Greece - Caroline Crouch, 20, Murdered, Athens, May 11, 2021

[caylee17799]

my summary and translation:

The Georgian suspect denies any involvement. Forensics results are not yet in. The Georgian is being interrogated by both the homicide and robbery units of the police. There are many similarities in the modus operandi between this case and a prior case in the same region in March*.

*I've seen other Greek media reports that the police have DNA for this suspect in regards to the prior case, but he denies any involvement in that case, even though the police have the DNA evidence. Thus police are skeptical of his denials in this case and suspect he may be involved in this case, and even if he's not involved directly, that at a minimum he may know persons involved in this case.

We don't know if the same people are involved in the two robberies, but damn, those men are vicious... Beating defenseless victims, women, elderly couples, threatening to kill innocent babies... It broke my heart hearing that poor old man describing how they kept beating him, to the point of him bleeding, to force him to talk...it made me wanna go hug my own grandpa tight! I hope they catch and lock them all up, although, unfortunately, my faith in the Greek justice system is practically non-existent...

 

[Orgona]

I wonder when the suspects wrapped the husband’s face in tape. I guess this was after he told them where the money was hidden?

Then the suspects believed that there was more money somewhere.

So they wrap the husband’s face, making him unable to potentially tell them where more money is.

Yep, hopefully that’s the last thing they did before leaving, because with no eyesight it’s difficult to go and show them where the rest of the money is and with covered mouth is difficult to say it too.

 

[Silverlinging89]

The tape is just to stop him screaming surely. If they wanna go back and ask more they can just pull it off and ask.

 

[Orgona]

The tape is just to stop him screaming surely. If they wanna go back and ask more they can just pull it off and ask.

You might think, except according to news reports B has had tape on him from the neck up secured so tight he lost consciousness several times, the longest for half an hour. That doesn’t sound to me like just some tape on his mouth to stop him from screaming.
According to him (and LE?) only his nose was left out and could see something somehow through an opening at one eye. I imagine they were suggesting the robbers made a mistake while taping at one eye.

 

[caylee17799]

You might think, except according to news reports B has had tape on him from the neck up secured so tight he lost consciousness several times, the longest for half an hour. That doesn’t sound to me like just some tape on his mouth to stop him screaming.
According to him (and LE?) only his nose was left out and could see something somehow through an opening at one eye. I imagine they were suggesting the robbers made a mistake while taping at one eye.

Exactly, if you want to have quick access to possible additional information about money etc, you simply tape the person's mouth and eyes, not his entire head. Unless they wanted to kill him. But that also makes zero sense, both because robbers don't usually murder their victims (but, since they did, in this case, I guess that argument doesn't apply) and also time-wise. Furthermore, I can think of about 100 better ways to purposefully kill a struggling grown man, than turning him into a half-mummy.

 

[Silverlinging89]

See I don't think you mummy bandage someone's head in a fight with closed edge to edge like 30 strips. You just wrap a couple of times round someone's mouth and over the eyes. Nose is easily left out in middle. When struggling and fighting not enough oxygen (as using it fast!) then when gone limp and not using oxygen/muscles, the flow rate enough to recover. I don't personally find the tape thing suspicious in any way, but open to anything!

You might think, except according to news reports B has had tape on him from the neck up secured so tight he lost consciousness several times, the longest for half an hour. That doesn’t sound to me like just some tape on his mouth to stop him from screaming.
According to him (and LE?) only his nose was left out and could see something somehow through an opening at one eye. I imagine they were suggesting the robbers made a mistake while taping at one eye.

 

[Orgona]

@Silverlinging89
That’s not what the reports are saying. Sounds like his head was wrapped around.

Greece - Caroline Crouch, 20, Murdered, Athens, May 11, 2021

Post #325

• He told them immediately where the money was (in a Monopoly box at the basement) and they started tying him up using twine. Hands and feet in the fetal position, the head as it has been described before (with duct tape covering everything from the neck above, minus nose, leaving a him the ability to see from one eye).

This wasn’t the first post mentioned in either.

 

[Silverlinging89]

That's what your interpretation is - my interpretation of the reports was that tape was wrapped tightly round his mouth and neck (like wrapping a ball) - that's what reduces oxygen - tape around your orifice, not around your cheek, and then over his eyes, with a gap for his nose. Personally I don't imagine they completely enclosed his head with tape, no point and time consuming. Anyway really doesn't matter we will find out more info over next few days about what happened.

 

[Orgona]

Any news today in Greece about this case?

 

[caylee17799]

Any news today in Greece about this case?

Personally, I only took a quick look today, but the most recent update I could find was about the Georgian man being questioned and denying any involvement, as well as B being called to the police station for a possible identification procedure. But those were reported yesterday, today I've not heard anything new from the local press.

 

[Dotta]

If people live in a house they should invest in really good security system. Some systems are connected to security agencies and some directly to the police. Movement sensors are a must, they should activate sirens that would wake up the dead. Other thing - how come was it so easy to remove glass from the window? There should be bars on ground floor windows. I couldn't sleep a wink if my home wasn' t secure. I mean - it is obviously an expensive house turned into a death trap. Security is the most important thing. Where was a high fence? Anybody could just come to this house's back door. Shudders!!!!

 

[Patrick Jane]

If people live in a house they should invest in really good security system. Some systems are connected to security agencies and some directly to the police. Movement sensors are a must, they should activate sirens that would wake up the dead. Other thing - how come was it so easy to remove glass from the window? There should be bars on ground floor windows. I couldn't sleep a wink if my home wasn' t secure. I mean - it is obviously an expensive house turned into a death trap. Security is the most important thing. Where was a high fence? Anybody could just come to this house's back door. Shudders!!!!

I agree about the security system. As for other security measures, I think they were probably leasing this maisonette because we heard about how they recently bought a plot of land. If they were leasing, they'd be limited in what they could do.

One of the early video reports showed how there was no fence protecting the property from access from the empty lot.

In my opinion this was the biggest security problem. Thieves in Greece love to access properties from empty lots because they can do so virtually unseen. In Greece empty lots frequently have a lot of "wild" vegetation which provides the thieves with cover.

According to that early video report, the aluminum security shutter, covering the rear window which the thieves entered from, was broken, and that's why it remained open that night.

 

[Dotta]

Empty lots! Golden State Killer took advantage of them! Im a security freak and I wouldn't live in such a place even for free.

 

[jenn83]

So maybe someone wanted to do a copycat of the other previous robberies so it wouldn't look suspicious? Just a thought.

 

[Dotta]

So maybe someone wanted to do a copycat of the other previous robberies so it wouldn't look suspicious? Just a thought.

We are on the same wavelength

 

[caylee17799]

Other thing - how come was it so easy to remove glass from the window? There should be bars on ground floor windows.

I read that they didn't just remove the glass, but also the frame with it (and they did that easily, apparently... don't know how).

As for other security measures, I think they were probably leasing this maisonette because we heard about how they recently bought a plot of land. If they were leasing, they'd be limited in what they could do.

Yes, I think you're correct about the leasing. Regarding that, I can see a landlord not allowing them to place bars on the windows, but an alarm system? Obviously it's up to the agreement between the two parties. I'm fairly sure my friend had one installed in her apartment when she was renting as a student. But, still, I cannot imagine someone refusing basic security measures to whomever leases their property, especially considering the size of the house, the empty lot right next to it, the area being quiet and not as populated etc

 

[Dotta]

I read that they didn't just remove the glass, but also the frame with it (and they did that easily, apparently... don't know how).

Yes, I think you're correct about the leasing. Regarding that, I can see a landlord not allowing them to place bars on the windows, but an alarm system? Obviously it's up to the agreement between the two parties. I'm fairly sure my friend had one installed in her apartment when she was renting as a student. But, still, I cannot imagine someone refusing basic security measures to whomever leases their property, especially considering the size of the house, the empty lot right next to it, the area being quiet and not as populated etc

Besides I dont think any insurance company would allow such negligence. If you want insurance against theft you must provide adequate security.

 

[Patrick Jane]

I read that they didn't just remove the glass, but also the frame with it (and they did that easily, apparently... don't know how).

Yes, I think you're correct about the leasing. Regarding that, I can see a landlord not allowing them to place bars on the windows, but an alarm system? Obviously it's up to the agreement between the two parties. I'm fairly sure my friend had one installed in her apartment when she was renting as a student. But, still, I cannot imagine someone refusing basic security measures to whomever leases their property, especially considering the size of the house, the empty lot right next to it, the area being quiet and not as populated etc

Yes, I meant that for sure they could put in a security system, but I wonder about the other things. For example, did the landlord take a long time to fix the broken aluminum security shutter? Did the landlord balk at putting in a fence because it was "too expensive" or "not needed?" I don't know, I'm just speculating. But, my point is that when you lease you may have more limited options than when you are the homeowner.

 

[caylee17799]

Yes, I meant that for sure they could put in a security system, but I wonder about the other things. For example, did the landlord take a long time to fix the broken aluminum security shutter? Did the landlord balk at putting in a fence because it was "too expensive" or "not needed?" I don't know, I'm just speculating. But, my point is that when you lease you may have more limited options than when you are the homeowner.

Yes, these are some questions that, although not crucial to solving the crime, must be answered... You were totally on point!

 

[caylee17799]

Γλυκά Νερά: «Γίνονται έρευνες σε πολλά μέτωπα, υπάρχουν στοιχεία», λέει ο σύζυγος της Καρολάιν
The article itself doesn't say much, but in the video, a police reporter is talking about what's been puzzling the authorities, the fact that there doesn't appear to be any CCTV footage or cellphone activity of the robbers, and that forensic evidence collected from the house is "minimal". He says that there could be important developments and/or twists in the case in the days to come. I'll post a more detailed translation later.