Greece - Caroline Crouch, 20, Murdered, Athens, May 11, 2021

[Patrick Jane]

Clearly this story does not seem to add up, however we have to bank all our information from what we read in the news, which quite frankly almost always contains fabrication from the writer. Sky news, bbc news all of them are nothing short of fake news and are the “opinion” of the journalist rather than fact.

what does seem to be consistent is the police seem really sure what direction there going in. Im also shocked the girl has been buried so quickly.

Time will tell.

It is customary in the Greek Orthodox Church in Greece that burials take place within 24 hours after death. Of course, exceptions are made for exceptional circumstances, such as these. The victim here was buried after the authorities and the medical examiner had conducted the necessary investigations. However, it's not surprising that she would be buried right away once those investigations had been completed.

 

[Dotta]

It is customary in the Greek Orthodox Church in Greece that burials take place within 24 hours after death. Of course, exceptions are made for exceptional circumstances, such as these. The victim here was buried after the authorities and the medical examiner had conducted the necessary investigations. However, it's not surprising that she would be buried right away once those investigations had been completed.

The Muslims have the same rule as well.

 

[Legally Bland]

It is customary in the Greek Orthodox Church in Greece that burials take place within 24 hours after death. Of course, exceptions are made for exceptional circumstances, such as these. The victim here was buried after the authorities and the medical examiner had conducted the necessary investigations. However, it's not surprising that she would be buried right away once those investigations had been completed.

Would she likely be Greek Orthodox if her father is from the UK and her mother is from the Philippines?

 

[caylee17799]

Would she likely be Greek Orthodox if her father is from the UK and her mother is from the Philippines?

Both she and her parents have lived in Greece for quite some time, if not the majority of their lives. Maybe they converted to Greek Orthodox Christianity? Because they seemed to follow the Orthodox customs, and her funeral took place in a Greek Orthodox church.

 

[Legally Bland]

Both she and her parents have lived in Greece for quite some time, if not the majority of their lives. Maybe they converted to Greek Orthodox Christianity? Because they seemed to follow the Orthodox customs, and her funeral took place in a Greek Orthodox church.

I'll just stop here as a religious debate isn't really relevant. My fault for bringing it up.

 

[caylee17799]

I'll just stop here as a religious debate isn't really relevant. My fault for bringing it up.

Wait, what debate? You misunderstood me, I was just wondering if they converted, since you brought it up (and it was a legitimate question) , and because you asked how likely it was, I stated that they seemed to be following Greek Orthodox Christianity for the above mentioned reasons. I apologize if you felt that my words insulted you in any way.

 

[Legally Bland]

Wait, what debate? You misunderstood me, I was just wondering if they converted, since you brought it up (and it was a legitimate question) , and because you asked how likely it was, I stated that they seemed to be following Greek Orthodox Christianity for the above mentioned reasons. I apologize if you felt that my words insulted you in any way.

No, you didn't insult me in any way. I apologise if it seemed that way. Sometimes threads get derailed by race/religion/sexuality/politics. I worried my post may be taking the discussion in that direction.

I believe the vast majority of people who have suffered a loss would prefer a speedy farewell for their loved one. Religion doesn't really matter in this case. IMO.

 

[caylee17799]

No, you didn't insult me in any way. I apologise if it seemed that way. Sometimes threads get derailed by race/religion/sexuality/politics. I worried my post may be taking the discussion in that direction.

I believe the vast majority of people who have suffered a loss would prefer a speedy farewell for their loved one. Religion doesn't really matter in this case. IMO.

Oh, ok, I totally understand. It's really easy for writings to get misinterpreted, especially if potential cultural differences are involved. I was confused at first too, when I read that, in other countries, it could take days, or even weeks for a funeral/celebration of life/memorial service to take place. I I'm glad we sorted this out. Back on track.

 

[Silverlinging89]

I think we need to be careful about carelessly referring to criminals as “psychos” or “psychopaths”. That’s a medical diagnosis and the killer/s are more likely to just be plain bad.

IMO the age gap scenario is one of the less unpleasant things in all of this; on the surface at least B was respectful of C, “courting” her for two years, “waiting” until she finished school. Has anyone read any comments regarding the general state of their marriage? Have any friends been interviewed and mentioned any arguments or tension between them? Having a baby is a big strain!

I'm not carelessly referring to psychopaths at all, I've worked in forensic psychiatry units (and am a doctor!). There are elements in this murder that make one consider elevated risk of scoring on psychopathy criteria. Being raised in, or joining gangs, can indicate unstable childhood, or tendency towards violent urges, being the stooges sent in to torture and subdue victims - that's not financial fraud, suffocation which requires intimate and prolonged contact.....but for me, the biggest sign of what I suppose is anti social disorder/psychopathy is the dog...absolute red flag. Being particularly sadistic towards animals is almost always part of a personality disorder.

 

[Silverlinging89]

Oh and 5% of the population are technically psychopaths - just not all of them are violent: it's pretty common. In particular they have impaired connections to the alarm/fear centre of brain - amygdala - and feel little empathy or fear. They are often found in careers that rewards risk - banking, Law enforcement, gangs...

 

[musicaljoke]

Clearly this story does not seem to add up, however we have to bank all our information from what we read in the news, which quite frankly almost always contains fabrication from the writer. Sky news, bbc news all of them are nothing short of fake news and are the “opinion” of the journalist rather than fact.

Whoa! I'm fairly sure that the BBC and many others, would find your comment to be libellous.
https://www.bbc.com/editorialguidelines/guidelines

 

[Winterbells]

I guess it's possible the 'gang' didn't intend to kill CC. Putting cloth inside her mouth and tape to silence her screams is something I've seen in films - it's possible they didn't know they'd managed to suffocate her. I know it's been reported she was 'tortured' and of course, being tied up and gagged is torture, but I'm not sure if it's a fact that there was more, and worse? I'm saying this because we're expressing puzzlement about why they'd kill CC and not B, but is it possible they didn't think they'd killed anyone? Apart from the poor dog, of course

 

[MsMiniSleuth]

I am still wondering how, as reported, the husband allegedly used his nose to call police and a neighbour on his mobile because he was tied up?

I have just tried this and couldn't even open the phone as I couldn't swipe upwards! Anyone else managed it?

 

[Winterbells]

I am still wondering how, as reported, the husband allegedly used his nose to call police and a neighbour on his mobile because he was tied up?

I have just tried this and couldn't even open the phone as I couldn't swipe upwards! Anyone else managed it?

I can't even manage to unlock mine.
My daughter, however, has just managed to get as far as dialling a number, but not without holding her phone.

 

[MsMiniSleuth]

I can't even manage to unlock mine.
My daughter, however, has just managed to get as far as dialling a number, but not without holding her phone.

Exactly. And he was tied up, plus being in a highly agitated state after the experience.

 

[everybodhi]

I can't even manage to unlock mine.
My daughter, however, has just managed to get as far as dialling a number, but not without holding her phone.

If she puts a piece of duck tape on top of her nose I don’t think it will work.
I know screen touch won’t work with gloves unless you get gloves specifically designed for this purpose.
Edited to add: also cover her eyes.

 

[Kemug]

I suppose one possibility to consider (just a possiblity) is that B may have been in financial difficulties, and arranged for a "robbery" to happen as part of an insurance fraud. But the hirelings got out of hand, and now B is genuinely shocked, remorseful, feeling guilty, and heartbroken. JMO MOO

 

[Kemug]

I don't find the age gap worrying at all, having known and currently knowing quite a few couples with a largish age gap. All very happy in long-lasting marriages. Also, when the younger person is female, as is most likely the case, she is probably much more mature than a male of the same age.

 

[tayaway]

I don't find the age gap worrying at all, having known and currently knowing quite a few couples with a largish age gap. All very happy in long-lasting marriages. Also, when the younger person is female, as is most likely the case, she is probably much more mature than a male of the same age.

She wasn't a younger person, she was a child, a minor, for two years, until she turned 18. Babi, roughly 13 years older, nowhere near the same age, far more mature than either a girl or boy of 16, 'waited' until she was 18 to consummate the relationship. I grew up in a backwards, Canadian redneck hillbilly town, and all the kids called out a 25 year old male for dating one of our 16 or 17 year old classmates. Some cultures have a long way to go when it comes to relationships and power dynamics.

 

[Kitkat28]

If she puts a piece of duck tape on top of her nose I don’t think it will work.
I know screen touch won’t work with gloves unless you get gloves specifically designed for this purpose.
Edited to add: also cover her eyes.

Not to mention the fact it would all be irrelevant anyway if the phone was in his pocket or on a table at the other side of the room...