Greece Greece - Ben Needham, 21 mos, Isle of Kos, 24 July 1991

[MelmothTheLost]

I just wonder whether Ben could have wandered into nearby building works could have come a cropper there.

If this tip is a good one, it looks as though I wasn't far of the mark back in May.

Assuming, for the sake of argument, Ben was killed accidentally after wandering onto a building or other site that he shouldn't have been on, why on earth didn't the digger driver come forward at the time? Unless Greek law is radically different from ours, I can't imagine he could have been prosecuted for something unforseeable (a toddler on a building site) and accidental. Why put a family through half a lifetime's uncertainty?

 

[Alyce]

I really dont understand why, if they interviewed Barkas at the time, and again back in 2012, why why why did they not thoroughly search the area where he was working.
Particularly when he said, in 2012,

Mr Barkas previously came forward in 2012 to tell police he may have accidentally covered the child in rubble while digging near a farmhouse on the island.


I mean, for goodness sake ( being very very polite here ) why did they not go to the correct area and search thoroughly.

I really despair, the suffering that Kerry and her whole family have gone through for so many years. Although, and I hate to say this, having lived there for many years, in another way it does not surprise me at all, if this turns out to be the truth ....... cover up, lies, protecting their own.

Am just totally disgusted as you may gather !

 

[CoverMeCagney]

If this tip is a good one, it looks as though I wasn't far of the mark back in May.

Assuming, for the sake of argument, Ben was killed accidentally after wandering onto a building or other site that he shouldn't have been on, why on earth didn't the digger driver come forward at the time? Unless Greek law is radically different from ours, I can't imagine he could have been prosecuted for something unforseeable (a toddler on a building site) and accidental. Why put a family through half a lifetime's uncertainty?

It's a good question - why not just come out and say there'd been an accident and call 999 immediately? You never know what's going on in someone's mind or life, and once that snap decision is made, and the right thing isn't done, it gets harder to admit the truth.

 

[Alyce]

It's a good question - why not just come out and say there'd been an accident and call 999 immediately? You never know what's going on in someone's mind or life, and once that snap decision is made, and the right thing isn't done, it gets harder to admit the truth.

Small place Kos ( or it was back then ). Close families, everyone knows everyone in their area ( more or less ). Loss of status, being shunned by the whole community etc etc...
I would say - and this is of course my opinion only - that there is ( was ) more than one person, within various groups, who have known of this information for years.

 

[shadowdancer]

Judging from the press coverage today, it sounds like Kerry thinks there is a good chance that this news is true. The police must have been given some pretty reliable sounding information for Kerry to think this.

Its just so desperately sad, but if this is what happened to Ben, then his body needs to be found so that Kerry and the Needham family can give him a dignified funeral and have a final resting place for Ben that honours his life and gives his family a place to grieve him.

Hopefully this witness has given information that includes detail about where Ben's body is, so that he can either be found, or this information can be officially ruled out. However, in my entirely unqualified opinion, I think this information has a real ring of truth about it.

 

[MelmothTheLost]

Loss of status, being shunned by the whole community etc etc...

But if Ben was killed in a genuine accident, why would there be any loss of status etc for the person who inadvertently killed him? If a child runs out between cars and is killed, there's no stigma for the driver concerned unless the driver is negligent, eg drunk or using a mobile phone.

 

[MelmothTheLost]

I think they were told several times back then, by locals, that gypsies had him.

In view of what has been reported today, I wonder if that was deliberate obfuscation by the locals back then. Pointing the finger well away from the community to support what may now turn out to have been a deliberate cover up of what actually happened.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

In view of what has been reported today, I wonder if that was deliberate obfuscation by the locals back then. Pointing the finger well away from the community to support what may now turn out to have been a deliberate cover up of what actually happened.

Quite possibly, though I'd hate to think that multiple people know what happened to Ben.

I suppose if it weren't for Madeleine, this case, sadly, might have just got slowly forgotten. The interest, media hype and police time/money spent on Madeleine is what ignited the surge in interest for Ben, I think.

I hope they find him but I'm worried for Kerry. She said "My reason for waking up in the morning and dealing with life was looking for Ben. Now what? I don't know if we will ever be able to cope with it. I don't know if I'm strong enough."

 

[MelmothTheLost]

Quite possibly, though I'd hate to think that multiple people know what happened to Ben.

I think it very likely that another two, maybe three, knew. Even a small building project would have a handful of people working on it, but any more than two or three and it becomes much more likely that over the years someone would have talked.

I hope they find him but I'm worried for Kerry. She said "My reason for waking up in the morning and dealing with life was looking for Ben. Now what? I don't know if we will ever be able to cope with it. I don't know if I'm strong enough."

Maybe. It doesn't sound like a healthy place to be from a mental health point of view.

If his body is found, then clearly all the mental defences she has built over the decades will be torn down. There will no longer be the shield of believing/hoping that he was living with gypsies and maybe had a family of his own by now.

I'm actually interested in how this affected any other children Kerry had. Did she have any? If so it can't have been much of a life living with the ghost of another child.

 

[MelmothTheLost]

I mean, for goodness sake ( being very very polite here ) why did they not go to the correct area and search thoroughly.

Do you mean the Greek or British police?

By 2012 Greece was already in dire financial straits. Public spending was being cut back so it's possible the local police (a) didn't have the resources to act on the new information and (b) didn't contact the British police over in case they, the Greek police, were expected to make further enquiries they just didn't have a budget for.

And the British police could only go to Greece by invitation of the Greek police.

 

[skibaboo]

DM article - poor Kerry - she sounds angry and very scared that all her hope might be taken away.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...eve-crushed-digger-Greek-island-Kos-1991.html

I'm going to Kos next summer and will be thinking of Ben :cry:

"The unnamed witness is believed to have told police he saw Mr Barkas 'sweating and shaking' after coming back from a police station the day after the disappearance.
He had been questioned by officers over the possibility of an accident."

"Detectives are understood to be investigating whether Mr Barkas knew he had killed the boy and whether there was a 'conspiracy' among his friends to protect him."

Why? Why the need to protect him if it was an accident? He was interviewed by police the DAY AFTER Ben went missing about a possible accident. If it was an accident then WHY would you not say so? All I can think is there has to be more to it, I can understand not wanting to not tell the truth after years, decades, but the next day?

I think we finally might know what happened to Ben, I think this is it.. Bless you Kerry. I can understand her fears, is she strong enough? You bet you are Kerry, much stronger than you know.

 

[Alyce]

But if Ben was killed in a genuine accident, why would there be any loss of status etc for the person who inadvertently killed him? If a child runs out between cars and is killed, there's no stigma for the driver concerned unless the driver is negligent, eg drunk or using a mobile phone.

We are talking about a small island in Greece, close community, strong family ties. There would always be shame brought on the family and relatives, shunning of the culprit.
I am not saying it is right, I am just saying that would be the way it was.

 

[Alyce]

Do you mean the Greek or British police?

By 2012 Greece was already in dire financial straits. Public spending was being cut back so it's possible the local police (a) didn't have the resources to act on the new information and (b) didn't contact the British police over in case they, the Greek police, were expected to make further enquiries they just didn't have a budget for.

And the British police could only go to Greece by invitation of the Greek police.

The Home Office backed a South Yorkshire Police operation in 2012 when land was excavated on Kos, near the farmhouse where Ben was last seen.


http://news.sky.com/story/police-fly-to-kos-in-hunt-for-missing-ben-needham-10275385

 

[MelmothTheLost]

We are talking about a small island in Greece, close community, strong family ties. There would always be shame brought on the family and relatives, shunning of the culprit.
I am not saying it is right, I am just saying that would be the way it was.

BBM

See, I don't understand this. You write as though you have specific knowledge of the traditional societies of Greek islands 25 years ago. If so, please clarify.

Why would anyone be shunned for or shamed by a genuine accident, if that was what happened?

If the digger driver turned out to be a paedophile who had found Ben wandering and then abused, deliberately killed and buried him then than would be a different matter.

 

[MelmothTheLost]

The Home Office backed a South Yorkshire Police operation in 2012 when land was excavated on Kos, near the farmhouse where Ben was last seen.


http://news.sky.com/story/police-fly-to-kos-in-hunt-for-missing-ben-needham-10275385

Thanks. So basically British police ran the operation, presumably because the Greek police lacked either the funds or skills to do so.

 

[Alyce]

BBM

See, I don't understand this. You write as though you have specific knowledge of the traditional societies of Greek islands 25 years ago. If so, please clarify.

Why would anyone be shunned for or shamed by a genuine accident, if that was what happened?

If the digger driver turned out to be a paedophile who had found Ben wandering and then abused, deliberately killed and buried him then than would be a different matter.

I did explain up thread. I lived there ( not Kos ) for many years. I do have knowledge of their way of life.

And now, I'm out of here. I really, really do not need this level of antagonism on a debate thread.

 

[shadowdancer]

I know a woman whose first husband was Greek. She lived with him in a small Greek village, and from the stories she tells, what Alyce posted sounds very believable to me.

 

[Alyce]

I know a woman whose first husband was Greek. She lived with him in a small Greek village, and from the stories she tells, what Alyce posted sounds very believable to me.

Thank you Shadow Dancer. Much appreciated.

 

[MelmothTheLost]

I did explain up thread. I lived there ( not Kos ) for many years. I do have knowledge of their way of life.

And now, I'm out of here. I really, really do not need this level of antagonism on a debate thread.

Thank you. I obviously missed that detail in your earlier reply, so your point is taken. No antagonism was intended.

ETA: on that basis, how do you think the community would react to a possible cover up of the death of a child?

 

[Ironside]

Maybe the person who it is suspected ran over Ben may have been working illegally as an immigrant or was breaking some employment law so he felt he had to cover it up. Did Greece even have much health and safety legislation on building sites back then?