Gilgo Beach LISK Serial Killer, Rex Heuermann, charged with 6 murders, July 2023 #15

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FWIW there is a difference between communications and testimonial privilege. Marital privilege ceases once a divorce is finalized however there are some exceptions afaik.
I see just what you mean on this testimonial privilege. Seeing that with testimonial privilege in a criminal case, a former spouse can no longer invoke it. (!) Checking for exceptions/New York specifically. Not seeing many/any as of yet.
 
I see just what you mean on this testimonial privilege. Seeing that with testimonial privilege in a criminal case, a former spouse can no longer invoke it. (!) Checking for exceptions/New York specifically. Not seeing many/any as of yet.
Disclaiming FWIW I'm not an expert whatsoever.

I assume that anything which occurs within the timeframe of the marriage would be protected by spousal privilege regardless the current status of their divorce proceedings. I believe this would also include any discussions, revelations or "discoveries" made by either party within the timeframe of the marriage (such as knowledge of "personal interests" etc). Again JMO etc.

Considering the fact that other properties have changed hands recently, I do have to wonder what that could mean for the future of this case. Whether the property outside NY has anything to do with RH crimes and if AE selling it off is any indication as to her level of knowledge, whether this could have an impact or affect the limitations of spousal privilege etc. JMO.
 
Disclaiming FWIW I'm not an expert whatsoever.

I assume that anything which occurs within the timeframe of the marriage would be protected by spousal privilege regardless the current status of their divorce proceedings. I believe this would also include any discussions, revelations or "discoveries" made by either party within the timeframe of the marriage (such as knowledge of "personal interests" etc). Again JMO etc.

Considering the fact that other properties have changed hands recently, I do have to wonder what that could mean for the future of this case. Whether the property outside NY has anything to do with RH crimes and if AE selling it off is any indication as to her level of knowledge, whether this could have an impact or affect the limitations of spousal privilege etc. JMO.
Invoking spousal privilege when it comes to a husband charged with serial killing over decades is a cowardly move IMO. No respect for keeping mum if a person can contribute any kind of knowledge towards a conviction for gruesome crimes. MOO.
 
Invoking spousal privilege when it comes to a husband charged with serial killing over decades is a cowardly move IMO. No respect for keeping mum if a person can contribute any kind of knowledge towards a conviction for gruesome crimes. MOO.
I thought it meant that he can prevent her from testifying too??
 
Can he??? How could he prevent her from testifying if she chooses to, for the greater good? I'm really not sure how that works. Maybe there's an attorney here that can inform us.
MOO.
i know! I'm not sure about this case, but I just read that any communication during the marriage is considered privileged in most cases. So they can prevent one another from testifying. Maybe there are exceptions, I'm not sure.
 
Can he??? How could he prevent her from testifying if she chooses to, for the greater good? I'm really not sure how that works. Maybe there's an attorney here that can inform us.
MOO.
RBBM via spousal privilege, potentially. AFAIK it varies from state to state. More than likely there is another poster here who could help give better definition.
 
The corruption in SC at the time lead to this unbelievably lax treatment of Shannan’s case. Unfortunately it’s not feasible to properly compensate everyone who suffered during that reign.

I wish the focus would be justice for Shannan, rather than anything else.
Why can't they have both justice and be paid damages?
 
Not a lawyer, but Guide to New York Evidence https://www.nycourts.gov/JUDGES/evidence/5-PRIVILEGES/ARTICLE_5_RULES.pdf:

A husband or wife shall not be required, or, without consent of the other if living, allowed, to disclose a confidential communication made by one to the other during marriage.

CPLR 4502 (b). The spousal privilege protects confidential communications induced by the marital relationship...Separation of legally married parties will not necessarily preclude application of the privilege


The best practical differentiation I can see online for communication versus testimonial privileges follows, and it seems like she in the end would still enjoy a lot of protection:
-The spousal testimonial privilege which applies only in criminal cases lasts only as long as the marriage does. Additionally, the privilege belongs to the spouse who is being asked to testify. Once a couple divorces, a former spouse can no longer invoke the privilege to avoid testifying in a criminal case, and the other spouse cannot assert the privilege to prevent that testimony from being admitted into evidence on the basis of the privilege

-The marital communications privilege applies in both criminal and civil cases. It only covers communications made during the marriage. Unlike the spousal testimonial privilege, this privilege does not end when the marriage does. Either spouse can assert the privilege long after a divorce and prevent the admission of testimony pertaining to confidential statements made while the parties were married.


It looks like she could be compelled to testify but why bother if all the communications she'd be testifying about are protected under the communications privilege?

And just noting, there's an interesting article from St.John's Law Review entitled "CPLR 4502(b): Spousal Privilege Does Not Extend to Conversations Which Advance Joint Criminal Activity" (Just putting that out there.) It states "Moreover, the testimonial privilege is designed to promote socially desirable goals, and a joint attempt at criminality obviously is not desirable behavior; to hold conversations furthering criminal conspiracy privileged because the conspirators happen to be married would "require a finding that. . . the commission of a crime would protect and strengthen the marital bond."
I thought it meant that he can prevent her from testifying too??
I think this is the adverse spousal witness privilege. Seeing this:
New York has an adverse spousal witness privilege:

-Privilege belongs to the witness spouse
The witness spouse can choose to assert the privilege and prevent the other spouse from testifying against them.
-Privilege can be invoked after divorce
The privilege can be invoked even after a divorce if the communications were made during a valid marriage

Am seeing this was adverse privilege was supposedly pretty much done away with by the Trammel case with the Supreme Court-- but not completely. That's something to watch for down the road, for sure.
 
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Not a lawyer, but Guide to New York Evidence https://www.nycourts.gov/JUDGES/evidence/5-PRIVILEGES/ARTICLE_5_RULES.pdf:

A husband or wife shall not be required, or, without consent of the other if living, allowed, to disclose a confidential communication made by one to the other during marriage.

CPLR 4502 (b). The spousal privilege protects confidential communications induced by the marital relationship...Separation of legally married parties will not necessarily preclude application of the privilege


The best practical differentiation I can see online for communication versus testimonial privileges follows, and it seems like she in the end would still enjoy a lot of protection:
-The spousal testimonial privilege which applies only in criminal cases lasts only as long as the marriage does. Additionally, the privilege belongs to the spouse who is being asked to testify. Once a couple divorces, a former spouse can no longer invoke the privilege to avoid testifying in a criminal case, and the other spouse cannot assert the privilege to prevent that testimony from being admitted into evidence on the basis of the privilege

-The marital communications privilege applies in both criminal and civil cases. It only covers communications made during the marriage. Unlike the spousal testimonial privilege, this privilege does not end when the marriage does. Either spouse can assert the privilege long after a divorce and prevent the admission of testimony pertaining to confidential statements made while the parties were married.


It looks like she could be compelled to testify but why bother if all the communications she'd be testifying about are protected under the communications privilege?

And just noting, there's an interesting article from St.John's Law Review entitled "CPLR 4502(b): Spousal Privilege Does Not Extend to Conversations Which Advance Joint Criminal Activity" (Just putting that out there.) It states "Moreover, the testimonial privilege is designed to promote socially desirable goals, and a joint attempt at criminality obviously is not desirable behavior; to hold conversations furthering criminal conspiracy privileged because the conspirators happen to be married would "require a finding that. . . the commission of a crime would protect and strengthen the marital bond."

I think this is the adverse spousal witness privilege. Seeing this:
New York has an adverse spousal witness privilege:

-Privilege belongs to the witness spouse
The witness spouse can choose to assert the privilege and prevent the other spouse from testifying against them.
-Privilege can be invoked after divorce
The privilege can be invoked even after a divorce if the communications were made during a valid marriage

Am seeing this was adverse privilege was supposedly pretty much done away with by the Trammel case with the Supreme Court-- but not completely. That's something to watch for down the road, for sure.
Maybe my source is older. pr may not apply to criminal cases? ..I read the opposite lol




24 NY2d at 414; People v Melski, 10 NY2d at 79; Matter of Vanderbilt [RosnerHickey], 57 NY2d at 73; see also Guide to NY Evid rule 1.11 [1]). The privilege automatically attaches to a confidential communication (Matter of Vanderbilt [RosnerHickey], 57 NY2d at 73). There is a rebuttable presumption that communications between spouses have been conducted under a mantle of confidentiality (People v Fediuk, 66 NY2d 881, 883 [1985]). The presumption is not rebutted merely by the fact that the parties are not living together at the time the communication is made, or that the marriage has deteriorated (id. at 883). The privilege belongs to the spouse who made the confidential communication (Prink v Rockefeller Ctr., 48 NY2d 309, 314 [1979]). While living, only the spouse against whom the testimony is offered can waive the privilege (People v Fediuk, 66 NY2d at 881). The privilege is not terminated by death (Prink v Rockefeller Ctr., 48 NY2d at 314). After death, the privilege may still be waived by the decedents representative (id. at 314 [privilege waived where husbands mental condition put in issue in a wrongful death action]

The privilege belongs to the spouse who made the confidential communication (Prink v Rockefeller Ctr., 48 NY2d 309, 314 [1979]). While living, only the spouse against whom the testimony is offered can waive the privilege (People v Fediuk, 66 NY2d at 881). The privilege is not terminated by death (Prink v Rockefeller Ctr., 48 NY2d at 314). After death, the privilege may still be waived by the decedents representative (id. at 314 [privilege waived where husbands mental condition put in issue in a wrongful death action]
 
No way you can be married to someone with these tendencies and for them to not have at least spoke re such. Moo
I don't think, he was able to shut his mouth all the time about that topic. And I don't think, she was able not to ask. There may have been a tacit agreement to enable the other to live a life without too many scruples. MOO
 
I don't think, he was able to shut his mouth all the time about that topic. And I don't think, she was able not to ask. There may have been a tacit agreement to enable the other to live a life without too many scruples. MOO
I suspect the spousal privilege is what stalled the divorce. Her first reaction was divorce. He and/or friends rushed an attorney to her (wouldn't we ALL like to know how her attorney's hiring came about?) to explain and put dollar signs in her eyes. The old "you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours" seems to me to be in full effect here.
 
I suspect the spousal privilege is what stalled the divorce. Her first reaction was divorce. He and/or friends rushed an attorney to her (wouldn't we ALL like to know how her attorney's hiring came about?) to explain and put dollar signs in her eyes. The old "you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours" seems to me to be in full effect here.
i think it was so he could sign the house over to her and then he gets a free lawyer. They are legally separated now, so if found guilty, Families can not touch anything if they want to sue. I'm so curious as to how she got his so fast. She had him in like two days...so maybe she new him already and he went to her... his offices are not close to her home and how would she find him so fast? IMO it is shady
 
i think it was so he could sign the house over to her and then he gets a free lawyer. They are legally separated now, so if found guilty, Families can not touch anything if they want to sue. I'm so curious as to how she got his so fast. She had him in like two days...so maybe she new him already and he went to her... his offices are not close to her home and how would she find him so fast? IMO it is shady
Amen. And he's spending hundreds, thousands of dollars for years to frequent sex workers. And look at the conditions the family was living in in the home of the "architect." If nothing else, didn't AE wonder where all the money was going? She clearly cares about money, she wanted all those guns of his removed from evidence and sold because of her need for money, and I don't doubt it was real need, but she's clearly not oblivious to financial concerns. (Peacock?? AE is conscious of finances.) RH was sometimes offering workers sums far beyond their typical rates. And according to Nikkie Brass, he met her in a pretty upscale restaurant and had offered to pay for a hotel room. Where was AE's financial awareness then? Did she already know where this mountain of money was going? Was she afraid to ask where it was going?
 
'Date' re-fresher.. (The background kind of creepy, considering...imo)
Aug 14, 2023 Law&Crime Sidebar with Jesse Weber
''In a new development in the Gilgo Beach serial killer case, new charges have been brought against the accused, Rex Heuermann. As the investigation unfolds, the Law&Crime Network's Angenette Levy sat down with Nikkie Brass, a sex worker who claims to have dated Heuermann in the past. In an exclusive interview, Brass shared her chilling experience with the alleged serial killer, shedding light on his unsettling behavior and the red flags that raised her suspicions.Subscribe for more Law&Crime: https://bit.ly/LawAndCrimeNetworkDuring the interview, Nikkie Brass recounted her encounter with Rex Heuermann, revealing that he "weirded her out" when he brought up the topic of the Long Island killings. Brass, who had been following the case closely, said that Heuermann's comments and demeanor during their interaction left her deeply unsettled. She noted that his fascination with the murders and his peculiar mannerisms led her to believe that he was, in fact, the Gilgo Beach serial killer. Brass's firsthand account provides a unique and disturbing perspective on the accused, raising questions about his potential involvement in the heinous crimes that have haunted Long Island for years. As the case against Rex Heuermann progresses, Nikkie Brass's revelations add another layer to the complex and disturbing narrative surrounding the Gilgo Beach murders.''
 

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