Gilgo Beach LISK Serial Killer, Rex Heuermann, charged with 4 murders, July 2023 #10

[CuriousCricket]

I still don't understand how a person can be cleared just because they "were out of town at the time of the murders". I know LE has stated she is not a suspect at this time, although how do they determine that she was fully unaware of what was going on? A person can be out of town and still be aware of someone's plan. They could even go out of town so that the plan could be carried out. I'm genuinely curious how LE makes this distinction. MOO.

Maybe
1. lull someone into a false sense of security?
2. arrest the person you can prove
3. know there is still much to investigate and wait and see if evidence is found implicating anyone else
4. Don't most of us feel there is still much to come?

 

[waldojabba]

Maybe
1. lull someone into a false sense of security?
2. arrest the person you can prove
3. know there is still much to investigate and wait and see if evidence is found implicating anyone else
4. Don't most of us feel there is still much to come?

BBM - Don't most of us feel there is still much to come

I do think there is a lot to yet unfold in this case. Twists and turns and even "bombshells". But not when it comes to Asa.

To date I don’t see anything out there pointing to Asa having any knowledge of the killings or being involved in them. I will be surprised if anything comes out indicating she was complicit in the killings. I have been wrong before so who knows.
Macedonia echoed a phrase about her I have been using since day 1 - “ she lives in her own world”. I am not a Macedonia fan but I agree with him on that point.
She seems to have no sophistication and appears easily manipulated.
In doing the peacock production I think she sees a way to look out after her family economically. And I can imagine she was sweet talked into it by her new friends at peacock.
She’s not young and I bet there are also no funds for retirement etc. plus she will always have her son with her so she is doing the best she can.
She has no final say on the Peacock production. Peacock can and will portray Asa and her children anyway they want and she has no say. So she seems to either not care or not have the ability when making choices to understand all the long term ramifications ( her lawyer should have made sure she was protected but he’s grabbing cash so he does not care). I am not diagnosing her but if someone told me she was somewhere on the spectrum I would not be surprised. It makes so much sense.
I find her a woman in a horrific position doing the best she can .Not the best I could do or the best you could do - just the best SHE can do. I do wish she was surrounded by supportive people looking out after her best interests but I see the opposite.
What I do find interesting throughout all this on different platforms, is all the people focusing on her giving the finger to the press and her “it is what it is” statement.
If you have ever spent any time on the island and have not been given the finger or given someone else the finger have you even really been there ?
Her statement “ it is what it is” is just another common statement people have analyzed the bejesus out of. It’s the island, it is what it is.
She started out very black and white and not looking for a lot of drama - we will see how that evolves.

But as of now count me out on the other shoe dropping with her. She may not be portrayed as a sympathetic victim - but none the less I truly believe she is a victim in this whole atrocious mess.

Just my opinion (which I acknowledge is different from most)

 

[arielilane]

that's some pretty hard evidence for ole Rex to refute.

Yes, how is he (his defense team) going to explain it? I can't think of a way out for him. moo

 

[arielilane]

was this mtdna match or a Nuclear DNAmatch? Mtdna isnt unique, while Nuclear DNA is.

Not sure, article didn't disclose that info. I'm sure the trial will disclose the details. Please enlighten me and provide the difference of the DNAs? If you aren't able to, I can look it up. TIA

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

I still don't understand how a person can be cleared just because they "were out of town at the time of the murders". I know LE has stated she is not a suspect at this time, although how do they determine that she was fully unaware of what was going on? A person can be out of town and still be aware of someone's plan. They could even go out of town so that the plan could be carried out. I'm genuinely curious how LE makes this distinction. MOO.

She is not a "suspect" because to be labeled as one means there is evidence that a crime in the NY criminal code occurred, and she committed the elements of that crime. At this time, there is no evidence she committed any crime.

First, she wasn't in the country when the murders occurred. That leaves crimes that are difficult to prove without strong evidence.

She can't prove that she didn't know something to satisfy the speculation that "she knew something".

 

[10ofRods]

Not sure, article didn't disclose that info. I'm sure the trial will disclose the details. Please enlighten me and provide the difference of the DNAs? If you aren't able to, I can look it up. TIA

mtDNA is outside the nucleus of the cell and controls only the creation of the mitochondria (the part of the cell that makes electricity for the cell to survive). Sperm have no mtDNA but eggs do.

So all of us get this special form of DNA from our mothers and only our mothers. It does not mutate very often (unlike nuclear DNA) which is why it is not identifying. In anthropology, we use it to understand prehistory and human migration. My mtDNA is from Europe (H1) and we know that this particular version of mtDNA originated in Central Eurasia around 40,000 years ago (the original copy of our mtDNA is from Africa, 200,000 years ago).

Nowadays, there are about 30 majors groups of mtDNA and thousands of subgroups. So, it CAN be used in forensics - to exclude and include people. Nearly everyone has identical mtDNA to their own mother (99.999% of us do). And that's generally true for several generations back.

Human mitochondrial DNA haplogroup - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

To use my own example, I should share H1 with all of my siblings, my mother, and all of her siblings, and my grandmother and all of her siblings from the same mom. Since it mutates so slowly, this would help identify me (if my body were unidentified) as far back as 5-10 generations. Some people's lines have had almost no mutations (llike mine - first there was H, then H1 - which appears around 28,000 years ago, so maybe 1 mutation in 12,000 years?)

Because of the way sexual reproduction/making of eggs and sperm works, nuclear DNA (except the Y chromosome) recombine and mutate and so...there are trillions of possibilities for what can make a new human, and with the exception of identical twins (in general), we are all unique in our nuclear DNA.

mtDNA can be very useful, though, in narrowing down a person to a percentage of the population that's less than 1%. In forensics, it's way more useful for figuring out the identity of human remains.

A hair (if the root is intact) would provide nuclear DNA - the DNA that identifies specific individuals. Skin cells (epithelial cells) do the same thing. mtDNA, though, can at least put us in the ballpark of identifying a person (esp. regarding heritage on the mother's side).

I am not caught up on this case, but it's my understanding that investigators have said they have found RH's wife's hairs, after taking a cheek swab. That means it's nuclear DNA, IMO. They couldn't possibly say it was her hair unless there was nuclear DNA.

 

[CuriousCricket]

BBM - Don't most of us feel there is still much to come

I do think there is a lot to yet unfold in this case. Twists and turns and even "bombshells". But not when it comes to Asa.

But as of now count me out on the other shoe dropping with her. She may not be portrayed as a sympathetic victim - but none the less I truly believe she is a victim in this whole atrocious mess.

Just my opinion (which I acknowledge is different from most)

I frankly have no idea what LE is finding nor where it will lead. I've discovered I really don't have an opinion one way or the other on AE. Well, other than it's possible the public will never know one way or the other unless charges are brought. No charges can mean she knew NOTHING, saw NOTHING and suspected NOTHING. No charges can also mean a little or a lot might have been discovered, but not enough to a conviction nor even to spend the time and money bringing charges. So, LE will say NOTHING and the public will not know.

The mounds of "stuff" removed from the home, along with two storage sheds, two vehicles and who knows what else where else makes me think there will probably be many revelations. However, LE will always know things that were not important enough to include in the official case. The public will never get all the answers to all the questions.

So far, for me, the biggest thing I'm looking forward to learning is why the medical examiner was called to the storage shed. Another big mystery: will any well-known name(s) be revealed to have at least associated with RH in some way if not be directly involved in the murders enough for charges to be filed.

 

[Just K]

I frankly have no idea what LE is finding nor where it will lead. I've discovered I really don't have an opinion one way or the other on AE. Well, other than it's possible the public will never know one way or the other unless charges are brought. No charges can mean she knew NOTHING, saw NOTHING and suspected NOTHING. No charges can also mean a little or a lot might have been discovered, but not enough to a conviction nor even to spend the time and money bringing charges. So, LE will say NOTHING and the public will not know.

The mounds of "stuff" removed from the home, along with two storage sheds, two vehicles and who knows what else where else makes me think there will probably be many revelations. However, LE will always know things that were not important enough to include in the official case. The public will never get all the answers to all the questions.

So far, for me, the biggest thing I'm looking forward to learning is why the medical examiner was called to the storage shed. Another big mystery: will any well-known name(s) be revealed to have at least associated with RH in some way if not be directly involved in the murders enough for charges to be filed.

Yes, calling the ME to the storage unit is the most curious, to me, aspect of the search warrants. Perhaps LE found something that looked like human remains or body parts.

 

[10ofRods]

Yes, calling the ME to the storage unit is the most curious, to me, aspect of the search warrants. Perhaps LE found something that looked like human remains or body parts.

In a lot of places, it is the medical examiner who has the forensic DNA analysis staff and equipment. So it could be just finding hairs or fingerprints - which could then be examined forensically/genetically. Or pieces of evidence that could have been used in the commission of crimes (and would contain DNA), like ropes, sharp objects, blunt objects, etc. I would expect they'd want to be thorough.

They will also be interested in who had access to the storage unit, I'd think. Or if victim DNA is found there. Stuff like that.

 

[Ruminations]

Chris Cuomo with Asa's attorney Bob Macedonio after she appeared at Rex's hearing.

2X Macedonio refers to troubles in the marriage for a long time, troubles he said he won't get into.

Cuomo missed a good opportunity to call Macedonio on why he insists that Asa is attending the trial because all she has is the media's version and wants to hear/see for herself.

Cuomo should have asked Macedonio "did she not read his indictment"?

Short interview.

Exactly. And details about the marriage might be relevant to investigators. She may or may not have insight into what she saw and experienced means, but she absolutely saw and experienced stuff relevant to investigators. Why gaslight about LE (they asked her nothing- she was out of town- they ruined her home!- she knows nothing anyway- she had a right to remain silent - unless paid to sell her story for the TV)

That indictment tells a lot, and while it is allegations, they are strong enough to keep him incarcerated already. And they are disgusting! The disgusting parts are almost impossible to deny, even if they do not amount to murder beyond a reasonable doubt.

MOO

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

Cuomo missed a good opportunity to call Macedonio on why he insists that Asa is attending the trial because all she has is the media's version and wants to hear/see for herself.

Cuomo should have asked Macedonio "did she not read his indictment"?

MOO,
I am not satisfied with the indictment, I want to see all of the evidence with my own eyes and ears, even though I am already convinced of his guilt.

The wife owes no one any explanation on why she will or will not be at a possible trial and there shouldn't be a judgment about whatever her motives are for attending.

 

[DS2021]

Not sure, article didn't disclose that info. I'm sure the trial will disclose the details. Please enlighten me and provide the difference of the DNAs? If you aren't able to, I can look it up. TIA

Ill look for an article, it'll probably be easier to understand lol. My understanding is that Nuclear DNA is totally unique to each person and therefore can be used to identify a specific person. Mitochondrial dna is not unique to each person, meaning multiple people can share the same Mitochondrial, meaning it can't be used to identify a specific person, however it can still be helpful to narrow down the pool of potential matches.

 

[DS2021]

Not sure, article didn't disclose that info. I'm sure the trial will disclose the details. Please enlighten me and provide the difference of the DNAs? If you aren't able to, I can look it up. TIA

Use of Mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) in Forensics

mtDNA was used as evidence for the first time in US courts in 1998, and it has since become a staple in many cases where DNA evidence is presented.

www.azolifesciences.com

Unlike nuclear DNA, which is completely unique to an individual (outside of identical siblings), mtDNA sequences are frequently identical between different people. The occurrence of a match between a person’s mtDNA and mtDNA found at a crime scene only implies their presence there, rather than confirming it. Defense attorneys have argued that this difference between nuclear DNA and mtDNA may lead jurors to misunderstand the certainty of a test.

In addition, maternally related individuals usually have the entire mtDNA sequence in common, meaning it is impossible to distinguish between their mtDNA samples.

 

[arielilane]

mtDNA is outside the nucleus of the cell and controls only the creation of the mitochondria (the part of the cell that makes electricity for the cell to survive). Sperm have no mtDNA but eggs do.

So all of us get this special form of DNA from our mothers and only our mothers. It does not mutate very often (unlike nuclear DNA) which is why it is not identifying. In anthropology, we use it to understand prehistory and human migration. My mtDNA is from Europe (H1) and we know that this particular version of mtDNA originated in Central Eurasia around 40,000 years ago (the original copy of our mtDNA is from Africa, 200,000 years ago).

Nowadays, there are about 30 majors groups of mtDNA and thousands of subgroups. So, it CAN be used in forensics - to exclude and include people. Nearly everyone has identical mtDNA to their own mother (99.999% of us do). And that's generally true for several generations back.

Human mitochondrial DNA haplogroup - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

To use my own example, I should share H1 with all of my siblings, my mother, and all of her siblings, and my grandmother and all of her siblings from the same mom. Since it mutates so slowly, this would help identify me (if my body were unidentified) as far back as 5-10 generations. Some people's lines have had almost no mutations (llike mine - first there was H, then H1 - which appears around 28,000 years ago, so maybe 1 mutation in 12,000 years?)

Because of the way sexual reproduction/making of eggs and sperm works, nuclear DNA (except the Y chromosome) recombine and mutate and so...there are trillions of possibilities for what can make a new human, and with the exception of identical twins (in general), we are all unique in our nuclear DNA.

mtDNA can be very useful, though, in narrowing down a person to a percentage of the population that's less than 1%. In forensics, it's way more useful for figuring out the identity of human remains.

A hair (if the root is intact) would provide nuclear DNA - the DNA that identifies specific individuals. Skin cells (epithelial cells) do the same thing. mtDNA, though, can at least put us in the ballpark of identifying a person (esp. regarding heritage on the mother's side).

I am not caught up on this case, but it's my understanding that investigators have said they have found RH's wife's hairs, after taking a cheek swab. That means it's nuclear DNA, IMO. They couldn't possibly say it was her hair unless there was nuclear DNA.

Thank you so much, @10ofRods for taking the time to provide this informative detailed explanation. I recall hearing about some of this DNA info before, a few times... And now I shall try to retain it.

 

[arielilane]

Use of Mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) in Forensics

mtDNA was used as evidence for the first time in US courts in 1998, and it has since become a staple in many cases where DNA evidence is presented.

www.azolifesciences.com

Thank you, @DS2021 - and I will check out the link article.

 

[arielilane]

Posting for anyone who missed this interesting (moo) read:


(NewsNation) — In the background of one of the largest serial killer investigations the U.S. has seen in recent years is a letter handwritten by the “Happy Face Killer” to the Gilgo Beach murders suspect.

Rex Heuermann is being held in a Suffolk County, New York jail, having entered a not guilty plea to three counts of first-degree murder in the deaths of Melissa Barthelemy, Megan Waterman and Amber Costello. He is also a suspect in the murder of Maureen Brainard-Barnes but has not been charged with her death.

Now, Heuermann has exchanged messages with convicted killer Keith Jesperson, widely known as the “Happy Face Killer.”

Jesperson, who murdered at least eight women across the U.S. in the 1990s, wrote to Heuermann to encourage him to come clean and confess if he’s guilty. He has penned letters to other serial killers and suspected murderers in the past.

‘Happy Face’ serial killer pens note to Gilgo Beach suspect

Heuermann has exchanged messages with convicted killer Keith Jesperson, widely known as the “Happy Face Killer.”

www.newsnationnow.com

11.28.2023

 

[Izzylizzy]

MOO,
I am not satisfied with the indictment, I want to see all of the evidence with my own eyes and ears, even though I am already convinced of his guilt.

The wife owes no one any explanation on why she will or will not be at a possible trial and there shouldn't be a judgment about whatever her motives are for attending.

It's going to be a long, long time before she'll get to see/hear any "evidence" if her husband does go to trial.

 

[Izzylizzy]

Exactly. And details about the marriage might be relevant to investigators. She may or may not have insight into what she saw and experienced means, but she absolutely saw and experienced stuff relevant to investigators. Why gaslight about LE (they asked her nothing- she was out of town- they ruined her home!- she knows nothing anyway- she had a right to remain silent - unless paid to sell her story for the TV)

That indictment tells a lot, and while it is allegations, they are strong enough to keep him incarcerated already. And they are disgusting! The disgusting parts are almost impossible to deny, even if they do not amount to murder beyond a reasonable doubt.

MOO

Not only impossible to deny the disgusting parts, comprehend them.
The search engine forensics on his devices will be tough to disprove.
I was quite surprised to hear Macedonio not only bring her marriage into the discussion but paint it in a troubled light.
A possible 'method to his madness'?

 

[CuriousCricket]

In a lot of places, it is the medical examiner who has the forensic DNA analysis staff and equipment. So it could be just finding hairs or fingerprints - which could then be examined forensically/genetically. Or pieces of evidence that could have been used in the commission of crimes (and would contain DNA), like ropes, sharp objects, blunt objects, etc. I would expect they'd want to be thorough.

They will also be interested in who had access to the storage unit, I'd think. Or if victim DNA is found there. Stuff like that.

Like you, I think they wanted to be very thorough. And I expect and hope they were. Naturally, I don't have crime scene experience. However on TV you see regular officers picking up whatever and dropping it into a plastic baggy -- no special personnel required. The baggies are marked then SENT to the labs and appropriate personnel for examination and testing. But for something to require the presence of the Medical Examiner onsite. . . what could it have been? Just had an out-of-left-field thought. Perhaps the ME's presence was not required, but he had some free time and knowing the scope of this case simply paid a visit to the storage unit. Wouldn't that disappoint a bunch of us?

 

[Ruminations]

Not only impossible to deny the disgusting parts, comprehend them.
The search engine forensics on his devices will be tough to disprove.
I was quite surprised to hear Macedonio not only bring her marriage into the discussion but paint it in a troubled light.
A possible 'method to his madness'?

He has the tease strategy down pat. Tune in next week to learn another hint about the marriage!

Macedonio: What a difficult man to conjure up respect for. The only positive thing I can say about his reality TV shenanigans is that they are a moral step up from bribery and money laundering, which are also on his resume.

MOO