriff Errol Toulon said.

"So far we've had 12 women that have claimed interactions with Rex Heuermann," Toulon said.

"Whether they actually had a physical encounter, was it a phone call, was it through social media. Anything we can gather from them will be very helpful," Toulon said.

I think if they work hard enough, they will be able to validate many of these stories about Rex H.

OTOH, it might work best if these sex workers tell their stories to someone like John Ray, then have the details validated by LE. Given the history of the system in Suffolk Co, etc. JMO

Incidents that took place in the late 1990's and early 2000's aren't ancient history. There's a lot of information/data that can still be accessed to verify witness statements. JMO

 

[Bree1950]

Maybe, unknown to the witness, everything was planned by her former Narcotics cop boyfriend and RH. Maybe it was the boyfriend who lied about seeing the ad for the swingers party. And maybe had arranged to collect KV, making out it was random?

I’m not sure it wasn’t someone just saying they were a Cop?!

 

[Bree1950]

LOL, I'm thick; I need a less subtle hint. Who was covering for RH?

I feel Shannon saw Rex arrive at Brewer’s and was terrified from her earlier encounter with him at the Hotel as described in the affidavit from the cab driver. This is what makes sense to me in regard to her sounding so frightened and terrified during the 911 Call. If RH and his wife were swingers and used to having couples come and go a lot from the house, his wife, most likely, wouldn’t think anything was awry for home to have girls coming and going. Some people can deceive people - it happens every day! It would not surprise me if RH had plausible stories for his behavior and was believed by those around him.

 

[Bree1950]

In addition to Macedonio's history, I always found it fagaze that a criminal defense attorney was representing AE in a divorce. Wasn't it also uncovered that he was somewhat a family friend, and represented Rex in some of his other court cases? I know I read it here, but can't find it. I really don't think Macedonio is acting in the best interest of AE. Something just doesn't sit right with me. MOO

In my State, the Bar would not allow him to represent her because he would have a conflict of interest.

 

[Betty P]

I feel Shannon saw Rex arrive at Brewer’s and was terrified from her earlier encounter with him at the Hotel as described in the affidavit from the cab driver. This is what makes sense to me in regard to her sounding so frightened and terrified during the 911 Call. If RH and his wife were swingers and used to having couples come and go a lot from the house, his wife, most likely, wouldn’t think anything was awry for home to have girls coming and going. Some people can deceive people - it happens every day! It would not surprise me if RH had plausible stories for his behavior and was believed by those around him.

I thought the same about Shannan at Joseph Brewer's party. Rex H. is a very distinctive-looking person. Very tall, very prominent features, etc. That's why these womens' stories are believable, because they recognized him easily, even years later. I've no doubt Shannan recognized him immediately at Brewer's house. She did go inside that night, but wasn't there for long before Brewer allegedly (?) came out and asked Pak to come inside and remove her.

The only facts we know from that night, when she was in Brewer's house, was her conversation on the 911 recording. She knew they were going to kill her and nothing would have convinced her more than if Rex H was there. I wonder if he was the one who called for her specifically?

This could have also been a situation similar to the swinger's party at Rex H's house in 1996. He could have engaged in group sex encounters, then later killed the sex worker after the other participants had left. Perhaps Shannan knew Rex would kill her, but the other people at Brewer's party had no intention of doing that.

 

[minazoe]

I thought the same about Shannan at Joseph Brewer's party. Rex H. is a very distinctive-looking person. Very tall, very prominent features, etc. That's why these womens' stories are believable, because they recognized him easily, even years later. I've no doubt Shannan recognized him immediately at Brewer's house. She did go inside that night, but wasn't there for long before Brewer allegedly (?) came out and asked Pak to come inside and remove her.

The only facts we know from that night, when she was in Brewer's house, was her conversation on the 911 recording. She knew they were going to kill her and nothing would have convinced her more than if Rex H was there. I wonder if he was the one who called for her specifically?

This could have also been a situation similar to the swinger's party at Rex H's house in 1996. He could have engaged in group sex encounters, then later killed the sex worker after the other participants had left. Perhaps Shannan knew Rex would kill her, but the other people at Brewer's party had no intention of doing that.

I think you nailed it here, Betty.

 

[madamx]

I have been thinking about what the cabbie said about Shannon calling a cab to the motel to drive her to the Ronkonkoma train station.
Didn’t Shannen have a driver? I have read that Pak was her driver but also her boyfriend was her driver. If she took the train at Ronkonkoma that would be a hour back to Manhattan and then have to either take the Path train or a Bus or another Cab to make it back all the way to NJ. That is a trek.
Does anyone know if Shannen always had a driver or not.

 

[Just K]

I have been thinking about what the cabbie said about Shannon calling a cab to the motel to drive her to the Ronkonkoma train station.
Didn’t Shannen have a driver? I have read that Pak was her driver but also her boyfriend was her driver. If she took the train at Ronkonkoma that would be a hour back to Manhattan and then have to either take the Path train or a Bus or another Cab to make it back all the way to NJ. That is a trek.
Does anyone know if Shannen always had a driver or not.

I keep thinking that sometime before 2016 another young woman was missing near or at Ronkonkoma. It’s been bothering me since the affidavit of the cab driver.

I found it, the woman was abducted out of a cab company after arguing with a man.

Police: Woman Dragged, Assaulted Near LIRR's Ronkonkoma Station Is Safe

A woman caught on surveillance video apparently being beaten and abducted last week at the Ronkonkoma Long Island Rail Road station has come forward and is safe, police said.

www.cbsnews.com

 

[Keith417]

Oct 18, 2023
Attorney Ray's office says it has new information about suspect Rex Heuermann in the killings of Shannan Gilbert and Karen Vergata.

Streamed live 73 minutes ago #livenews #crime #longisland
John Ray, an attorney for the families of two of the women found dead along Gilgo Beach on New York’s Long Island over a decade ago, announced what he says is new evidence against Rex Heuermann. Heuermann was charged in July with the murder of three of the women found at Gilgo Beach. Ray said the new evidence connects Heuermann to two more victims, Shannan Gilbert and Karen Vergata. Heuermann has not been charged in connection to the deaths of Gilbert and Vergata.

All I can say is WOW!!!

 

[Keith417]

Whats everyones thoughts? Is this credible?

LE standing up there is interesting

I always believed that John Ray was the good guy and that he was only made to look crazy by the bad guys pretending to be the good guys. I also thought it was very suspicious that a young sex worker ( Shannan Gilbert) who advertised on Craig’s list and back page called 911 saying that they are trying to kill me and then is never seen or heard from again. Her mother receives a call from a doctor on oak beach claiming he ran a home for wayward girls and that that Shannan was in his care but ran away. Then that doctor (Peter Hackett) denies Mari Gilbert’s claims saying he never contacted her but we find out that he was actually lying. When looking for Shannan Gilbert they start finding sex workers left and right and what a coincidence some of those sex workers advertised also on Craig’s list and back page.. so sorry but that’s too many coincidences for me but I believe this is way bigger than we think and that’s why this case has so many twist and turns and wasn’t solved 13 years ago. A lot of police seem to have connections to this case and a lot of rich people involved .

 

[girlhasnoname]

I have been thinking about what the cabbie said about Shannon calling a cab to the motel to drive her to the Ronkonkoma train station.
Didn’t Shannen have a driver? I have read that Pak was her driver but also her boyfriend was her driver. If she took the train at Ronkonkoma that would be a hour back to Manhattan and then have to either take the Path train or a Bus or another Cab to make it back all the way to NJ. That is a trek.
Does anyone know if Shannen always had a driver or not.

I've always been under the impression Shannon had a driver who took her to the house that night.

 

[Keith417]

I've been sitting with all of this new information all night. Some thoughts:

The reason Heuermann is sitting in a jail cell right now is because of Rodney Harrison. Harrison formed the task force within weeks of getting the job and then the task force had Heuermanns name within the month.

We learn today that one of the witnesses, who signed an affidavit, was taken to Heuermanns house along with Karen Vergata by a NYPD narcotics cop. Fun fact: Rodney Harrison is a former NYPD undercover narcotics cop. I know the witness says that they found Heuermann's house from a listing at the singers club but who saw that listing - the cop? Had he been there before? Why would this cop want to leave Karen Vergata who was clearly in distress according to the witness.

The moonlighting cab driver witness claims Heuermann tried to scam Shannan Gilbert and then she helped Shannan escape. Heuermann knew he had been seen and possibly requested the driver later on - telling her he was going to kill her. Was this after Shannan was murdered? Did Heuermann go over the events in his head and think this witness was the one who could possibly link him with Shannan? Heuermann had what appeared to be a police lanyard - fake or a trinket from a cop friend?

Shannan ending up at J Brewer's house in Oak Beach - rumors of it being a party house. Possibly swingers parties? Ex SCPD James Burke attended sex parties in Oak Beach. Heuermann said to be a swinger by multiple witnesses. Again, NYPD cop driving sex workers out to Heuermann's house and leaving them there. SCPD head Spota covering for Burke bungling this case for years.

NYPD/SCPD... Heuermann... Am I losing my mind or is there a bit of a pipeline starting to appear.

Come November, Rodney Harrison is most likely out of a job. The front runner for County Executive is Ed Romaine (R) and most likely will replace Harrison with someone who isn't a city slicker and also *looks* more like the politicians out in Suffolk - if you catch my drift. Harrison is the first black commissioner in the SCPDs history. He was also the first black Chief of Detectives in NYPDs 200 years.

I don't think I'm going out on a limb here by saying Suffolk County DA Tierney does not like Rodney Harrison. I'm very familiar with the politics around these parts. Tierney's office releasing a statement making it look like Harrison has gone rogue from the investigation when in reality Harrison is the one that got things moving in the first place for the very first time. Now we have Attorney John Ray and Commissioner Rodney Harrison telling potential witnesses they can come to them if they don't trust the SCPD/NYPD/Task force and then we have the task force and SCPD telling potential witnesses, no, only come to us.

Wow.

I am hoping I am wrong but, come November, this case may stall. I don't like any of this one bit. That and after this press conference, I am sure there are more bodies out on LI. I want to know which woods Heuermann told the taxi driver to take them to.

Omg didn’t even put it together that Rex might have requested that lady cab driver to kill her or scare her bc she might have seen his face when she picked up Shannan Gilbert. He was brazen and definitely felt very comfortable that he was not going to jail if someone reported him and that reason could only be that he had inside connections with the law. You have to remember that Rex was just as powerful bc he was the one who approved for things to be built in the city so if someone wanted to build a house or whatever you would go to someone like Rex Heurermann. I am sure a lot of powerful people wanted to be in Rex’s good graces bc he could make or break your plans for any architecture needed to be built or ripped down etc. Maybe Rex’s wife was a mail ordered bride and once she came to America she found out that he was a lunatic but couldn’t break free easily bc of her son having special needs.. I know it will be very detrimental to this case if Harrison is voted out .. I also believe that the reason that poor cab driver didn’t come forward when she seen Shannan Gilbert’s face on the news back in 2010 is bc she knew that she would have wounded up dead bc she new cops were involved and she probably always new who the Long Island serial killer was (Rex Heurermann) but was so scared bc he already threatened to kill her.

 

[Keith417]

So coincidental how strong incriminating evidence against Heuermann sat buried in files for 12 years. The witness who provided it was also frustrated that SCPD never followed up on it. Just one of many witnesses whose information was ignored and discredited, but DNA and digital data proved it to be true.

I have a feeling that further investigations of these new witnesses information will also validate their stories. Will it just be buried again after November?

Why was Asa Ellerups hair found on two of the victims bodies? Why does she have her own attorney?

Will anyone in LE continue to investigate all of Heuermann’s digital data to see if there are connections to people at Oak Beach? It’s not a stretch of the imagination. For a serial killer, Rex H was a very social guy, liked to join groups.

Theres a strong impression, JMO, that this investigation isn’t complete.

100% agree with everything you said.