Greece - Caroline Crouch, 20, Murdered, Athens, May 11, 2021

[Tortoise]

String, or twine as caylee described, seems to be a very odd choice of binding.

 

[Tortoise]

"The heartbroken mother of a British woman murdered in Greece today told of her anguish, saying, 'there are no words that can express my pain'.

Speaking to MailOnline from her home on the Greek island of Alonissos where they buried her on Friday, she said: ‘So many people have spoken about Caroline and what a lovely person she was. But for me her death is too raw for me speak about her. I am sorry. I am not in a good place.’

[...]

The couple were planning to build their dream home on a plot of land in Drafi, a picturesque suburb of Athens, some 20 minutes away. Caroline also wanted to create a cat sanctuary there."

Detectives probing if robbers who killed British mother in Greece believed €100,000 was in the home | Daily Mail Online

 

[Patrick Jane]

Έγκλημα στα Γλυκά Νερά: Η συγκλονιστική κατάθεση του άντρα της Κάρολαϊν
Here is a more detailed statement from the husband that clarifies some things.

• The robbers entered after 4 am, from a window (the one pictured) at the back of the house, after destroying the camera. The blind was open, they removed the window pane, along with the frame. The window pane fell from a height of 1,50 m to the floor, but didn't break, so it didn't alert the owners. Then, they went to the ground floor, where they found the dog, a medium sized crossbreed one, which started barking and was heard by the neighbor. The article offers quite a graphic description of what they did to the dog, and I'm not sure I want to recap it, but it ends up with the dog hanging from the staircase (which was, by the way, inside the house, so it could not be seen/arise suspicions from outside).
• The couple and the baby were all sleeping at the attic together, and they didn't hear any noise, or the dog barking, until the robbers stormed into their room.
• He gives once more a description of the robbers, says two of them were taller, about 1.80 m, thin but with an athletic build and were the ones holding guns and wearing full-face masks. The third was shorter, about 1.70, wearing a balaclava and seemed to be the leader. It doesn't say that he was overweight, just that he was heavier than the others. Also, he wasn't holding a gun.
• He told them immediately where the money was (in a Monopoly box at the basement) and they started tying him up using twine. Hands and feet in the fetal position, the head as it has been described before (with duct tape covering everything from the neck above, minus nose, leaving a him the ability to see from one eye).
• He could hear them verbally threatening Caroline that they would kill the baby unless they told them where the money was, but couldn't see if they threatened anyone with a gun, as he was facing the floor.
• He lost consciousness multiple times, for up to 30 minutes at some point.
• While he was knocked out, the robbers tied his wife using a pair of trousers, but apparently she was putting up a fight, so one of them tied a shirt around her neck and covered her mouth and nose with his hand, causing her to suffocate, right next to her daughter.
• After the couple was incapacitated, they went down, stole 10000 from the Monopoly box, and then proceeded to ransack the basement, go to the first floor, from where they took jewelry, and return to the ground floor, from where they escaped, through the main door, at about 5.30-5.35 am.
• At about that time, the husband regained consciousness and, upon not hearing any noise, believed that the robbers had left and his wife was passed out. His phone was charging on the nightstand, but he managed to crawl there, throw it on the floor, and press the on/off button with his nose, turn it on, and then call 100 at 6.16 am. AFTER that, he called his neighbor, who also called the police for help, thinking, however, that he was having a stroke.
• The police, upon arriving and storming into the ground floor , found the dog hanging from the staircase and the entire mess the robbers had left behind, and figured something bad had happened. With their weapons drawn they went upstairs, and the first thing they saw was the wife's feet. They stated they saw the baby trying to wake her up. They took the baby, and then untied B, who immediately bended over his wife, whispered something to her, and started crying.

Wow! Great job, caylee. I can tell you all that this must have taken caylee a lot of time to make such a long translation.

 

[Silverlinging89]

Agree. They had to incapacitate the adults to search the house safely. They also had to silence them. Caroline fought, so was suffocated as also saw face. Not planned, but also, burglers no impulse control/compassion. B was tied up and duct taped. Tape does not make you deaf, it is neither occlusive nor thick enough. I dare say we can all still hear if we sellotape across parts of our ears/wear a beanie down over our ears.

I think it is impossible to underestimate the absolute uselessness of a feared/adrenaline brain. Witness accounts notoriously unreliable, let alone when in fear of life. Passing out/being unable to recall trauma is completely physiological and indeed common. A cold, logical memory of what happens whilst you are tied up and people hold a gun to your child/wife, probably isn't normal.

It says that none of them left the attic till they were both incapacitated (B-unconscious, C-dead) , so I presume two of them were tying him up, while the third was holding Caroline/the baby at gunpoint.
I guess the description from what they did to Caroline came from the autopsy report, not B himself, since he didn't find out she was dead until the police came, not while the murder took place. He probably could hear them threatening this family while they were taping his face/tying him up. And regarding the time he was knocked out, it could be an estimation, between Caroline's TOD (during which he was unconscious) and the time the robbers left, which is around the time he woke up. I'm not saying this is essentially the truth, just possible explanations.

 

[AmandaSkis]

I wonder whose dog it was. And what I mean is: did the dog belong to Caroline more than her husband?

 

[Dotta]

This crime is beyond disgusting As far as I remember huskies seldom bark.

 

[Frannie]

This is getting to look more and more like a B-movie. I won’t say anything about the husband because he is not a POI. I get erased too often but I find the whole situation surreal, too dramatic, he passes out, comes to, crawls to his phone, dials the phone with his nose not once but twice...... how did he manage to talk on the phone since he was supposedly gagged.
Are we going to have a BIG surprise at the end, an ah moment.

 

[Dotta]

Greek police: "We are exploring all options. Everything is still open" in the hunt of the killer... according to The Independent.

 

[Orgona]

...and his ears, because he could hear everything that went on..

If your entire head had been encased in duct tape, would there be missing hair or eyebrows, or maybe adhesive residue from removing it? How long was there between this happening and B appearing on TV?

MOO

I doubt the robbers would have made an effort not to cover B’s ears. If it wasn’t a thick tape he might still have been able to hear something.

I suppose it depends on the quality of the tape and how strongly would it stick into the hairy part of the head. As long as he can’t use his hands to pull the tape down from his face, even some not so strongly sticking tape would stay in place. Those might not have pulled out eyebrows and if pulled off with with caution it might have spared his hair too, unless B has really thin hair.

I would really love to know which kind of tape they used, how strong it was. He was definitely taped as police has seen it and they freed him of it.

All IMHO

 

[dotr]

rbbm.
Caroline Crouch murder: Greek police say ‘everything still open’ in hunt for killer and motive
''On Sunday police said a Georgian national arrested for trying to flee the country with a fake passport could be linked to the murder of Ms Crouch who is the daughter of a British couple who live on the Aegean island of Alonissos.''

''However, on Monday police seemed to shy away from the potential lead.

“We are exploring all options because everything is still open,” police spokesman Theodoros Chronopoulos told The Independent. “[We] yet to establish any direct link … with the so-called “Georgian connection.”

“After that,” he said, “they bound me with a piece of rope; hand and legs in embryonic position. And then they strapped my neck with duct tape. It was very tight. And then they covered my mouth and parts of my nose.”

Athens murder: Police probe if robbers may have killed Caroline Crouch in €100k search
''Police are now following leads that the group had somehow discovered that Mr Anagnostopolous had taken 100,000 euros (£86,300) from a Greek bank in order to make a land purchase.

However, it is believed the robbers did not know that the sale had gone through and the family no longer had the money at the time of the robbery.''

 

[Orgona]

rbbm.
Caroline Crouch murder: Greek police say ‘everything still open’ in hunt for killer and motive
''On Sunday police said a Georgian national arrested for trying to flee the country with a fake passport could be linked to the murder of Ms Crouch who is the daughter of a British couple who live on the Aegean island of Alonissos.''

''However, on Monday police seemed to shy away from the potential lead.

“We are exploring all options because everything is still open,” police spokesman Theodoros Chronopoulos told The Independent. “[We] yet to establish any direct link … with the so-called “Georgian connection.”

“After that,” he said, “they bound me with a piece of rope; hand and legs in embryonic position. And then they strapped my neck with duct tape. It was very tight. And then they covered my mouth and parts of my nose.”

Athens murder: Police probe if robbers may have killed Caroline Crouch in €100k search
''Police are now following leads that the group had somehow discovered that Mr Anagnostopolous had taken 100,000 euros (£86,300) from a Greek bank in order to make a land purchase.

However, it is believed the robbers did not know that the sale had gone through and the family no longer had the money at the time of the robbery.''

Re the green part : Again a slightly different version...

I can easily see €100,000 as a motive for a violent robbery.

ETA:
But in that case I as a robber would make sure they are alive until at least I checked out the place they said the money was. If they get killed before the money is found all the risk was for nothing.

 

[Vaccine]

So do the police have proof positive that the burglary gang exist? DNA, CCTV?

 

[Orgona]

So do the police have proof positive that the burglary gang exist? DNA, CCTV?

If we can believe MSM they do have DNA and might have CCTV

 

[Silverlinging89]

If we can believe MSM they do have DNA and might have CCTV

For me, it's that fact there have been other violent house invasions. If there hadn't been similar things, or a large amount of cash stashed in the house, you'd be suspicious right of the husband. But when there are other recent home invasions with a degree of similar violence, along with DNA evidence, and the husband is tied up - I mean we can still say it's a set up but equally it still involves a malicious third party.

without seeing pictures of how he was found it isn't especially possible to understand what wriggle room the husband had. I doubt they mummy bandaged him completely - too time consuming, it would have been a quick round and round wrAp without completely closed edge-edge tape. He could have been bound at wrist and ankle but had hands free-ish to wriggle tape. He could have dragged corner of tape off mouth on edge of bedroom cabinet for all we know. The neighbour did say she couldn't really understand him and thought he was having a stroke! I'm also not hugely convinced by nose accuracy, but I don't think it's impossible, especially when so desperate.

jury is out on this one IMO. Why, when other home invasions, is this not just another one? Wasn't planned killing, but they were clearly willing to point a gun at a defenceless baby, and willing to kill a dog to silence it rather than tape its muzzle. Same for C it's just horrific.

 

[Polly Graf]

Thanks for pointing this out, because that was also an error on my part. According to the statement he "pressed the button at the center of the screen with his nose (It doesn't say specifically home button, power button...), unlocked it and then was able to call 100". My own cellphone cannot be unlocked unless I press the power button that's on the side (something that, by the way, I can't do with my nose either), as there aren't any buttons on the screen, so I got confused and wrote that having my own phone in mind. Yes, his cellphone was obviously turned on, it just had to be unlocked.

Some new phones unlock by drawing a pattern on the screen with your fingertip (or nose), that would probably be easier than pressing the right numbers?!

 

[Kitkat28]

I doubt the robbers would have made an effort not to cover B’s ears. If it wasn’t a thick tape he might still have been able to hear something.

I suppose it depends on the quality of the tape and how strongly would it stick into the hairy part of the head. As long as he can’t use his hands to pull the tape down from his face, even some not so strongly sticking tape would stay in place. Those might not have pulled out eyebrows and if pulled off with with caution it might have spared his hair too, unless B has really thin hair.

I would really love to know which kind of tape they used, how strong it was. He was definitely taped as police has seen it and they freed him of it.

All IMHO

I was really being hyperbolic over the tape. With the descriptions given by the various reports, it sounded like B’s entire head had been wrapped in multiple layers of heavy industrial gaffer tape, leaving a tiny hole that he could see through and his nostrils free for breathing. In reality, I’m imagining it more like a strip over his eyes and another over his mouth, plus a whole lot of dramatic licence.

 

[Tortoise]

The husband of a British woman strangled to death by robbers in Greece has shared a touching tribute to her on Instagram.

"Together forever. Have a nice trip my love," he wrote in Greek.

Caroline Crouch: Husband of Brit murdered in front of daughter in Greece pays tribute and says they will be 'together forever'

 

[Orgona]

For me, it's that fact there have been other violent house invasions. If there hadn't been similar things, or a large amount of cash stashed in the house, you'd be suspicious right of the husband. But when there are other recent home invasions with a degree of similar violence, along with DNA evidence, and the husband is tied up - I mean we can still say it's a set up but equally it still involves a malicious third party.

without seeing pictures of how he was found it isn't especially possible to understand what wriggle room the husband had. I doubt they mummy bandaged him completely - too time consuming, it would have been a quick round and round wrAp without completely closed edge-edge tape. He could have been bound at wrist and ankle but had hands free-ish to wriggle tape. He could have dragged corner of tape off mouth on edge of bedroom cabinet for all we know. The neighbour did say she couldn't really understand him and thought he was having a stroke! I'm also not hugely convinced by nose accuracy, but I don't think it's impossible, especially when so desperate.

jury is out on this one IMO. Why, when other home invasions, is this not just another one? Wasn't planned killing, but they were clearly willing to point a gun at a defenceless baby, and willing to kill a dog to silence it rather than tape its muzzle. Same for C it's just horrific.

I agree this could be a homejacking just like the others mentioned in the press.
The knowledge they withdraw € 100,000 and the robbers might have thought the money could be still in the house would seem like a strong motive.
The problems are the ever evolving details, which could be bad reporting and things lost or vervormd in translation. Not because of our members are not making an excellent effort (they really are!) but because many times one can’t find an expression exactly the same in the target language and changes in nuances could lead to changes in interpretation. Add to this some bad reporting and here we are.

 

[everybodhi]

I don’t want to go against TOS and appear to be victim blaming but it just doesn’t make sense at all!!!! Even moreso than before:....

Based on your background as a criminal investigator and, if I remember correctly, also a student of psychology, I respect your seemingly strong opinion on this, a lot.

 

[Kitkat28]

How are these criminal gangs finding out about people having large amounts of money for building projects? Maybe the police should investigate bank staff and find out if someone is tipping the robbers off to large cash withdrawals.

MOO