Gilgo Beach LISK Serial Killer, Rex Heuermann, charged with 4 murders, July 2023 #10

[NoSpoonFeeding]

Yes. I understood your direct question and answered it directly.

Tierney has expressed outright hostility to important new evidence; his delivery method was gaslighting.

What you have posted above does not indicate that I misunderstood your question. It only shows why his behavior was so deeply disappointing after those statements. He made a promise and broke it.

It is impossible to believe Tierney was blindsided in any way by this information. He knew it, knew of the tipsters who approached LE first with no response, knew everything that John Ray and Harrison told him or his staff directly. To lie and say he was blindsided confirms that he took no actions on that information in the past, IMO.

Commissioner Harrison seemed extremely uncomfortable delivering this information by press conference, but he politely as possible said that approaching LE and having the tips taken seriously was not an option for these witnesses. It's both sad and creative that the heroic commissioner took that action to patch a broken LE investigation. I'm sure he wished as much as anyone that these leads would be taken every bit as seriously by LE if he did not have that conference. By having the conference and not doing the more comfortable thing, Harrison showed us that the more comfortable thing could not be done. Obviousl, Harrison concluded it was not possible to just taking the info from the witnesses and incorporate it into the task force investigation quietly.

At the risk of being too didactic, that one announced one would not do a thing does not make it true that someone has not done said thing. Only not doing the thing makes that true. Then to claim without credibility you were blindsided adds deception.

Tierney could undo the damage at any time. He could announce that he welcomes tips. He could say that he is addressing issues that made these particular tips come through John Ray, which is because of SCPD problems. John Ray was just there willing to fill the gap left by LE.

What is not helpful is Tierney's gaslighting announcement that he is not trying the case in public. No one is asking him to do that, To express thanks and respect for tips, to promise the tip line will take the public seriously, and mention that the investigation continues is saying nothing about the case in public. He Is being deceptive by claiming he is not trying the case in public, as If respectfully taking tips is the same thing as trying the case in public.

MOO


Edited to add: The blather about the prosecutor not overseeing the the investigation is not exactly untrue, but it is again, disceptive. Tierney claimed to be blindsided, as if he should be in the know. If he has no stake/information in the investigative part of LE, why is he chiming in hostility to the witnesses and information? Why is he saying the information should come through LE? Why is he commenting on additional detetectives finally assigned? He can't have it both ways.

(incidentally, his initial reaction to Harrison and Ray was released impossibly quickly, virtually during the Ray/Harrison presser, further showing how unbelievable it is that he was blindsided. It appeared he was well aware of what was going to happen, and timed his gaslighting go to LE comments to share the breaking news wave.)

MOO

My question wasn't directed to you and you did not answer it directly. MOO Who in LE is refusing to investigate and what are the certain things they are refusing to investigate? Your opinion that Tierney's words are "hostile" to the investigation don't answer that question, he is not conducting a homicide investigation, he is preparing 3 cases for trial.
No one has announced what, if anything, has come of Rays' "witnesses" information. We don't know if it was of any use to the prosecution of the three charged homicide cases, or if it was useful to homicide detectives for the unsolved cases. I would think it was far too early to conclude anything.

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

Did Rex join these groups to meet some need or was his membership a step along the way to becoming a killer?

Attorney Ray made several comments about people who engage in alternative lifestyles and he mixes up swinging, swapping and BDSM, concluding that such activities "have consequences" and could be a factor in this case. To me, Ray seems judgmental and is unaware that a significant number of mainstream adults participate in these activities.
This lifestyle has nothing to do with the development of the brain of a sexually motivated serial killer.
A pairing of sadistic violence and sex is hard-wired long before adulthood. RH's internet searches show exactly what type of stimulation he sought.

 

[Betty P]

My question wasn't directed to you and you did not answer it directly. MOO Who in LE is refusing to investigate and what are the certain things they are refusing to investigate? Your opinion that Tierney's words are "hostile" to the investigation don't answer that question, he is not conducting a homicide investigation, he is preparing 3 cases for trial.
No one has announced what, if anything, has come of Rays' "witnesses" information. We don't know if it was of any use to the prosecution of the three charged homicide cases, or if it was useful to homicide detectives for the unsolved cases. I would think it was far too early to conclude anything.

Per my previous link, Tierney's office is a member of the LISK Task Force, so are involved in investigating the murders of the LISK victims. His team probably has a lot of work to do, its a large case with RH going to trial and ongoing investigations into the murders of the other victims.

To do its work effectively the Suffolk DA's office needs to gather as much information as possible to make sure the killer is effectively charged. IANAL, but I assume its necessary to encourage as many tips w/ follow up investigation and interviews to ensure the right charges apply.

Sure, Suffolk DA's office is busy, but in similar cases, some state LE, AG's and governors assign state experts to help with the work.

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

Per my previous link, Tierney's office is a member of the LISK Task Force, so are involved in investigating the murders of the LISK victims. His team probably has a lot of work to do, its a large case with RH going to trial and ongoing investigations into the murders of the other victims.

To do its work effectively the Suffolk DA's office needs to gather as much information as possible to make sure the killer is effectively charged. IANAL, but I assume its necessary to encourage as many tips w/ follow up investigation and interviews to ensure the right charges apply.

Sure, Suffolk DA's office is busy, but in similar cases, some state LE, AG's and governors assign state experts to help with the work.

Per my previous post, this does nothing to back up a claim that unnamed persons are "refusing to investigate certain things".
Opinions about Tierney and the "tips" is not relevant to my asking for specifics of who is currently refusing to investigate something.
Tierney being involved as the DA supervising the prosecution does not make him a homicide investigator nor in the chain of command in a police dept and his comments do not stop or thwart investigators from doing their jobs. But again, no one can claim that these tips in question are not being currently investigated.

 

[Ruminations]

My question wasn't directed to you and you did not answer it directly. MOO Who in LE is refusing to investigate and what are the certain things they are refusing to investigate? Your opinion that Tierney's words are "hostile" to the investigation don't answer that question, he is not conducting a homicide investigation, he is preparing 3 cases for trial.
No one has announced what, if anything, has come of Rays' "witnesses" information. We don't know if it was of any use to the prosecution of the three charged homicide cases, or if it was useful to homicide detectives for the unsolved cases. I would think it was far too early to conclude anything.

Tierney actively forced himself into the news cycle created by the John Ray/Rodney Harrison presser.

I didn't put him in the middle of more than the 3 prosecutions. He did. He didn't ignore the investigative information or stay in the prosecutorial lane.

He swerved right into investigation of his own free will, commenting moments after the presser that the way the investigation was being done was inappropriate. Saying in substance that the info should have been with the broken tip line, even though much info was offered that way, and in private, making it seem like he supported LE's ability to ignore the information in private. In my opinion, the lane change was damaging, because it accepted tip line dysfunction. It was okay with him if witnesses called the tip line and got no response, then just faded away.

He can't have it both ways,"only" concerning himself with the prosecution when confronted with his wrong doing, and cliticizing the investigation, in a hostile, gaslighting way, before a friendly audience.

He is part of the task force that includes investigations. If there is information connecting anyone to Shannan or Karen's death (and that person need not be Rex) he is going to be involve in prosecuting those murders, too. How do you think it would feel to be a relative of Karen or Shannan? Learning that the person who could eventually prosecute crimes done to them is sending tipsters to a tip line that doesn't take tips? Those cases are not charged yet. But if they are during Tierne's term, he could be the prosecutor. How do you think it feels for the survivors of Shannan and Karen to hear the person who could prosecute their case is expressing contempt for investigative progress. It makes it seem like he doesn't want the murders to be solved, let alone prosecuted.

Think of the victims.

MOO

 

[I am not Sherlock H.]

Currently, or even in this past year, who is refusing to investigate "certain things" and what are those things and how does anyone know that those things aren't being investigated, especially since ongoing investigations aren't going to be made public?

I will concede that I am not on the inside of any of this investigation, or others related to it. So yes, there is no way to know exactly what is, or what is not, occurring.

I am confused by the status of any investigation into the death of Shannan Gilbert. I am not certain of the latest, but it is not apparent whether that case is still an open unsolved case, or if it has been closed. I also cannot recall whether the manner or cause of death for Ms. Gilbert has been fully or officially determined. But if it hasn’t been determined, then it is not clear how it could be deemed resolved or closed.

Sadly, there are many victims in this and the related cases. And one can be glad that the Gilbert family and friends pressed so hard for her disappearance and case to be addressed. Absent that, it isn’t clear how many victims might have been found. Or, how many might still remain missing or lost.

Fortunately there is no statute of limitations for murder. However, there can be for other lesser crimes. And I hope that any investigative needs are being addressed post-haste. It would be most unfortunate if something was not being conducted well or ‘slow walked’ and the clock runs out on a crime that could have been charged. MOO

 

[Forest_Wood]

Attorney Ray made several comments about people who engage in alternative lifestyles and he mixes up swinging, swapping and BDSM, concluding that such activities "have consequences" and could be a factor in this case. To me, Ray seems judgmental and is unaware that a significant number of mainstream adults participate in these activities.
This lifestyle has nothing to do with the development of the brain of a sexually motivated serial killer.
A pairing of sadistic violence and sex is hard-wired long before adulthood. RH's internet searches show exactly what type of stimulation he sought.

What is the difference between swinging, swapping and BDSM? What percentage of mainstream adults participate in these activities? It's the kind of lifestyle that would be foreign to most people I would think. I wonder what he meant by "have consequences". MOO.

 

[Betty P]

JMO, I can't speak for Mr. Ray, but I assume his many years of experience representing people from all walks of life have taught him a lot about these matters. It doesn't negate the sworn testimony of witnesses who visited Rex H's home for one of these parties.

As for serial killers or other sex offenders being involved in alternative lifestyle groups, its possible some have while others haven't. The evidence available regarding serial and SA killers still isn't conclusive. Last I checked it seemed most exhibited abnormal personality traits from both nature and nurture, IOW influences that might be genetic or physiological and others that might have come from behavioral/environmental influences.

 

[Izzylizzy]

That's very interesting. I had wondered if it was possible that people like Rex H could be part of these groups without being detected. It's rather frightening to contemplate. I wonder how common it is for people like Rex to "hide in plain sight" in these groups. Did he eventually turn some folks off or make them suspicious?

I wonder if there are other members or former members of local BDSM groups who recognize Rex H, but aren't coming forward? Though we don't know, its also possible some former members might want the investigation to end where it is.

If they ever had phone/text/email contact with Rex then they don't have to worry about contacting LE.
LE has the info and will find them.

 

[Ruminations]

What is the difference between swinging, swapping and BDSM? What percentage of mainstream adults participate in these activities? It's the kind of lifestyle that would be foreign to most people I would think. I wonder what he meant by "have consequences". MOO.

I think that is a fair question: we can't just assume that swinging, swapping, BSDM and whatever don't exist just because we don't participate in any, but by the same token, I am not sure if the community is really all that big, either.

I remember the early days, when body after body was being found...the commissioner and other representatives were saying sick things like, "The killer isn't killing random people; he's killing escorts." That's the only example of someone saying "actions have consequences type of thing about a life-style, bill-paying choice.

I do not recall John Ray saying that swinging has consequences. He said engaging in trafficking does. Including as the client. It creates an environment for easy abuse of the sex worker. He did judge AE harshly for apparently being aware that this kind of transaction going on in her own home (per witnesses) because it is a way of participating in a dangerous underground.

But, while Rex is innocent until proven guillty, John Ray has a point. I share his judgement that buying or selling sex is bad and dangerous. I don't think being judgemental about serious issues is a bad thing. I think there are things in this world that are inherently good and things that are inherently bad. Stating them is making judgements. That is much better IMO than thinking anything goes no matter what.

Other people I respect may have differing opinions. For example, I know a very respected virtual friend would tell me that it isn't sex trade that's wrong, it's the lack of regulation. That is also judgemental, although it's not negative on the buyer or seller. It's on governmental decisions to just prosecute and not regulate.

Every societal decision is a judgement. Every individual in society isn't going to agree completely on what judgements we collectively hold. But no matter what, everybody is judgemental (or amoral) and every society is judgemental.

Is John Ray more judgemental than average? And does he judge on pettier things than average?

I don't think so.

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

"The killer isn't killing random people; he's killing escorts." That's the only example of someone saying "actions have consequences type of thing about a life-style, bill-paying choice.

In the interview I'm referencing, Ray did not say anything about the lifestyle of escorts and the consequences of that work. Their deaths were a consequence of RH being a sexual predator, he said nothing like "consequences of their "bill pay choice".

In talking about swingers/partner swabbing/and a club that was busted but no one was arrested he says "Rex Huerumann is a cause and a consequence of that behavior" It may be legal "but look what you created, there is a monster among you" (referring to RH).
Then he links this behavior to Hueruman's interest (internet searches) involving abuse of children.
Hueruman's attraction to violent child SAM was not created by adult sex activities.

https://www.youtube.com/@JosephGiacalone

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

JMO, I can't speak for Mr. Ray, but I assume his many years of experience representing people from all walks of life have taught him a lot about these matters. It doesn't negate the sworn testimony of witnesses who visited Rex H's home for one of these parties.

As for serial killers or other sex offenders being involved in alternative lifestyle groups, its possible some have while others haven't. The evidence available regarding serial and SA killers still isn't conclusive. Last I checked it seemed most exhibited abnormal personality traits from both nature and nurture, IOW influences that might be genetic or physiological and others that might have come from behavioral/environmental influences.

The so called "sworn testimony' has not yet been announced as being reliable. To me, that's not relevant to Ray's assessment of those who participate in sexual activity with other consenting adults, with or without their partners.
I would suggest you research upside-down pineapples and read some about law-abiding, not sexually deviant, couples and singles.

Ray's blaming these activities for having any part in RH being a sexual predator is wrong and contrary to any known research on sexual development and violence merging in the brain.

Traumatic events in childhood and during puberty can have a profound effect on the developing brain.

From one article:
"Data from previously conducted interviews, serial killers’ manifestos, and historical records were used to conduct a comparative analysis of the behaviors, techniques, and identification signatures of serial killers. Data were coded and categorized to identify the relationship between sexual fantasies and violent behavior. Results indicated that serial killers base their signatures and modus operandi on sexual fantasies developed through childhood traumatic experiences. Findings may be used to improve the profiling of suspects and mitigate the threat of serial killers’ violent behavior resulting in positive social change."

From Peter Vronsky, author, historian, SK researcher
"And often that capacity is grafted onto a sexual impulse – aggression sexualized at puberty."

Factors That Influence Violence and Homicidal Ideation Among Serial Offenders

Many studies have been conducted to identify sources of violence in serial killers, including environmental, biological, and mental disposition factors. However, serial killers’ sexual fantasies had not been explored. The purpose of this qualitative descriptive phenomenological study was to...

scholarworks.waldenu.edu

What makes a serial killer?

The author of a new book explores why some people become killers, and others don’t

www.theguardian.com

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

What is the difference between swinging, swapping and BDSM? What percentage of mainstream adults participate in these activities? It's the kind of lifestyle that would be foreign to most people I would think. I wonder what he meant by "have consequences". MOO.

Ray said that the activities were legal but had consequences and RH was a cause and a consequence of it, "created a monster".

"The best evidence suggests around 4 percent of adults. That may not sound like many, but it means one couple in 25. If you know two dozen couples, chances are one participates in consensual non-monogamy" (link below)

Just briefly, for example, swingers that are known to each other have a party with other married and or single people may be there or not. Some people will have sex with each other. Many times no one will be wearing clothes, rules to stop the voyeurs.
Swapping - Usually a couple invites another couple over and they have sex with each other's partner. Many variations, too many to list.

"BDSM practices are no longer considered deviant behaviors, but, on the contrary, “common” behaviors that have been adopted by a large number of individuals."

What anyone considering trying BDSM sex should knowhttps://www.cosmopolitan.com/uk/love-sex/sex/a44875/bdsm-bondage-beginner-information/​

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0014385519300271#:~:text=BDSM%20practices%20are%20no%20longer,a%20large%20number%20of%20individuals.

"The best evidence suggests around 4 percent of adults. That may not sound like many, but it means one couple in 25. If you know two dozen couples, chances are one participates in consensual non-monogamy

Open Relationships Are More Popular Than You Might Think

Threesomes, swinging, group sex, polyamory—participation in consensual non-monogamy is growing, especially among young adults.

www.psychologytoday.com

 

[Ruminations]

The so called "sworn testimony' has not yet been announced as being reliable. To me, that's not relevant to Ray's assessment of those who participate in sexual activity with other consenting adults, with or without their partners.
I would suggest you research upside-down pineapples and read some about law-abiding, not sexually deviant, couples and singles.

Ray's blaming these activities for having any part in RH being a sexual predator is wrong and contrary to any known research on sexual development and violence merging in the brain.

Traumatic events in childhood and during puberty can have a profound effect on the developing brain.

From one article:
"Data from previously conducted interviews, serial killers’ manifestos, and historical records were used to conduct a comparative analysis of the behaviors, techniques, and identification signatures of serial killers. Data were coded and categorized to identify the relationship between sexual fantasies and violent behavior. Results indicated that serial killers base their signatures and modus operandi on sexual fantasies developed through childhood traumatic experiences. Findings may be used to improve the profiling of suspects and mitigate the threat of serial killers’ violent behavior resulting in positive social change."

From Peter Vronsky, author, historian, SK researcher
"And often that capacity is grafted onto a sexual impulse – aggression sexualized at puberty."

Factors That Influence Violence and Homicidal Ideation Among Serial Offenders

Many studies have been conducted to identify sources of violence in serial killers, including environmental, biological, and mental disposition factors. However, serial killers’ sexual fantasies had not been explored. The purpose of this qualitative descriptive phenomenological study was to...

scholarworks.waldenu.edu

What makes a serial killer?

The author of a new book explores why some people become killers, and others don’t

www.theguardian.com

John Ray vetted it. Rodney Harrison vetted it. The stories are internally consistent and do not contradict known facts.

More investigation is needed. That doesn't mean the stories are untrue or unreliable.

They are not "the case." They are witness testimonies. No more and no less.

They are not yet investigated enough to make part of the case, or to dismiss as irrelevant.

I'm not going to comment on the parts of your comment about swinging and pineapples, because it all just grosses me out.

But the evidence of the witness testimonies IS reliable. What remains to be seen is if they are a part of the current or future murder cases. We don't dismiss information because it's not already part of case! If we did that no murder would be solved! If I found a bloody knife at the scene of a stabbing, and shoook my shoulders and said, well, some people eat beef VERY rare, we'd never know if the knife was part of the case.

These reliable, vetted testimonies are evidence to follow where it leads. Just like a bloody knife.

<modsnip: personalizing>

MOO

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

It's very common for serial rapists and murderers to "hide" in the BDSM community. A friend of mine was part of that lifestyle and her husband was doing way more than he would tell her- she only found out after he got arrested in a sting operation.
Rex may have had accomplices, who will plead out.

BDSM activities are not illegal with consenting adults so what was the arrest for and in which state? I disagree this. What is a source for claiming it's common for serial rapists and murderers to hide in this "community".
Can some of the serial rapists and murderers be named?

 

[Forest_Wood]

Ray said that the activities were legal but had consequences and RH was a cause and a consequence of it, "created a monster".

"The best evidence suggests around 4 percent of adults. That may not sound like many, but it means one couple in 25. If you know two dozen couples, chances are one participates in consensual non-monogamy" (link below)

Just briefly, for example, swingers that are known to each other have a party with other married and or single people may be there or not. Some people will have sex with each other. Many times no one will be wearing clothes, rules to stop the voyeurs.
Swapping - Usually a couple invites another couple over and they have sex with each other's partner. Many variations, too many to list.

"BDSM practices are no longer considered deviant behaviors, but, on the contrary, “common” behaviors that have been adopted by a large number of individuals."

What anyone considering trying BDSM sex should knowWhat anyone considering trying BDSM sex should know​

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0014385519300271#:~:text=BDSM%20practices%20are%20no%20longer,a%20large%20number%20of%20individuals.

"The best evidence suggests around 4 percent of adults. That may not sound like many, but it means one couple in 25. If you know two dozen couples, chances are one participates in consensual non-monogamy

Open Relationships Are More Popular Than You Might Think

Threesomes, swinging, group sex, polyamory—participation in consensual non-monogamy is growing, especially among young adults.

www.psychologytoday.com

Thanks for the explanation!

 

[Betty P]

<modsnip: quoted post was removed>
All the Task Force needs to do is interview witnesses calling in with tips, then verify their information. It will take some work, but in times of common use of credit cards, cell phones, etc., they should be able to compile sufficient evidence to support the tips. It’s not impossible, and it could help solve these murders. There are still a few victims whose killer hasn’t been identified.

 

[sds71]

“I took pride in being the police commissioner of Suffolk County,” Harrison said during an interview earlier this month with Newsday.

Lou Civello, the president of the Suffolk Police Benevolent Association, said Harrison did an “excellent job” as commissioner.

Harrison tendered his resignation to County Executive Steve Bellone on Nov. 3, almost two years after he succeeded Geraldine Hart as commissioner following a 30-year career with the NYPD.

Harrison was the only person in NYPD history to rise from cadet to chief of department. He also served as the NYPD’s chief of patrol and chief of detectives.

Harrison said earlier this month that his departure is “bittersweet” because while it gives him the opportunity to spend time with his family, he will miss the hustle and bustle of police work. He did not rule out a return to law enforcement, but he said he was eager to spend time with his new grandson. He’s also eager to watch his daughter, Baldwin High School standout Kaia Harrison, play college basketball at Wake Forest.

“There is no better feeling seeing your kid playing high-level sports against the best players in the country,” Harrison said.

Harrison said he is writing a book that will detail his work as chief of patrol and chief of detectives and years on the street with the NYPD.

The book will not discuss Harrison’s role in the Gilgo Beach investigation, he said, because he did not want to compromise Tierney’s prosecution.

Rodney Harrison's term as Suffolk County police commissioner officially over

His two-year tenure included the arrest of a suspect in the Gilgo Beach murders 13 years after the bodies of four women were discovered off Ocean Parkway.

www.newsday.com

 

[Forest_Wood]

“I took pride in being the police commissioner of Suffolk County,” Harrison said during an interview earlier this month with Newsday.

Lou Civello, the president of the Suffolk Police Benevolent Association, said Harrison did an “excellent job” as commissioner.

Harrison tendered his resignation to County Executive Steve Bellone on Nov. 3, almost two years after he succeeded Geraldine Hart as commissioner following a 30-year career with the NYPD.

Harrison was the only person in NYPD history to rise from cadet to chief of department. He also served as the NYPD’s chief of patrol and chief of detectives.

Harrison said earlier this month that his departure is “bittersweet” because while it gives him the opportunity to spend time with his family, he will miss the hustle and bustle of police work. He did not rule out a return to law enforcement, but he said he was eager to spend time with his new grandson. He’s also eager to watch his daughter, Baldwin High School standout Kaia Harrison, play college basketball at Wake Forest.

“There is no better feeling seeing your kid playing high-level sports against the best players in the country,” Harrison said.

Harrison said he is writing a book that will detail his work as chief of patrol and chief of detectives and years on the street with the NYPD.

The book will not discuss Harrison’s role in the Gilgo Beach investigation, he said, because he did not want to compromise Tierney’s prosecution.

Rodney Harrison's term as Suffolk County police commissioner officially over

His two-year tenure included the arrest of a suspect in the Gilgo Beach murders 13 years after the bodies of four women were discovered off Ocean Parkway.

www.newsday.com

I can't help but respect Commissioner Harrison. He just seems like a quality person all around, both in his profession and in his personal life. He stands out above the rest of the players in this investigation.
IMO.

 

[snarast]

What is the difference between swinging, swapping and BDSM? What percentage of mainstream adults participate in these activities? It's the kind of lifestyle that would be foreign to most people I would think. I wonder what he meant by "have consequences". MOO.

I think its important to note that this is not about the aesthetically pleasng 50 shades of grey - it’s a whole lot of brown. So - things that most people abhor. What would a sadist think was amusing to see another human being do for money and how would he go about making that happen? That’s the pro league of BDSM.

And it doesn’t take a lot of imagination to see how swinger parties with prostitutes turns out to be as far from eyes wide shut as you can imagine.