Greece - Caroline Crouch, 20, Murdered, Athens, May 11, 2021

[caylee17799]

This case gives me chills! RIP sweet Caroline! This crime seems so personal. I mean "professional" burglars operate quickly, they observe the house in order to avoid inhabitants. And if the family is sleeping, the criminals work soudlessly. Is the deranged, psychopatic gang running loose in Athens? Or was it a hit on the wife? Greek police must work really hard because public is scared and media are watching closely. I also dont understand the statement from the police that some members of a gang, obviosly a different one, have been under observation for 3 years. So they operated for such a long time without being arrested?

It seems like this particular gang (assuming the police are on the right track with this one) specifically attacks when the owners are at home, in order to force them to reveal where they hide their valuables.
Edit: But I agree that the way they killed her makes me think of a personal crime, rather than a random one, unless of course we're talking about a gang of sadistic psychos that takes pleasure in brutally torturing the female victims of their robberies to death.

 

[Dotta]

Another thing - suppose I stash lots of money in the house - so the first thing I do is equip the house with the best alarm system I can find (movement sensors, etc) connected directly to the police. Not to mention hidden cameras in each room.

 

[caylee17799]

Another thing - suppose I stash lots of money in the house - so the first thing I do is equip the house with the best alarm system I can find (movement sensors, etc) connected directly to the police. Not to mention hidden cameras in each room.

You are absolutely right. I mean, I live in an small apartment, in a suburb that's considered relatively quiet and safe, and I don't have any valuables, but you bet I've taken every security measure available out there. Unfortunately many people don't take their safety seriously enough, until the point something actually happens to them. Especially if them stashing money at home was a one-time thing, and not a habit of theirs, I can see them thinking "Well, what are the possibilities of something happening?".

 

[Dotta]

If this was indeed "one time having lots of money at home" case - so it indicates that the gang had internal info about it. If the gang robbery really happened I mean.

 

[Lord Peter Flimsy]

I haven’t read this case fully but already it sounds a little like the infamous Jeffrey R MacDonald case. A number of things simply don’t add up.

 

[Dotta]

I haven’t read this case fully but already it sounds a little like the infamous Jeffrey R MacDonald case. A number of things simply don’t add up.

I also read about a Sydney banker who organised a home attack - his wife lying next to him in bed was shot in the head Another case - Texan Bart Whittaker staged a home robbery where his mother and brother were shot and father miraciously survived. Bart asked his friend who carried the attack to shoot him in the arm to deflect suspicions. But he ended on Death Row as the master mind of this horrific plot. Mind you, the father begged the governor for mercy for his son and eventually Bart was given pardon and he serves life in solitary.

 

[heartyhound]

Grief-stricken mother of British woman murdered in Greek home by gang of robbers prays at graveside | Daily Mail Online

Apparently Babis has returned to Athens with baby Lydia already. Is it me or does the funeral and his detachment/leaving so soon seem rather strange?

 

[TootsieFootsie]

The words unseemly haste come to my mind.

 

[Skigh]

Grief-stricken mother of British woman murdered in Greek home by gang of robbers prays at graveside | Daily Mail Online

Apparently Babis has returned to Athens with baby Lydia already. Is it me or does the funeral and his detachment/leaving so soon seem rather strange?

Perhaps family and friends were asking him some questions he did not want to answer so has hurried away.

 

[Orgona]

Grief-stricken mother of British woman murdered in Greek home by gang of robbers prays at graveside | Daily Mail Online

Apparently Babis has returned to Athens with baby Lydia already. Is it me or does the funeral and his detachment/leaving so soon seem rather strange?

Staying there any longer won’t bring back CC. I have no problem with going back fast. Maybe he wants to make life as normal as possible for the baby and thinks the baby won’t remember what happened there.

I’m not sure in his place I would want to live in that house any longer, but I’m a woman.
He could have installed state of the art surveillance and security system already or would want to stay close to CC by being where he can feel her presence.

 

[Cryptic]

also according to the report,
the murderer is around 30 yrs old, dark, 1.72 meters tall (5.64 feet), and overweight.

They were also identified as being non Greek. Are there any tells on how the word 'dark' is used in Greece to determine how dark his complection was and possible ethnicity?

For example, would Greeks use the word 'dark' to describe the complection of most Albanians, Georgians and Armenians? Or, is the term more associated with say most Middle Easterners and say, Pakistanis or Bengalis?

 

[caylee17799]

The word used in Greek was "μελαμψος", which I would interpret as having slightly dark skin and hair. I've heard people use this word to describe many different ethnic groups, such as gypsies, (some) Armenians, Pakistanis, Syrians, etc, so I can't tell for sure just by this description what the perp's ethnicity could possibly be.

 

[Dotta]

When I saw the pic of the house in Daily Mail I was surprised it was a semi-detached one. I wonder what the neighbours heard. I mean it is practically 1 house divided by a wall. I would definitely change accommodation.

 

[Dotta]

They were also identified as being non Greek. Are there any tells on how the word 'dark' is used in Greece to determine how dark his complection was and possible ethnicity?

For example, would Greeks use the word 'dark' to describe the complection of most Albanians, Georgians and Armenians? Or, is the term more associated with say most Middle Easterners and say, Pakistanis or Bengalis?

A foreign psychotic gang.... Hmm. I wonder if local mafia/criminal kingpins would allow foreign gangs run loose. As a capital city Athens is probably divided into spheres of interest by local criminals. They must be livid with all media attention and police scrutiny right now haha. The money reward is a brilliant move by authorities - if nothing works, the lure of money always succeeds.

 

[tayaway]

Grief-stricken mother of British woman murdered in Greek home by gang of robbers prays at graveside | Daily Mail Online

Apparently Babis has returned to Athens with baby Lydia already. Is it me or does the funeral and his detachment/leaving so soon seem rather strange?

Could Babis have gone back so soon because the LE have him on a short leash, or maybe for his own safety, given that he's seen the killer's face? I don't understand why he didn't leave their daughter with one of her grandmums. Maybe taking her gives him comfort? I just wonder, IMO, if I was in such grief, could I take care of myself, let alone the little one. Who will help him take care of her back home?

Lots of red flags on their relationship. From the article, BBM:

"Caroline and Babis met on Alonnisos five years ago at a religious procession to celebrate Good Friday.

They struck up a conversation while they walked through the island’s streets following the religious icon which symbolises Jesus Christ before his ascension to heaven.

A friend said: ‘Their eyes met and it was love at first sight. Caroline was only 16 but Babis fell head over heels in love.

‘He was a helicopter pilot and charming. Babis would to the island from Athens just to spend a couple of hours with Caroline.

‘They courted for two years until she was 18. And they married soon after she graduated from school.’"

MOO: A well traveled older man falling in love on first sight? Red flag. Charming = giant red flag. Going that extraordinary mile in the beginning, like flying there for a few hours? Red Flag. Waited until she turned 18 to consummate the relationship? Red flag. Made it official after she graduated from highschool? Red flag.

ETA: I'm commenting on their odd relationship, not claiming anything about what happened to CC.

 

[Dotta]

And also her going to university meeting lots of young people her age. She was blossoming as a woman and a mother - possibly freeing herself from his possessive influence. And by the way, what is it with Babis as a name for an adult man? Is it a diminutive? Sounds fit for a toddler. JMO

 

[Mrs Marple]

Grief-stricken mother of British woman murdered in Greek home by gang of robbers prays at graveside | Daily Mail Online

Apparently Babis has returned to Athens with baby Lydia already. Is it me or does the funeral and his detachment/leaving so soon seem rather strange?

Not sure, could be cultural differences.

 

[Satchie]

The word used in Greek was "μελαμψος", which I would interpret as having slightly dark skin and hair. I've heard people use this word to describe many different ethnic groups, such as gypsies, (some) Armenians, Pakistanis, Syrians, etc, so I can't tell for sure just by this description what the perp's ethnicity could possibly be.

I think in this case it is not being used as a code to describe a country of origin, but the actual appearance of a single person.

I would assume the person has black or dark brown hair and a darker skin tone (which could just be a tan in visible areas), and dark coloured eyes.

This would be in contrast to, for eg, a blond person with pale skin and blue eyes, who would, in the past, have been (in English) described as 'fair'.

You can have fair or dark Greeks, Albanians, Georgians, Romanii, etc. They are all Caucasion.

 

[Ellmau]

And also her going to university meeting lots of young people her age. She was blossoming as a woman and a mother - possibly freeing herself from his possessive influence. And by the way, what is it with Babis as a name for an adult man? Is it a diminutive? Sounds fit for a toddler. JMO

Apparently it's a common diminutive for Charalambous: Babis, Male Name in Greece Babis (greek-names.info)

 

[Dotta]

Apparently it's a common diminutive for Charalambous: Babis, Male Name in Greece Babis (greek-names.info)

Well, his name is a real tongue twister and mouthful haha Ok, I will stick to B. (one capital letter)